WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[Malkmus]

It is news in the sense that the Judge's report and reasoning for the decision has been released. The report confirms that the court believes that more than one person was involved in the murder. That is now confirmed, and does not bode well for Amanda and Raffaele unless they are found innocent under appeal.

Pretty sure I didn't say anything to the contrary.

What did Barbie Nadeau recently claim?

Weren't you and others discussing her claim in the documentary from Lifetime that Rudy made a deal to get his sentence reduced? I haven't seen it, just going off memory from the last thread.

 

[Malkmus]

The judge's report has this to say about the arrival of the postal police:

the Postal Police (who it can be held that, according [81] to
what is maintained by the defendants’ defence, arrived after Raffaele Sollecito’s
telephone call to 112, and this by nothing other than the fact that regarding these calls to 112, the Postal Police say nothing

and:

Twice, Battistelli had had to get out of the car
and walk along before finding the house, where he arrived with Assistant Marzi at a little after 12:30 pm, or so it seemed to the two policemen.

 

[Malkmus]

LOL, no I don't imagine AK would ever respond that way.

No, of course not. I wasn't being literal

Wasn't this a jail conversation? Did they really have an expectation of privacy? I'm suggesting that "don't remember" is roughly translatable as "that's incriminating." jmo

fftobed:

My point is, simply, that it would have been a huge risk to ask Amanda to tell her what the conversation was about if it contained anything incriminating. I think Occam's Razor can be applied to this again. I think it's much simpler to conclude that Edda was earnestly trying to ask Amanda if she remembered their first phone call that morning and that she wouldn't have brought it up if it was incriminating, especially knowing the conversation was being listened to.

 

[otto]

So Edda risked her daughter's future by asking her that question? What if she had asked her what the phone call was about and Amanda responded "Oh the one where I told you I helped murder Meredith?"
I can't see Edda risking that happening.

They were being secretly recorded during the conversation, so it's very likely that Edda had no idea that her question would be raised in court. Edda and Amanda also did not know that police overheard Amanda stating that Patrick was not involved.

I don't think Amanda told her mother that she murdered Meredith, but I think she called and said something that didn't justify phoning at 3 AM Seattle time ... something that seemed out of place given the following phone call.

 

[otto]

Pretty sure I didn't say anything to the contrary.



Weren't you and others discussing her claim in the documentary from Lifetime that Rudy made a deal to get his sentence reduced? I haven't seen it, just going off memory from the last thread.

Someone posted that Barbie Nadeau claimed, in the documentary that followed the film, that Rudy made a deal with the prosecutor for a reduced sentence. Barbie did say that Rudy made a deal and that the fast track deal resulted in a reduced sentence per Italian law ... she did not say that he made a deal with the prosecutor for a reduced sentence.

 

[Malkmus]

They were being secretly recorded during the conversation, so it's very likely that Edda had no idea that her question would be raised in court. Edda and Amanda also did not know that police overheard Amanda stating that Patrick was not involved.

I don't think Amanda told her mother that she murdered Meredith, but I think she called and said something that didn't justify phoning at 3 AM Seattle time ... something that seemed out of place given the following phone call.

The "following phone call" was to police. I don't see what's strange about that. Again, Given the short amount of time between Amanda's phone call to her mom and the call to the carabinieri when exactly do you think Amanda and Raf discovered the blood in the bathroom and broken window? (The broken window was discovered once Raffaele went back with her by the way)
And since the judge's report upholds that Raf called 112 before the postal police arrived I don't believe this was done when they were in her bedroom as you seem to believe.

 

[otto]

The judge's report has this to say about the arrival of the postal police:



and:

Amanda Call to Mom: 12:47:23 (duration of 88 seconds): Amanda calls the American (USA) number 00120xxxxxxx7, using the cell on Piazza Lupatetlli sector 7; the phone call takes place prior to the one which, at 12.51.40, Raffaele Sollecito will make to ‚112‛, connecting to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 1, which gives coverage to Via della Pergola 7)

Raffaele Call to Police: 12:51:40 Raffaele Sollecito called ‚112‛ to inform the Carabinieri of the presumed theft in Romanelli’s room (duration 169 seconds; connection to Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 1 cell, which covers Via della Pergola 7)
− 12:54: a second call by Raffaele to ‚112‛ (57 sec.; connection to Piazza Lupattelli sector 7 cell)



Also came across this regarding the phone call to Meredith, then the call to Filomina ... and when Filomina told Amanda to call Meredith, Amanda did not mention that she had already called the number:

"The American student called her English flatmate even before contacting Romanelli Filomena to whom she intended to express, as she testified in court, her fears about the strange things she had seen in the cottage, which she had returned to at about 11 o’clock in order to shower in preparation for the excursion to Gubbio which she and Raffaele had planned.

It is strange that Amanda did not say a word to Filomena about the phone call to their flatmate, when the call, not having been answered, would normally have
caused anxiety and posed some questions as to why Meredith did not answer the phone at such an advanced hour of the day.

In the opinion of the Court of Assizes, the call to Meredith’s phone was the first indispensible step before putting the [348] planned staging into action. The lack of a reply, since the poor girl was obviously already dead, gave a reason for reassurance about the fact that the young woman’s phone had not somehow been retrieved, [and] was therefore safe in the spot where it had been thrown, which, according to the expectations [in the minds] of the murderers was a precipice or some other inaccessible spot, rather than in the garden of a villa located barely outside the city, where the vegetation concealed it from view."

Motivation Report (page 325)

 

[Malkmus]

12:47:23 (duration of 88 seconds): Amanda calls the American (USA) number 00120xxxxxxx7, using the cell on Piazza Lupatetlli sector 7; the phone call takes place prior to the one which, at 12.51.40, Raffaele Sollecito will make to ‚112‛, connecting to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 1, which gives coverage to Via della Pergola 7)

What is the point you're making? Sorry. Not getting it.

 

[otto]

This is where the problem is ... Amanda saw the broken window before she went back to Raffaele's apt:

"She said that after the shower she got dressed and noticed that Meredith’s door was locked. She went into the other bathroom and said that there were faeces in the toilet. Then she went into another room and noticed that the window had been broken and that there was glass inside. She told these things to her and the other girls present. Then she related that she had gone back to Raffaele’s house and had rung Filomena. She remembered that on that occasion at police headquarters Raffaele was very calm, silent."

Motivation Report (page 38)

 

[otto]

What is the point you're making? Sorry. Not getting it.

Amanda made her first call to her mom well after she discovered the scene at the cottage. Her first call was to Meredith, then to Filomina. She did not tell Filomina that Meredith was not answer her phone, and did not immediately call Filomina back like she said. Instead, Filomina called her a couple of times, and at least one of those times Amanda did not answer.

I find the first call to mom to be completely out of place because it does not correspond to learning about the break in, but in fact seems to correspond more closely to when discussion turned to breaking down the door and discovering the murder.

 

[Malkmus]

This is where the problem is ... Amanda saw the broken window before she went back to Raffaele's apt:

"She said that after the shower she got dressed and noticed that Meredith’s door was locked. She went into the other bathroom and said that there were faeces in the toilet. Then she went into another room and noticed that the window had been broken and that there was glass inside. She told these things to her and the other girls present. Then she related that she had gone back to Raffaele’s house and had rung Filomena. She remembered that on that occasion at police headquarters Raffaele was very calm, silent."

Motivation Report (page 38)

Hmm that's at odds with what she is directly quoted as saying in her trial testimony, in which she states seeing inside Filomena's room once she went back with Raf. So, not sure what to make of it at this point.

 

[Malkmus]

Amanda made her first call to her mom well after she discovered the scene at the cottage. Her first call was to Meredith, then to Filomina. She did not tell Filomina that Meredith was not answer her phone, and did not immediately call Filomina back like she said. Instead, Filomina called her a couple of times, and at least one of those times Amanda did not answer.

I find the first call to mom to be completely out of place because it does not correspond to learning about the break in, but in fact seems to correspond more closely to when discussion turned to breaking down the door and discovering the murder.

If the judge's report is correct in that she said she saw the window earlier I would lean towards agreeing with you, but as I said, this is at odds with direct quotes from her to the contrary.

Anywho, I'm yawning up a storm so I'm off for tonight.

 

[otto]

Hmm that's at odds with what she is directly quoted as saying in her trial testimony, in which she states seeing inside Filomena's room once she went back with Raf. So, not sure what to make of it at this point.

If the judge's report is correct,

That explains why this point has confused me ... it seems that at the time that everyone arrived at the cottage, Amanda reported that she saw the window, etc and then went to Raffaele's apt. If she said during trial that she didn't see the broken window until returning with Raffaele, it looks better for her ... but she also had plenty of time to think about it.

Correction: that's what she stated at the police station on Nov 2

 

[otto]

I'm confident that the translation is correct, but the judge may have made errors. That seems like a particularly large error that should have been corrected under appeal as it does seem significant.

As it stands, Amanda returned to the cottage at about 10-10:30 am. She claimed that she showered while there, but I'm skeptical based on photos taken in the afternoon. She reported to police that she saw the blood, toilet, broken window, locked door and open front door, but didn't phone anyone, not even Raffaele. She spent about an hour there, maybe 1.5 hours, and then returned to Raffaele's apt. I suppose this is when the mopping and phone call to Meredith and Filomina happened. Amanda and Raffaele then sat down for something to eat. Around 12-12:30 they arrive at the cottage? Amanda and Raffaele are standing outside the cottage smooching next to a mop - the mob that was supposedly needed to clean up the water spill on Raffaele's floor 14 hours earlier.

Somewhere in the midst of this, around 11:30 am, Amanda took the mop through the streets of Perugia but no one has come forward claiming they saw an American woman wandering around Perugia with a mop at noon on a holiday. The spill was cleaned up, the mop was back home and standing outside the front door.

The Postal Police unexpectedly arrived. Amanda had called Meredith's number from Raffaele's apt. and there was no answer so she was probably safely assuming the phones had not been found. What a surprise to find the police on the door step with the phones.

Amanda had already contacted Filomina and she was on her way. Lucky for Filomina and Meredith that the police were already there ... what if Filomina and friends had decided to break down the door anyway, even if the police weren't there (the police really had nothing to do with the decision). They would have completely contaminated the bedroom, moved the duvet, trampled on evidence. Amanda and Raffaele had already cracked the door so the next crack was going to open it.

Were they thinking: If police arrest Rudy first ... then they'll be free and clear. If Filomina arrived and not the police, evidence of Knox and Sollecito in the bedroom would be meaningless, and if Knox hadn't acted so odd, Raffaele's apt may not have been searched, and the knife may never have been discovered.

 

[claudicici]

I still don't understand why RG would not have implicated them when he was arrested?

 

[otto]

I still don't understand why RG would not have implicated them when he was arrested?

He may have ... maybe not. Let's suppose the bedroom is completely contaminated, and that additional bloody footprints were added to the mix in the hallway. Other than the multiple knives, staged break-in (which failed primarily because the room was ransacked first), excessive injury and theory of more than one assaialant, there would have been no reason to suspect Amanda. It's hard to say whether they would have been suspected (as Amanda did not react in a normal manner) ... although police would have continued looking for the other assailants. Knox and Raffaele could have argued that they were being falsely accused by Rudy ... and what evidence would there have been except the bathroom and the luminol mix in Filomina's bedroom (although that could have been explained by contamination if they had trampled the bedroom).

 

[sherlockh]

I still don't understand why RG would not have implicated them when he was arrested?

If he tell on them then they might tell on him.

 

[missyjane77]

If he tell on them then they might tell on him.

Has he ever implicated them? I can't recall off the top of my head.

 

[sherlockh]

Has he ever implicated them? I can't recall off the top of my head.

There were a few early articles stating that he did. For example:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3629353.ece

But I don't think he ever said that in court. During his appeal he made a statement where he said he saw AK running away, and he bumped into some unknown Italian stranger who killed Meredith. Where his lawyers say since RS was convicted he must be the Italian stranger. All very political. IMO.

 

[SleuthyGal]

The problem in analyzing evidence is when one starts from a position of 'guilty without a doubt she's guilty,' then every single thing is seen as some sort of evidence to bolster the guilt, even if it's not evidence of anything related.

The truth is, AK made some phone calls to her mother. Around the same time (give or take) AK and/or RS made calls to the roommates, RS's sister, the police.

How many phone calls were made? 5? 6? I'm talking altogether. 3 just to AK's mother? Why should AK remember every.single.phone.call and what was said on every specific phone call? I know I wouldn't unless I made a point of paying close attention to what I was saying on the call or writing it down/making notes.