WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[SleuthyGal]

If he tell on them then they might tell on him.

Tell on him? His DNA, footprints, fingerprints, shoe prints, and feces were all found in that apt.

Isn't it just as likely that he didn't tell on them because there was nothing to tell...because they weren't there and they didn't commit this crime together?

Has he ever implicated them? I can't recall off the top of my head.

He did not implicate them, at least not initially. Further, he was secretly taped on a phone call to a friend saying they (AK and RS) were not in the apt at the time he was.

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Are we going to get to see any more evidence in the appeals process?

Because right now, there isn't any evidence that AK did this.

AK DNA in the cottage is meaningless, because she lived there. I don't care how many samples, 1 or 1 million, are found of her DNA in the house that she lived in. Her DNA is going to be all over. If someone ran bleeding into my living room, chances are they are going to bleed all over my DNA. So I have to toss all of those out as evidence of involvement. (And I'm a little surprised that experienced investigators didn't?)

Making phone calls, one or many, at any time of the day or night, is not a crime.

Doing drugs, having sex, being irresponsible, and making poor decisions do not equate to murder. If they did, my college years would have earned me 30 to life.

All that we have are confused, lying, or inaccurate statements by a tired and scared spoiled girl in a foreign country. This just isn't enough for me. Not in a case run by a corrupt man that needs this win for political gain.

 

[trillian]

About the "staged break-in": Even if there was glass on top of the clothes, why is that PROOF that the break in was staged?

There could be a pretty simple explanation.

Rudy breaks the window, then uses some item he has to place on top of the sill so he can avoid the glass cutting him (jacket/shirt/backpack or whatever). Then he rifles through the room- perhaps thinking he will quickly find the rent money and take off. He stays a bit longer because he really needs the toilet. Some time later he gets whatever is still on the sill and pulls some glass inside the room with it and on top of the clothes.

This is a much more plausible reason than that AK and RS stage the scene in a remarkably similar way to RG's known MO and magically get the glass to land across the room, back towards themselves, while throwing it from the inside.

 

[otto]

The problem in analyzing evidence is when one starts from a position of 'guilty without a doubt she's guilty,' then every single thing is seen as some sort of evidence to bolster the guilt, even if it's not evidence of anything related.

The truth is, AK made some phone calls to her mother. Around the same time (give or take) AK and/or RS made calls to the roommates, RS's sister, the police.

How many phone calls were made? 5? 6? I'm talking altogether. 3 just to AK's mother? Why should AK remember every.single.phone.call and what was said on every specific phone call? I know I wouldn't unless I made a point of paying close attention to what I was saying on the call or writing it down/making notes.

The problem with looking at each piece of evidence in isolation and making and excuse to explain it away is that the explanations start to sound incredulous.

The excuse for Amanda phoning her mom when nothing had yet happened is that she was worried about the break in, even though she discovered the break in 2 hours earlier. The excuse for not remember the phone call is that she was stressed, although nothing had yet happened. The excuse for knowing that Meredith bled to death is that someone told her even though Meredith was covered with a duvet and everyone was ordered out of the cottae. The excuse for doing cartwheels is that she temporarily transformed into a restless teenager. The excuse for confessing is that in the course of two hours she was deprived of food, water, rest, and beaten. It goes on and on ... one minute she's completely unconcerned about the break in, the next she's so stressed about it she can't remember phoning mom at 3 in the morning (Seattle time). One minute she's a restless teenager, the next she's a helpless adult deprived of the necessities of life.

What does the number of phone calls have to do with anything? Are we to believe that she remembered all the phone calls except the very first one ... the one and only call that makes absolutely no sense ... because she made 3 or 4 or whatever in total?

 

[otto]

Tell on him? His DNA, footprints, fingerprints, shoe prints, and feces were all found in that apt.

Isn't it just as likely that he didn't tell on them because there was nothing to tell...because they weren't there and they didn't commit this crime together?



He did not implicate them, at least not initially. Further, he was secretly taped on a phone call to a friend saying they (AK and RS) were not in the apt at the time he was.

Sure he did. He changed mind a few times ... they weren't there, they were there, it was a shadowy figure, it was Amada, it was a stranger, it was a man with glasses (just like Raffaele).

 

[otto]

Are we going to get to see any more evidence in the appeals process?

Because right now, there isn't any evidence that AK did this.

AK DNA in the cottage is meaningless, because she lived there. I don't care how many samples, 1 or 1 million, are found of her DNA in the house that she lived in. Her DNA is going to be all over. If someone ran bleeding into my living room, chances are they are going to bleed all over my DNA. So I have to toss all of those out as evidence of involvement. (And I'm a little surprised that experienced investigators didn't?)

Making phone calls, one or many, at any time of the day or night, is not a crime.

Doing drugs, having sex, being irresponsible, and making poor decisions do not equate to murder. If they did, my college years would have earned me 30 to life.

All that we have are confused, lying, or inaccurate statements by a tired and scared spoiled girl in a foreign country. This just isn't enough for me. Not in a case run by a corrupt man that needs this win for political gain.

When someone changes their alibi a few times, lies and falsely accuses an innocent person ... is that circumstantial evidence, or is that just what silly people do during interviews with murder investigators?

When someone's DNA is found mixed with the victim's blood in a room where they have no business being, is that simply a great big coincidence ... something to be ignored? It's funny that earlier arguments were that Knox's DNA was not in Meredith's bedroom, therefore she should be innocent, and now the argument is that of course her DNA is mixed with the victim's blood ... because she lived there. Can't win with the DNA evidence regardless of whether it's there or not there ... always an excuse to ignore it.

And when all else fails, let's start talking about the two corrupt prosecutors ... still waiting to hear what the corrupt prosecutors did to convince the judge and jury that Raffaele Sollecito and the Seattle woman were guilty ... been waiting for a long time for those details.

 

[miley]

There were a few early articles stating that he did. For example:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3629353.ece

But I don't think he ever said that in court. During his appeal he made a statement where he said he saw AK running away, and he bumped into some unknown Italian stranger who killed Meredith. Where his lawyers say since RS was convicted he must be the Italian stranger. All very political. IMO.

I'm curious, what do you mean by, "all very political"

 

[otto]

About the "staged break-in": Even if there was glass on top of the clothes, why is that PROOF that the break in was staged?

There could be a pretty simple explanation.

Rudy breaks the window, then uses some item he has to place on top of the sill so he can avoid the glass cutting him (jacket/shirt/backpack or whatever). Then he rifles through the room- perhaps thinking he will quickly find the rent money and take off. He stays a bit longer because he really needs the toilet. Some time later he gets whatever is still on the sill and pulls some glass inside the room with it and on top of the clothes.

This is a much more plausible reason than that AK and RS stage the scene in a remarkably similar way to RG's known MO and magically get the glass to land across the room, back towards themselves, while throwing it from the inside.

What proof is there that the break in was staged? Odd question.

1. the grass outside the window was damp from rain a day or so earlier. There was no disturbance in the area, no footprints, nothing

2. The wall could not be scaled and if it was, why wasn't the protruding nail used to prop someone up a bit?

3. The glass was broken but the window frame had fragments of glass sticking out

4. The broken glass would have cut anyone that climbed through the window

5. There was broken glass on the window ledge meaning no one had swept it away to climb through the window

6. The room had been ransacked and there was broken glass on top of the stuff in the room (that little timing issue; the layering of stuff indicates order in which it was put there)

 

[ChasingMoxie]

When someone changes their alibi a few times, lies and falsely accuses an innocent person ... is that circumstantial evidence, or is that just what silly people do during interviews with murder investigators?

When someone's DNA is found mixed with the victim's blood in a room where they have no business being, is that simply a great big coincidence ... something to be ignored? It's funny that earlier arguments were that Knox's DNA was not in Meredith's bedroom, therefore she should be innocent, and now the argument is that of course her DNA is mixed with the victim's blood ... because she lived there. Can't win with the DNA evidence regardless of whether it's there or not there ... always an excuse to ignore it.

And when all else fails, let's start talking about the two corrupt prosecutors ... still waiting to hear what the corrupt prosecutors did to convince the judge and jury that Raffaele Sollecito and the Seattle woman were guilty ... been waiting for a long time for those details.

I have NEVER stated that I thought AK's DNA wouldn't be in M's bedroom; they live together in a small place, I think it's likely that both of their DNA is all over the place. I think that what I'm saying makes sense logically and scientifically.

 

[OldSteve]

In the movie, when AK spoke to her mother on the first day of the crime, her mother wanted her come home right away. AK refused to...

Here are my questions - could AK have left the country at that time. Was her passport ever taken to stop her?

What would have happend had she left, gotten back home in the US...

 

[trillian]

What proof is there that the break in was staged? Odd question.

1. the grass outside the window was damp from rain a day or so earlier. There was no disturbance in the area, no footprints, nothing

2. The wall could not be scaled and if it was, why wasn't the protruding nail used to prop someone up a bit?

3. The glass was broken but the window frame had fragments of glass sticking out

4. The broken glass would have cut anyone that climbed through the window

5. There was broken glass on the window ledge meaning no one had swept it away to climb through the window

6. The room had been ransacked and there was broken glass on top of the stuff in the room (that little timing issue; the layering of stuff indicates order in which it was put there)

1. I have never seen close up photos of the ground beneath the window. Have you? I saw a lot of leaves from a distance and that's about it.

2. Why would he prop up on the nail? He probably couldn't even see it. From what I read, he had gone into second story windows before.

3. Glass in the frame from a rock going through? Why would it not? Is there some glass in a super odd place and can you provide photo evidence?

4. The window opens just like the shutters do. If he put something down on top of the sill, there would be no cuts. That was the whole point of my scenario.

5. Again, if he put something underneath, he would not need to sweep anything away and nothing would fall to the ground.

6. I addressed this. Did you read my whole post? He put something underneath and retrieved it later. Why is this impossible to you? Makes sense to me. I would put something down so as not to cut myself. If you broke into your own house through a window, would you not put some article of clothing or other protective layer on the sill before climbing through?

 

[otto]

I have NEVER stated that I thought AK's DNA wouldn't be in M's bedroom; they live together in a small place, I think it's likely that both of their DNA is all over the place. I think that what I'm saying makes sense logically and scientifically.

Why was Amanda's DNA mixed with Meredith's blood in Filomina's room? That doesn't sound right to me. Meredith's blood mixed with Filomina's DNA in Filomina's bedroom, sure ... but not Knox's DNA.

Why would Meredith be bleeding such that Knox picked up that blood and deposited it in Filomina's bedroom? We haven't heard testimony from anyone that Meredith was a bleeder and Amanda spent time in Filomina's bedroom.

 

[otto]

1. I have never seen close up photos of the ground beneath the window. Have you? I saw a lot of leaves from a distance and that's about it.

2. Why would he prop up on the nail? He probably couldn't even see it. From what I read, he had gone into second story windows before.

3. Glass in the frame from a rock going through? Why would it not? Is there some glass in a super odd place and can you provide photo evidence?

4. The window opens just like the shutters do. If he put something down on top of the sill, there would be no cuts. That was the whole point of my scenario.

5. Again, if he put something underneath, he would not need to sweep anything away and nothing would fall to the ground.

6. I addressed this. Did you read my whole post? He put something underneath and retrieved it later. Why is this impossible to you? Makes sense to me. I would put something down so as not to cut myself. If you broke into your own house through a window, would you not put some article of clothing or other protective layer on the sill before climbing through?

Do I have to see it with my own eyes before I believe what was reported by everyone at the scene? Are they all liars?

What did he put under the window and later retrieve? A couple of boxes? A ladder? A saw horse? An elevator?

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Why was Amanda's DNA mixed with Meredith's blood in Filomina's room? That doesn't sound right to me. Meredith's blood mixed with Filomina's DNA in Filomina's bedroom, sure ... but not Knox's DNA.

Why would Meredith be bleeding such that Knox picked up that blood and deposited it in Filomina's bedroom? We haven't heard testimony from anyone that Meredith was a bleeder and Amanda spent time in Filomina's bedroom.

I actually imagine it happening such that DNA exists all over the place, and blood is deposited in a place containing said DNA, not the other way around. I also don't think that they have to be deposited at the same time.

 

[otto]

In the movie, when AK spoke to her mother on the first day of the crime, her mother wanted her come home right away. AK refused to...

Here are my questions - could AK have left the country at that time. Was her passport ever taken to stop her?

What would have happend had she left, gotten back home in the US...

I think that Amanda was asked to stay in Italy, but there was really nothing to prevent her from taking the train to Germany and then flying to the US

That's interesting too ... Edda immediately wanted Amanda to leave the country ... there was a phone call from Germany with Amanda's aunt also asking her to leave the country. I think it's a little odd that everyone was so up in arms about Amanda leaving the country after Meredith was murdered. I don't think any of the other witnesses had their mothers arrive in Perugia, or plead with the witnesses to leave the country. One of Meredith's British friends left the country the day after the murder.

If Knox had fled to Germany, she would have been brought back to Italy. If she had fled to the US, she may have avoided extradition. The PR machine has touched a neighborhood judge, Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump so maybe they could have kept Knox out of jail.

 

[otto]

I actually imagine it happening such that DNA exists all over the place, and blood is deposited in a place containing said DNA, not the other way around. I also don't think that they have to be deposited at the same time.

So what was Meredith's blood doing in Filomina's bedroom? Just a coincidence? And just a coincidence that the blood fell onto Amanda's DNA? Just a coincidence that Filomina's DNA didn't fall in her own bedroom?

 

[Nova]

The first phone call was not made when Amanda discovered anything wrong at the cottage. It was made a couple of hours later when she was at the cottage with Raffaele, so I cannot conclude that the call was a result of Amanda being concerned about the open door or blood on the bath mat. My conclusion is that she was not at all concerned about what she found at the cottage.

This is an arbitrary conclusion. Because AK doesn't respond quickly enough to suit you, you conclude she has no feelings.

Once again, we are talking about a 20-year-old girl, in a foreign country where she isn't fluent in the language, in a rented room where she has only lived for a few weeks; a window is broken, yet expensive items such as computers are still in place.

LE concluded there was something fishy about the break-in. Is it any surprise that AK was confused about what to do?

It is my understanding that Amanda called her mom during the time that she and Raffaele were in her bedroom with the door closed, at the same time that there was discussion about what to do about Meredith's locked door. The circumstances at the time, as I understand it, was that Filomina and friends plus police were at the cottage. Filomina and Amanda participated in the discussion about whether to break down the door. Filomina insisted, Amanda said that it was not unusual for Meredith to lock the door - another indication that Amanda was not all that concerned. At some point, Raffaele and Amanda positioned themselves in the kitchen, and the rest of the party was in the hallway around the door.

That may have been the prosecution's claim, but it is my understanding it was proven at trial that RS called the carabinieri before the postal police arrived. And it was strongly suggested the police lied about call times to make RS and AK look bad.

When the door was opened, they were ushered outside and then Amanda called her mom again to say that there was a foot. The first phone call was unusual both from the viewpoint of police and Edda ... and both asked why she called since nothing had happened. I see all the comments about Amanda calling because she was concerned, but the timing is all wrong for the call to be related to Amanda discovering that something was wrong at the cottage.

Again, you draw the arbitrary conclusion that unless someone acts immediately, s/he can't be concerned about something. I assume you've never pondered something for awhile before reacting.

But let's assume for a moment that AK is guilty. Then you conclude what? That she called her mother at 3 a.m. to quickly confess before dealing with the police and others who were about to break down MK's door? That makes far less sense than just assuming AK was under stress over all the events and wanted to hear a sympathetic voice.

Like so much of the "abundance" of evidence against AK, this supposedly mysterious phone call doesn't prove anything--not even if one assumes the worst-case scenario for AK. It's just another attempt to distract us from the lack of real evidence against AK and RS.

 

[Nova]

It's possible that Amanda was nervous about the fact that the bedroom door was about to be opened, as that is what was happening when she first phoned.

But that doesn't make her guilty of murder. It may just mean she was worried about her missing flatmate.

 

[otto]

This is an arbitrary conclusion. Because AK doesn't respond quickly enough to suit you, you conclude she has no feelings.

Once again, we are talking about a 20-year-old girl, in a foreign country where she isn't fluent in the language, in a rented room where she has only lived for a few weeks; a window is broken, yet expensive items such as computers are still in place.

LE concluded there was something fishy about the break-in. Is it any surprise that AK was confused about what to do?



That may have been the prosecution's claim, but it is my understanding it was proven at trial that RS called the carabinieri before the postal police arrived. And it was strongly suggested the police lied about call times to make RS and AK look bad.



Again, you draw the arbitrary conclusion that unless someone acts immediately, s/he can't be concerned about something. I assume you've never pondered something for awhile before reacting.

But let's assume for a moment that AK is guilty. Then you conclude what? That she called her mother at 3 a.m. to quickly confess before dealing with the police and others who were about to break down MK's door? That makes far less sense than just assuming AK was under stress over all the events and wanted to hear a sympathetic voice.

Like so much of the "abundance" of evidence against AK, this supposedly mysterious phone call doesn't prove anything--not even if one assumes the worst-case scenario for AK. It's just another attempt to distract us from the lack of real evidence against AK and RS.

Let's take that one point at a time. Police thought something was fishy about the broken window, so Amanda did too and that's why she ignored the break in for a couple of hours?

What was fishy about the window?

 

[otto]

But that doesn't make her guilty of murder. It may just mean she was worried about her missing flatmate.

Well that doesn't make any sense. Amanda said there was nothing to worry about and no reason to break the door down because Meredith routinely locked her bedroom door.