WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #4

[Babyslims]

MY BOLD

I read here (somewhere - forgive me; it's very late) that he could have recently lost up to 40 lbs.

Yes, I read that on quite a few of the pages I found online for Lyle. I'm just curious how they know it was recent weightloss vs him just wearing oversized clothing due to the style back then.

 

[glorybug]

I am sure that Lyle has been reported as missing somewhere. Probably the information just isn't matching up, or some error was made as far as the reporting.

I think CCMs description of the belt he used explains the weight loss. He said that each of the holes in the belt had been used, meaning that he had lost weight over time. I have belts like that, and it would be logical to assume I had lost weight over time and continued to use the same belt. Well, except that I had actually gained weight, lol. Belts from after my pregnancies would prove I'd lost weight.

For his height, 180 is not that big. 140 is pretty thin.

 

[outofthedark]

I'd like to comment on some of the posts on this thread.

I am Potowatomi, Blackfoot and Ukrainian. Although it is not supposedly politically correct, most 'Native Americans' that I know, including myself, my tribes and my family, call ourselves Indian. So, that's the term I'm going to use here.

From my personal experience, suicide is not a mortal sin, and the only Indians I have heard about possibly shunning any family members for commiting it lived on the res. The majority of all Indians do not live on the res. Indians drink, do drugs and kill themselves at the same rate as any other nationality, myths aside. In fact, my own younger brother comitted suicide 10 years ago by hanging- we talk about it often. If he had done it in an anonymous motel room, we would want to know about it.

My brother was also bisexual. It is also a myth that Indians don't tolerate different sexualities. In fact, many of the tribes were actively supporting the bill allowing gay marriage in California a couple of years ago. Being Indian and gay would be no more reason to kill yourself than being any other nationality.

Unless Lyle was originally from the area, or had visited there before, there would be no reason for him to travel there to commit suicide, especially if his tribe was not from the area. There is no universal 'spiritual place' that all Indians agree is the best place to kill yourself. Also, most Indians have been culturally indoctinated into either Christianity or Catholicism, so they would be more concerned about that angle than the 'Great Spirit'. It's a romatic thought, but not realistic.

I have read "You Must Remember This" several times. I also identified with the Lyle character, yet I am not male, and do not have experience with molestation. Sometimes a book is just a book. Using the character name as an alias does not mean they were molested, not a molestor.

I have read all of Joyce Carol Oates books. Several people made comments that only women read her books, and therefore it's likely that Lyle was gay. What is more likely is that all it proves is that he was college educated. Several of her books were gifts to me by male suitors, who were not gay, they were just educated, well-read and liked good literature.
__________________________

That said, some other things about the case-

I think that CCM said that Lyle stayed in the first motel room long enough to take a shower? It is unlikely he would take a shower and then put on dirty, travelled-in clothing. He probably changed into clean clothing. Nothing was found in the second room except for a toothbush and toothpaste, yet he had his hair slicked back. Where was the comb? The front desk thought he might have had a backpack, and he probably did.

It's likely that he wrote the note and money in the room, then packed his stuff up and took a walk to get rid of it. Doesn't need to be thrown in a lake. With a trailer park and a motel, and possibly other businesses, it would be easy to dispose of.

There was probably no reason to use the name Lyle Stevik other than that the name popped into his head as an alias. The fact that he mis-spelled it hints that he hadn't given it much thought otherwise- if it had important meaning, he would not have mis-spelled it. My father taught architecture for 30 years, and I agree with some who say his handwriting did not look like drafting handwriting. However, it does show education, because it is very similar. The handwriting on the desk envelope does not look confident. meaning that although the address and state match, he didn't fluidly write his name, address, town, state and zip automatically, as most people do. The clerk filled in the town where he skipped it. So, he has the address memorized, but hasn't written it often. Also, the handwriting is sloppier and more disorganized. It is likely that he knew the address because he'd been there or lived in the town before, rather than just a lucky guess.

Anyone who reads Joyce Carol Oates books would not need to practice how to spell suicide, so I agree with CCM that it was probably a note he aborted.

Obviously, Lyle got some sort of advance info on how to suicide efficiently, but his method does not match that described by 'Steven' on the website. He may have seen the website, though. One thing that is clear, is that this was a very considerate person. To make sure that the room was paid, that it was clean, and that he did not make a mess says they were very conscientious and that he was very methodical about it. That is pretty unusual. My brother was not as considerate, and he'd obviously not read up on how to go about it.

His 'pacing' along the road likely was nothing more than a way to kill time. I don't recall reading that there was a tv in the room? He'd already read the small-town paper, and probably had a time set in his mind. What else was he to do?

Other than as identifying info, the weight loss seems insignificant, especially since he continued to wear the same clothing and belt as before, much as many people who lose weight (including myself) do. Maybe he lost weight due to depression, maybe not. It doesn't seem to have any relevance on the issue, other than in helping to identify him if someone may recognize him heavier.

It is possible he killed himself in reaction to a loss from 9-11. Once again, conjecture about this doesn't matter, since it won't help identify him.

Some posts have said he could not be hispanic or Indian because they are not tall enough. I beg to differ. I have relatives who are over 6 foot, and my fiance is Spanish and is 6ft2. However, I think he appears to be Indian. Based on the fact that he looks Indian/white, and Northern Indians are taller, I'd guess he could be from a tribe that is Northern. that could be from that area, up into Canada, or from back east up near Canada. There are a lot of tribes up there that are a mix of Indian and French, or as in my case, Indian and Ukrainian.

The fact that his teeth were described as near-perfect, as in- had had braces- leads me to believe he was not from a res. My guess, especially from the hygeine and hands is that this person was a college student and/or an office worker.

Although I understand some of the things that were not followed up on might be frustrating, this was not a homicide, it was a suicide, and it sounds like the investigation was pretty thorough for that. I have been really impressed reading these threads as to the amount of detail CCM remembers, and the amount of work he has put into identifying this person. The most likely way this person will be identified is not through the little amount of evidence there is, but through identification from someone who knew him, meaning that his picture needs to be more widely circulated.

Sorry to put all these opinions in one post, but I have been reading here for 3 years, and this is the first time I have posted.

OMG, how come I can't come up with anything this insightful?

 

[glorybug]

I really wasn't trying to say I had anything insightful to say, as in, something that would really crack this case and give Lyle his name back. I really wish I could do that.

What I did want to do was correct what I consider to be misconceptions about Indian people, gay people, and people who commit suicide. That's really all I've been able to contribute after having followed this story for years.

Believe me, I wish I had something more helpful to contribute.

 

[one_girl_rev]

OMG, how come I can't come up with anything this insightful?

I've been lurking the Lyle thread for years... and that was one of the best contributions I've read. Thorough, concise, and so well written. I feel like I have a new understanding of the mystery.

 

[glorybug]

Well, thank you. Obviously I thought the reaction was meant to be sarcastic, so I do apologize for being defensive.

Like I said, I have been readin other people's comments and ideas here for about 3 years, so I've had 3 years to sort it through in my head. I think CCM did a very good job with what he had to work with. It is kind of personal for me, because as I said, I am Indian, and my younger brother killed himself by hanging- and he was bisexual, so a lot of the elements that people have brought up hit a note with me.

That said, after more thought, I really wonder if perhaps Lyle's identity is not being found specifically because his case has been give the name 'Lyle Stebik', and it's likely nobody in his family or friends had any indication that he identified with a character from a Joyce Carol Oates book. I tend to think he really didn't identify with that character, he just used it as an anonymous sign-in name, possibly because he'd recently read the book. He didn't identify well enough with it to spell it right.

Not a lot of people read JCO, so if people were searching these or other forums and came across the name 'Lyle Stebik', they might just skip over it because they KNOW their friend/relative/coworker was NOT named Lyle Stebik. Even if you had read the book, if you were missing a person who looked like him, you'd pass over this thread, because he does not resemble the person in the book.

I know people like to assign names to cases because it seems so cold and impersonal not to, but I really wonder what might happen if this case was re-presented as something like 'Unidentified Indian male' or "Native American male' or 'possible Native American or Hispanic Male', or even some other name reflecting the name of the area he committed suicide in (not the name of the motel) or perhaps something about Meridian.

Just a thought. Maybe if another thread was opened to reflect that, it might draw other interest?

 

[rsorcha]

Well, thank you. Obviously I thought the reaction was meant to be sarcastic, so I do apologize for being defensive.

Like I said, I have been readin other people's comments and ideas here for about 3 years, so I've had 3 years to sort it through in my head. I think CCM did a very good job with what he had to work with. It is kind of personal for me, because as I said, I am Indian, and my younger brother killed himself by hanging- and he was bisexual, so a lot of the elements that people have brought up hit a note with me.

That said, after more thought, I really wonder if perhaps Lyle's identity is not being found specifically because his case has been give the name 'Lyle Stebik', and it's likely nobody in his family or friends had any indication that he identified with a character from a Joyce Carol Oates book. I tend to think he really didn't identify with that character, he just used it as an anonymous sign-in name, possibly because he'd recently read the book. He didn't identify well enough with it to spell it right.

Not a lot of people read JCO, so if people were searching these or other forums and came across the name 'Lyle Stebik', they might just skip over it because they KNOW their friend/relative/coworker was NOT named Lyle Stebik. Even if you had read the book, if you were missing a person who looked like him, you'd pass over this thread, because he does not resemble the person in the book.

I know people like to assign names to cases because it seems so cold and impersonal not to, but I really wonder what might happen if this case was re-presented as something like 'Unidentified Indian male' or "Native American male' or 'possible Native American or Hispanic Male', or even some other name reflecting the name of the area he committed suicide in (not the name of the motel) or perhaps something about Meridian.

Just a thought. Maybe if another thread was opened to reflect that, it might draw other interest?

My bolding...can we maybe change the name of the entire section to UID Native Male instead of Lyle Stevick? That might help

 

[outofthedark]

I think that changing the board name could confuse people. UID Native Male/Unidentified Native American male could refer to anybody.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[akashana]

One thing that I have recently been mulling over is that given the attention to detail Lyle gave to remaining anonymous, he may have had (to him) really good reasons for his ending his life, and for doing so anonymously. I cannot personally articulate a reason for an anonymous suicide, but I am grateful that I am not limited by my own articulation/imagination. I struggle with doing him the disservice of undoing his hard work posthumously.

And yet I feel for his family and friends. This case has affected me more than any other missing persons case. Lyle very closely resembles a deceased (gay) friend of mine who was Venezuelan. Lyle was a good-looking man who appears to be in the prime of his life. As glorybug so eloquently pointed out, he appears educated and not impoverished. What I really wish we could do is turn back time and reach out to him, make him see that there is a way out, a better day ahead. Of course - sigh - that's not possible . . .

I know this post is pointless, but if I am to remain a contributor of this thread, I had to vent.

 

[glorybug]

I agree that there are people who have a right to anonymously kill themselves. In theory.

With my brother, I know why he killed himself, but I would, never, ever tell anyone else why. I'm glad that I found out he'd killed himself. He could have chosen to do it anonymously, and I never would have known. I am probably the only person who knows why he did it, and I will never tell anyone what that reason is.

That's why I have said here that the why doesn't really matter. What matters is that the family knows that they are gone. They need to have their name given back.

I was not suggesting that this thread close, I was suggesting that another thread open with a name other than Lyle Stevik. Any person searching for their native american or hispanic lost family member will pass this thread over, because the name 'Lyle Stevic' first of all already gives a name, erroneously, and secondly, doesn't sound Indian or hispanic.

Just my opinion.

 

[Stephani]

Which character? Gaear? http://www.ugo.com/therush/images/character_studies/gaear-grimsrud-162/image.jpg

Love that movie.

Sorry, my mother in law passed away, so I haven't had much time to check on Lyle's case. No, not him. Love that movie too! I cannot for the life of me remember the character's name right now...but the mechanic at the dealership that beats up Steve Buscemi's character. I saw him and just thought, wow, that guy reminds me of Lyle.

As far as utilizing a fake name for this gentleman on this forum, I do agree that it may be misleading to folks who may be looking for him, so maybe something else should be figured out. I agree that this thread shouldn't be closed though.

 

[MargotKidder]

I think that Lyle Stevik is just fine. I have an arab friend whom everyone thinks is hispanic. I have hispanic friends whom people think are white. Unless someone does a scientific DNA mapping, to confirm his heritage, I think sticking with Lyle Stevik would be appropriate. If you change it to another search term because we "think" he may be one race or another, it could stop other people searching for him from finding him.

 

[rsorcha]

Would it be possible to change the name of the thread to " "Lyle Stevik" "...like, add the quotes around his name to maybe clarify that it is not his real name? It might make people not just pass him over

 

[MargotKidder]

Yes, I like that....even "Lyle Stevik"--Unidentified male suicide victim--it is specific enough about his circumstances, but broad enough for someone to look into his case.

 

[akashana]

I see the point behind changing it, and I understand the resistance. I would fully support multiple, or even better, linked headings. This is a solveable case. The right people have not yet seen these pictures.

I think a media campaign, both using the name "Lyle Ste(b)ik" and physical descriptions, would be most effective.

I have no idea how to launch something of that nature. But I am good at taking direction.

 

[glorybug]

Yeah, I'm not so much worried about the nationality issue as much as that if the UID appears to actually be named Lyle. If I were searching for my family member and came across this thread, I'd pass it over, since I'd know their name was not Lyle. Plus, isn't the last name eastern european (fair), and not very descriptive physically of this UID?

Is it possible to keep this thread and then start a new one with all the same info, but without a specific name... and then link the threads?

 

[Stephani]

I was thinking about Lyle last night while waiting to fall asleep. I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I recall the info stating that he arrived on a bus. Two buses came in at roughly the same time one from the south and one from the north. I am thinking that maybe he came on the bus from the south because of the Meridian, ID address he gave (I looked at a map of the locations mentioned in his missing persons case and believe that Meridian would be south of Quinault)...maybe he had been traveling and consistently remembered and reported his address as the last address of a hotel/motel he stayed at. Maybe he traveled across the country as one last trip, maybe he traveled for work.

As for why he would want to remain unknown in death...it is possible someone, his family, would profit from an insurance policy, but obviously not if he committed suicide. It is possible they knew of what he intended to do and simply followed procedure to declare him missing and eventually legally deceased because that is what they knew he wanted them to do. It could be that they threw off an investigation into his being missing by giving vague or false information. I also mentioned before that he may have been a high profile individual from where ever he came from or was from a well known family and did not want to bring any kind of shame upon them. I appreciate that he did take so much consideration and planning to remain unknown and we probably shouldn't undo his work...it's just so hard to not want to find out who he is.

 

[Stephani]

Oh, I was thinking too...Quinault Lake is obviously in Quinault and it looks very large, I'm sure it's beautiful. You just never know, maybe that was one place he truly felt at peace and thought it was a beautiful place to end his life...he had to have been there before. I don't think it was a random selection, although it could have been.

 

[outofthedark]

Plus, isn't the last name eastern european (fair), and not very descriptive physically of this UID?

I believe "Stevik" is a Scandinavian surname. I put it in the search engine on Facebook and pulled up some users from Scandinavian countries.

 

[cymster]

Hi...I live in Norway, and we looked up Stevik in the phone directory....not a one! I would have guessed Eastern Europe, rather than Scandinavian...but my husband said it could be possible, but prolly uncommon.