WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #8

[Allusonz]

The smaller knife that made the imprint on the bed is the correct size blade that would be compatible with all of Meredith's wounds. The wrong size knife was taken from the drawer by the police officer. This caused problems for the prosecution when it was proven that the knife was too big. Instead of correctly eliminating the big knife, the prosecution simply changed their theory and stated that two knives must have been used. Meredith Kercher was murdered with one knife. The knife that was used to murder Meredith was never found.

http://injusticeinperugia.org/TheKnife.html

 

[Allusonz]

There are very few labs certified to do LCN DNA testing

In this particular case we are dealing with extremely LOW NUMBERS OF PICOGRAMS

As much as the DNA technologies created controversy and challenges when they were introduced, LCN DNA has produced its very own set of problems. Not least among these is the limited number of providers of this technology. In many cases they are working with old, degraded, or sub-microscopic volumes of material

http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-2/1003857.aspx

 

[Allusonz]

HUGE misconception. So many think that LCN DNA should be identical as in regular DNA. In fact the opposite is true

the very small amounts of DNA and the vagaries of the method mean that it is frequently the case that replicate samples, that should produce the same results, don’t


http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-2/1003857.aspx

 

[Allusonz]

This is only ONE item!!!! No wonder the prosecution will not turn over the .fsa files!!!! When I look at the way ILE treated that crime scene, piled items covered in DNA, then selectively took items to test is beyond what you would even see in the movies. That is INJUSTICE!!!

And MK's family received a small tattered box of her items in the mail. THAT IS IT!!!! As a parent I would of been HORRIFIED!!!

 

[SleuthyGal]

dgfred,

The link is contained right in my posting. Just click on the word HERE from that post (it's bolded and underlined) and it will take you right to the page in which I pulled the knife info. None of the info is mine, btw.

The analysis was done by Mark C. Waterbury, Ph.D

 

[SleuthyGal]

Yes Alluson,

The Italian police FUBAR'd the crime scene. We can see in pictures that they moved items that had blood on them, causing new blood stains to appear, they didn't carefully process the crime scene and certainly not in a timely fashion.

Seeing pictures from a month apart where items had been moved in MK's room (moved by the investigators/crime scene folk) drives that home. That scene was full of blood and DNA and they treated it like it was a flea market, picking through the stuff and not taking care to make sure nothing got moved, blood wasn't transferred, etc.

It's shameful. This scene could easily be used showing what not to do in future forensic student classrooms. The mistakes made make it look like the ILE had no in-depth training.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I'd like to see the look on Barry Scheck or Peter Neufield's faces upon being shown pictures of the crime scene and the DNA testing reports on the knife. Can you imagine the look of horror these 2 DNA experts would have? :-O

 

[sherlockh]

DNA has to be something (blood, saliva, skin cells, etc.), fred. If the kitchen knife were indeed the murder weapon, it would have been dripping with blood. It would be a virtual miracle if someone were able to clean all traces of blood off the knife, yet leave behind 5 cells of some other DNA from MK. Everyday contamination (AK unknowingly brought a bit of MK's DNA from home), lab contamination or faulty testing are more likely explanations for the results ILE got.

Testing other knives from the same drawer would have told us if those knives, too, contained tiny amounts of MK's DNA. If they did, we would have to blame contamination (either at the lab or elsewhere), since all the knives can't be the murder weapon.

The testing of the knife best typifies the way this case was handled. ILE ignored accepted testing procedures, worked until they got the result they wanted and not one minute more. As a result, all of their claims--but particularly their forensics--should be suspect.

You mean there would have been more than 5 cells left if it was the murder weapon, or that it is amazing that any cells were left after a scrubbing with bleach? I really don't know either way. I do find it funny to see all kinds of 'DNA experts' popping up on the internet to discuss the subject. No matter from which angle. The double DNA knife is one of those things where I step back and let the experts decide. I simply have no idea what is 'normal', what should or should not have been done.

I only know the situation is this:
- A police guy thought the shining knife on top in the drawer suspicious and collected it for testing.
- The DNA expert found 7 traces of DNA and collected just enough (I see 5 cells mentioned) DNA from it to perform one test and one test only.
- As a reason for why there still would be any DNA left, she said that under strong light and under a specific angle she saw very tiny scratches.
- She cranked up the DNA machine several times according to some note that says 'too low, too low' several times.
- Finally, she came up with a profile that matches the DNA profile of Meredith.

Now what does this mean for the appeal?
- Will the way it was collected be contested? Probably, but it is what it is and I don't see any reason why that would be a reason to throw it out.
-Will the DNA profile be contested? Not sure. I think it is either Meredith's DNA profile or it isn't. I would be very surprised if it suddenly turned out to be somebody elses.
- Will the single test, and the technical issues of cranking up the machine be contested? Absolutely, and here is a chance that the knife could be thrown out. But I have no idea what is allowed or not. How many cells is needed or what is legally accepted. Can you crank up the machine 10 or 20 times? I really don't know.

So in summary..I let you guys..eehh, the court decide

 

[SleuthyGal]

What should happen (in the appeals) and what will happen are likely two different things.

No one should be thrown into jail for life if the evidence (esp DNA) has not been collected, processed, tested, and interpreted correctly. If DNA is the foundation of one's criminal case (and it is in this case), then it must stand up to scrutiny and every step of the procedures must be examined to ensure accurate results.

On top of that you have the one of the DNA lab specialists lie on the stand (and get caught). How can anyone feel good about results after errors were noted in the very procedures?

 

[Nova]

You mean there would have been more than 5 cells left if it was the murder weapon, or that it is amazing that any cells were left after a scrubbing with bleach? I really don't know either way. I do find it funny to see all kinds of 'DNA experts' popping up on the internet to discuss the subject. No matter from which angle. The double DNA knife is one of those things where I step back and let the experts decide. I simply have no idea what is 'normal', what should or should not have been done.

I only know the situation is this:
- A police guy thought the shining knife on top in the drawer suspicious and collected it for testing.
- The DNA expert found 7 traces of DNA and collected just enough (I see 5 cells mentioned) DNA from it to perform one test and one test only.
- As a reason for why there still would be any DNA left, she said that under strong light and under a specific angle she saw very tiny scratches.
- She cranked up the DNA machine several times according to some note that says 'too low, too low' several times.
- Finally, she came up with a profile that matches the DNA profile of Meredith.

Now what does this mean for the appeal?
- Will the way it was collected be contested? Probably, but it is what it is and I don't see any reason why that would be a reason to throw it out.
-Will the DNA profile be contested? Not sure. I think it is either Meredith's DNA profile or it isn't. I would be very surprised if it suddenly turned out to be somebody elses.
- Will the single test, and the technical issues of cranking up the machine be contested? Absolutely, and here is a chance that the knife could be thrown out. But I have no idea what is allowed or not. How many cells is needed or what is legally accepted. Can you crank up the machine 10 or 20 times? I really don't know.

So in summary..I let you guys..eehh, the court decide

Fair questions all, sherlocklh. I meant there should either be (a) no DNA left on the knife due to cleaning; or (b) if some DNA were left behind, probability says it should be blood DNA if that knife was the murder weapon.

The odds that all traces of blood were cleaned away, yet 5 or so cells of MK's non-blood DNA were conveniently left behind, must be astronomical! The supposed notches on the blade may indicate cleaning, but they don't explain magic cleaning that removes blood while leaving DNA from other sources.

And this doesn't even begin to address irregularities with the testing and reaching results from inadequate testing.

(And I'll repeat: since nobody believes AK left RS' apartment that night planning to kill MK (even the Court ruled out premeditation), it makes no sense that AK would choose an unwieldy, foot-long steak knife as a fashion accessory. Particularly not when her boyfriend had a collection of retractable knives that would have done as well.)

 

[Nova]

What should happen (in the appeals) and what will happen are likely two different things.

No one should be thrown into jail for life if the evidence (esp DNA) has not been collected, processed, tested, and interpreted correctly. If DNA is the foundation of one's criminal case (and it is in this case), then it must stand up to scrutiny and every step of the procedures must be examined to ensure accurate results.

On top of that you have the one of the DNA lab specialists lie on the stand (and get caught). How can anyone feel good about results after errors were noted in the very procedures?

So much is made of AK's lies, and certainly she bears responsibility for falsely implicating Patrick Lamumba. But we also have lies from the postal police, the lead DNA specialist and probably the prison doctor as well. All of these were presumably well-trained professionals and none were under the pressure of being suspected of murder or being assaulted (even if only verbally) by interrogators.

Are they all guilty of murder?! I assume from posts here that many believe anyone who lies also kills.

 

[trillian]

Question for those in-the-know:

I remember that the luminol prints went over the grout in the tile. What came out of testing of the grout? I cant find anything. Being that this is the most porous area of the floor, it must have been tested. Anyone know?

 

[OldSteve]

What should happen (in the appeals) and what will happen are likely two different things.

No one should be thrown into jail for life if the evidence (esp DNA) has not been collected, processed, tested, and interpreted correctly. If DNA is the foundation of one's criminal case (and it is in this case), then it must stand up to scrutiny and every step of the procedures must be examined to ensure accurate results.

On top of that you have the one of the DNA lab specialists lie on the stand (and get caught). How can anyone feel good about results after errors were noted in the very procedures?

What concerns me most is the light sentence Rudy wound up has left juriors with a need to find AK guilty as some sort of justification.

 

[Allusonz]

Question for those in-the-know:

I remember that the luminol prints went over the grout in the tile. What came out of testing of the grout? I cant find anything. Being that this is the most porous area of the floor, it must have been tested. Anyone know?

Luminol is used to detect areas for blood traces. We know this was done not only at AK's cottage but also RS's apartment. No blood traces were detected at RS's apartment

We also know that Stephanoni testified that she did not test the luminol for blood when in fact she did as per my previous cites, in areas that reacted with the luminol specific for the footprints. Just because an area reacts does not mean it is blood.

Since it is often sprayed and a forensic team is looking for these blood traces I would think that the grout between the tiles would of been tested for 2 reasons. The first being that it is porous, the second is that since it was probably sprayed it would of been impossible to of missed the areas of grout.

We have to remember that all the .fsa files were not disclosed to the defense and in fact is part of both AK's and RS's appeal

Of what was available we know that 9 DNA experts wrote an open letter. The reason they would not sign off on the information is they did not have all the .fsa files that they required to do an independant review.

I seriously doubt that the prosecution could get independant DNA experts to condone what has been done especially 9 of them (I believe this number is in fact higher now)

We now have 2 members of Acadamia reviewing the DNA and here is where it becomes very interesting.

Considering what we do in fact know with respect to collection and testing of this DNA their review results will be very interesting.

If they rule in favour of the prosecution, they will never be taken seriously within the scientific community thus there jobs would quite likely be on the line

If they rule in favour of the defense, they will have solidfied their reputations within the scientific communities

I have a number of questions.


Did they get all the .fsa files of which the defense has yet not received?

If they do in fact toss the DNA results and it is scathing enough, what could this potentially mean for RG's defense?

 

[Allusonz]

What concerns me most is the light sentence Rudy wound up has left juriors with a need to find AK guilty as some sort of justification.

Depending on how this appeals process plays out, technically there could potentially be other areas that RG could appeal. We do know that he is appealing to the EU. Many felt that he only had this last appeal left when in fact there is this one

 

[Allusonz]

So much is made of AK's lies, and certainly she bears responsibility for falsely implicating Patrick Lamumba. But we also have lies from the postal police, the lead DNA specialist and probably the prison doctor as well. All of these were presumably well-trained professionals and none were under the pressure of being suspected of murder or being assaulted (even if only verbally) by interrogators.

Are they all guilty of murder?! I assume from posts here that many believe anyone who lies also kills.

Add to this

no audio/visual recording
3 out of 4 hard drives destroyed
.fsa files not disclosed to the defense (i even have to question whether there are any)

I am sure many of you can add to this.

 

[Nova]

Add to this

no audio/visual recording
3 out of 4 hard drives destroyed
.fsa files not disclosed to the defense (i even have to question whether there are any)

I am sure many of you can add to this.

And even so, we would only be counting the LE statements that have been proven to be lies. In other cases, such as whether AK was struck in the head during interrogation, we don't know who is lying. Could go either way, if you ask me. (Yes, I know an Italian court found AK guilty of libel for that claim. I don't find that particularly convincing.)

 

[OldSteve]

Does anyone know when the appeal will take place?

Also, this must be costing AK's family a fortune.

 

[dgfred]

Last I heard:
March 12, 26
April 16
May 21 (IIRC the court will have the re-test results on May 9)

 

[dgfred]

dgfred,

The link is contained right in my posting. Just click on the word HERE from that post (it's bolded and underlined) and it will take you right to the page in which I pulled the knife info. None of the info is mine, btw.

The analysis was done by Mark C. Waterbury, Ph.D

Don't blame you one bit for not claiming that info... from one on the AK bandwagon.