Was Burke Involved # 5

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
HarmonyE. said:
Actually, the standard is the same for someone publishing something in a book vs. a post on a website. But in the US we have Constitutionally protected free speech, no matter who we are. The Ramseys are public figures, so in order to prevail in a defamation (libel) lawsuit they have to prove 1) The individual being sued knew they were telling a lie and 2) That the lie was made with actual malice. "Actually malice" basically means something was said or published with reckless disregard for the truth and knowing the statement would cause harm to that person.

So the Ramseys have a high bar in order to prevail in any defamation lawsuit. And they aren't going to waste their time suing tens of thousands of youtube and website posters.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, Thank you. I knew that about a website. duh. And I so appreciate your legal expertise.
 
The 2 Ramsey survivors and their attorneys have made murder very profitable. As I have stated before, nothing convinced me that BR was the most likely suspect more than his appearance on Dr. Phil. And, since his appearance was before the CBS show aired, it seems he became a public figure with the blessing of his father and LW.

But, this lawsuit will be interesting. BR will have to submit to hours and hours of depositions as he is questioned by attorneys for, and in the presence of, each named defendant. He, through LW, will have to prove the allegations of his petition for damages. "I didn't do it will not suffice. He will have to prove that what CBS published is false and was known to be false when published and that it was intended to harm the character of BR, a public figure, whom they knew to be innocent. Daddy will not be allowed to participate and no one will hold any punches as CBS attorneys ruthlessly paperwork LW to death.

JR will be subjected to brutal cross examination in deposition as well. Maybe, just maybe, the agony of seeing BR dissected in public will be enough for JR to finally confess that PR did it and he protected her against the world. Who could prove him wrong?

Because I think that one of the Rs killed JBR and they have all hidden behind lawyers, accused an assortment of friends and strangers of being the killer and benefited financially from her murder, I do not feel sorry for them. I hope they get what they have coming, which is to be exposed by the truth.

How odd that CBS may be the entity to solve this murder when everyone else failed JBR.
 
TeaTime said:
How odd that CBS may be the entity to solve this murder when everyone else failed JBR.
Click to expand...

True, but I think the BPD could easily have solved this case if not for being purposely thwarted by Hunter and then Lacy. In my opinion that is where the answer to this case lies. Make those two accountable for the corruption they perpetrated and the puzzle will quickly fall in to place.
 
And BTW, will the WS suit be run independently of the CBS case? Will all the key figures be deposed twice?
 
andreww said:
And BTW, will the WS suit be run independently of the CBS case? Will all the key figures be deposed twice?
Click to expand...
I think the first question is, are they both properly venued? Apparently Spitz lives in Michigan, but does Burke? And why was the second case brought in Michigan? If both cases remain in the Circuit Court of Wayne County, it's possible, if not likely they will be combined, for the very reason you indicate.
 
I'm reading Burke Ramsey Complaint vs CBS Et Al on Scribd. Check it out: https://www.scribd.com/book/335233640

"The defendants are being sued in the state of Michigan based on personal residence of Spitz and pursuant to the Michigan long-arm statute."
According to the document BR works and lives in Charlevoix County, Michigan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TeaTime said:
The 2 Ramsey survivors and their attorneys have made murder very profitable. As I have stated before, nothing convinced me that BR was the most likely suspect more than his appearance on Dr. Phil. And, since his appearance was before the CBS show aired, it seems he became a public figure with the blessing of his father and LW.

But, this lawsuit will be interesting. BR will have to submit to hours and hours of depositions as he is questioned by attorneys for, and in the presence of, each named defendant. He, through LW, will have to prove the allegations of his petition for damages. "I didn't do it will not suffice. He will have to prove that what CBS published is false and was known to be false when published and that it was intended to harm the character of BR, a public figure, whom they knew to be innocent. Daddy will not be allowed to participate and no one will hold any punches as CBS attorneys ruthlessly paperwork LW to death.

JR will be subjected to brutal cross examination in deposition as well. Maybe, just maybe, the agony of seeing BR dissected in public will be enough for JR to finally confess that PR did it and he protected her against the world. Who could prove him wrong?

Because I think that one of the Rs killed JBR and they have all hidden behind lawyers, accused an assortment of friends and strangers of being the killer and benefited financially from her murder, I do not feel sorry for them. I hope they get what they have coming, which is to be exposed by the truth.

How odd that CBS may be the entity to solve this murder when everyone else failed JBR.
Click to expand...

If and when BR has to be questioned before a jury, he better grow up and act like a 29 plus yr old man. In his Dr Phil interview he acted like a 10 yr old child. A jury will see right thru that act. He may put himself out into the public eye further than he ever dreamed of and NOT walk away with the money.
MOO
 
HarmonyE. said:
I think the first question is, are they both properly venued? Apparently Spitz lives in Michigan, but does Burke? And why was the second case brought in Michigan? If both cases remain in the Circuit Court of Wayne County, it's possible, if not likely they will be combined, for the very reason you indicate.
Click to expand...

As far as venue- check this out. Apparently the Ramsey's filed in Georgia in 2004 but the venue was changed to CO. This applies to an old case of Ramsey vs. Fox News. Just to provide some history.
https://casetext.com/case/ramsey-v-fox-news-network


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
andreww said:
Thats an old case, Rs vs Fox. This case is Rs vs CBS.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is correct from 2004-2005. I provided the history on how the FOX case was dismissed with prejudice. Too late to clarify in my post above yours. To understand the laws that apply to the Ramsey vs. CBS case I have tried to just supply a little history.

Just edited to clarify. Sorry for any confusion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
observation said:
Yes, that is correct from 2004-2005. I provided the history on how the FOX case was dismissed with prejudice. Too late to clarify in my post above yours. To understand the laws that apply to the Ramsey vs. CBS case I have tried to just supply a little history.

Just edited to clarify. Sorry for any confusion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No problem, I was pretty sure you were aware of it but it might be confusing for those that didn't know about that case.
 
kanzz said:
For a piece of fantasy / fiction - check out this nonsense:

The JonBenet Ramsey case, according to Burke Ramsey
70 Points Burke Ramsey says prove his innocence

Nothing on this list even comes close to proving the innocence of any Ramsey, let alone Burke. Much of it is an outright lie.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute...

After the family returned home, John and Patsy Ramsey put the children to bed and soon went to bed as well.
Click to expand...

What about Burke assembling the toy with John?

Neither John and Patsy, nor Burke woke up during the night that led into Dec. 26.
Burke did not leave his bedroom that night.
Click to expand...

But he just said on DP special that he did sneak out of his room

And how is any of that "according to Burke Ramsey". That is just copied from the filing against CBS, so its according to Lin Wood.
 
andreww said:
Wait a minute...



What about Burke assembling the toy with John?



But he just said on DP special that he did sneak out of his room

And how is any of that "according to Burke Ramsey". That is just copied from the filing against CBS, so its according to Lin Wood.
Click to expand...

It's possible, within the Ramsey narrative, for Burke to have gone back downstairs after getting ready for bed, thinking the rest of the family had gone to bed, then John finding him downstairs playing, helping him with his toy then putting him to bed and going to bed himself. There is nothing that proves the parents had actually gone to bed when Burke thought they had, except that they weren't downstairs when he crept down there.
 
Tortoise said:
It's possible, within the Ramsey narrative, for Burke to have gone back downstairs after getting ready for bed, thinking the rest of the family had gone to bed, then John finding him downstairs playing, helping him with his toy then putting him to bed and going to bed himself. There is nothing that proves the parents had actually gone to bed when Burke thought they had, except that they weren't downstairs when he crept down there.
Click to expand...


Tortoise, what you're suggesting is not within John's official narrative.


4/30/97 Boulder Police Interview
...Uh JonBenet had fallen fast to sleep. Uh, I carried her inside and took her upstairs and put her in bed, put her on her bed. Uh Patsy came up behind me, and then I went down to get Burke ready for bed, he was down in the living room, working on a toy he got putting it together, and tried to get him to go to bed because we had to get up early the next morning, but he wanted to get this toy put together, so I worked with him on that for 10 15 minutes probably; and then I took him up to bed and got his pajamas on, probably brushed his teeth, and then I went up stairs from there and got ready for bed. I read her a little bit. The lights went out around ten-thirtyish or ten-forty.
TT: How did you sleep Christmas night?
JR: I took a Melatonin tablet because I wanted to get to sleep fast because we had to get up early, and I slept through the night.


12/12/01 Deposition
20 Q. Do you remember whether she woke up
21 at any time between the time you saw her asleep
22 in the car and the time you put her to bed?
23 A. She did not.
24 Q. At that point, after you put her to
25 bed, what, if anything, did you do?
0028
1 A. I went downstairs to get Burke in
2 bed. He was putting together a little plastic toy
3 that he had gotten for Christmas. I helped him
4 finish it so he could get off to bed. And we
5 did that, and then I went to bed myself.
6 Q. When you say you went to bed
7 yourself, do you remember exactly the sequence by
8 which you prepared for going to bed that night?
9 A. I think I took my clothes off,
10 brushed my teeth, put my pajamas on, and crawled
11 into bed. That's --
12 Q. Did you do anything else?
13 A. Not that I remember.
14 Q. Did you use anything to help yourself
15 go to sleep?
16 A. I took a melatonin tablet.
17 Q. Do you know the amount of melatonin
18 you took?
19 A. No. It was an over-the-counter
20 tablet.
21 Q. Was it a single tablet or half a
22 tablet or two tablets?
23 A. I think it was a single tablet, as I
24 recall.
25 Q. Do you remember the brand?
0029
1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you know or remember whether or
3 not you read anything before going to sleep?
4 A. I read for a few minutes, as I
5 recall, before I turned the light out.
6 Q. Do you remember at any point Patsy
7 joining you in bed that night?
8 A. Patsy was in bed before I went to
9 bed.
10 Q. Do you remember what Patsy was wearing
11 when she got into bed or was in bed?
12 A. I don't remember specifically, no.
13 Q. All right. Did you wake up at all
14 during the night?
15 A. I did not.
 
More of the same in the 6/23/98 interview:

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I started to get Burke
22 into bed; get him ready. And he was sitting in the
23 living room working on a toy, an assembly little
24 toy he got for Christmas. And I could see that I
25 was going to get him to go easy. So I sat down and
0115
1 helped him put it together to try to expedite the
2 process. So we did that together and it took us
3 ten or twenty minutes, I guess. And then he went
4 up to bed. And then we went up to bed. And I think
5 we used the front stairs (INAUDIBLE).
6 LOU SMIT: And what time was it that you got
7 (INAUDIBLE)?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It was probably nineish, 9:15
9 maybe. (INAUDIBLE).
10 LOU SMIT: So you looked for Burke?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Then I got Burke on his
12 way to bed. I guess I must have gotten him for
13 bed, but I don't remember now for sure. But he got
14 in bed, and by the time I got to bed I think Patsy
15 had already been.
16 LOU SMIT: You just go right directly from
17 Burke and came upstairs? Is that what your saying?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. I believe so.
19 LOU SMIT: And what is your routine then?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I just got ready for bed:
21 brushed my teeth probably. I did take a Melatonin
22 that night.
23 LOU SMIT: Where do you keep that?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Just in my medicine or in my
25 sink or in the drawer because I wanted to get to
0116
1 sleep right away, to sleep well, because I knew I
2 had to get up the next morning early. And I might
3 have read for a few minutes; I think I did. It was
4 probably tenish or something in that range.
5 LOU SMIT: Okay. So now did Patsy precede you
6 into bed or you did say that she went to bed. Do
7 you remember saying anything important?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Important? I know that she might
9 have been asleep. I don't remember saying
10 anything. Patsy is called the sleep queen when she
11 goes to sleep. When she goes to sleep, she gets in
12 bed and she goes to sleep.
13 LOU SMIT: When you normally go to bed, and
14 especially that night, everybody has a way of
15 getting rid of the (INAUDIBLE) they got on
16 (INAUDIBLE). What is your habit of doing that? I
17 mean, what do you remember doing that night?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Normally, and I don't mean
19 specifically, normally I would have changed in the
20 bathroom. Sometimes I would hang the clothes on
21 the hook on the back of the door. We had the
22 laundry chute. If the stuff was dirty I would
23 typically take it to the laundry chute.
24 LOU SMIT: Can you think of anything
25 specifically (INAUDIBLE)?
0117
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I really don't remember.
2 LOU SMIT: No. Did either you or Patsy feed
3 JonBenet anything before you went to bed?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
5 LOU SMIT: An you are positive?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I am positive. She was sound
7 asleep. And I certainly didn't and just based on
8 discussions afterward, and then Patsy said she did
9 not.
10 LOU SMIT: What does Patsy normally do with
11 her clothing when she gets into bed?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Where it lands is where it
13 stays.
14 LOU SMIT: Oh, I see.
15 JOHN RAMSEY: She usually changes in the
16 bathroom so it's usually draped over the tub and
17 off to bed.
18 LOU SMIT: Now do you put on pajamas (INAUDIBLE)?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Usually. Usually. I don't remember
20 now what I had on, but yeah, usually I wear some
21 kind of pajamas, yeah.
22 LOU SMIT: How about Patsy?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
24 LOU SMIT: She wears pajamas also?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
0118
1 LOU SMIT: Normally all to bed?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: To bed.
3 LOU SMIT: And you said the normal procedure
4 is to brush your teeth and everything?
5 (INAUDIBLE).
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't that night. No.
7 LOU SMIT: Now let's think throughout the
8 night. I know you probably thought that a 100
9 times. Did you hear anything throughout the night?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Not a thing.
 
Tortoise said:
It occurred to me just the other day, that Patsy was using the children's doctor to get illegal scripts for whatever it was she may have been hooked on. Beuf was called to see Patsy on 26th, not her own doctor. Plus she had phoned him 3 times on 17th December and couldn't remember why. No doctor notes of the reason for the apparent urgency. And a hell of a lot of consultations for JBR over how many years? Did it start after her cancer treatment?

It's glaringly obvious to me now, why there was this island of privacy around the children's medical records. I don't know why it didn't jump out at me before.
Click to expand...

I think you could be onto something with this theory! Patsy would never want it known she was addicted to prescription drugs. It had the potential to make her look like a bad and neglectful mother. I wonder if the Grand Jury ever found out anything about this and if it could be part of their conclusion that the parents placed JBR in an unsafe environment. Patsy could not effectively monitor her children if she was taking too many pills, leading to her not taking enough action in regard to Burke's behavior.
 
Meara said:
More of the same in the 6/23/98 interview:

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I started to get Burke
22 into bed; get him ready. And he was sitting in the
23 living room working on a toy, an assembly little
24 toy he got for Christmas. And I could see that I
25 was going to get him to go easy. So I sat down and
0115
1 helped him put it together to try to expedite the
2 process. So we did that together and it took us
3 ten or twenty minutes, I guess. And then he went
4 up to bed. And then we went up to bed. And I think
5 we used the front stairs (INAUDIBLE).
6 LOU SMIT: And what time was it that you got
7 (INAUDIBLE)?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It was probably nineish, 9:15
9 maybe. (INAUDIBLE).
10 LOU SMIT: So you looked for Burke?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Then I got Burke on his
12 way to bed. I guess I must have gotten him for
13 bed, but I don't remember now for sure. But he got
14 in bed, and by the time I got to bed I think Patsy
15 had already been.
16 LOU SMIT: You just go right directly from
17 Burke and came upstairs? Is that what your saying?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. I believe so.
19 LOU SMIT: And what is your routine then?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I just got ready for bed:
21 brushed my teeth probably. I did take a Melatonin
22 that night.
23 LOU SMIT: Where do you keep that?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Just in my medicine or in my
25 sink or in the drawer because I wanted to get to
0116
1 sleep right away, to sleep well, because I knew I
2 had to get up the next morning early. And I might
3 have read for a few minutes; I think I did. It was
4 probably tenish or something in that range.
5 LOU SMIT: Okay. So now did Patsy precede you
6 into bed or you did say that she went to bed. Do
7 you remember saying anything important?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Important? I know that she might
9 have been asleep. I don't remember saying
10 anything. Patsy is called the sleep queen when she
11 goes to sleep. When she goes to sleep, she gets in
12 bed and she goes to sleep.
13 LOU SMIT: When you normally go to bed, and
14 especially that night, everybody has a way of
15 getting rid of the (INAUDIBLE) they got on
16 (INAUDIBLE). What is your habit of doing that? I
17 mean, what do you remember doing that night?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Normally, and I don't mean
19 specifically, normally I would have changed in the
20 bathroom. Sometimes I would hang the clothes on
21 the hook on the back of the door. We had the
22 laundry chute. If the stuff was dirty I would
23 typically take it to the laundry chute.
24 LOU SMIT: Can you think of anything
25 specifically (INAUDIBLE)?
0117
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I really don't remember.
2 LOU SMIT: No. Did either you or Patsy feed
3 JonBenet anything before you went to bed?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
5 LOU SMIT: An you are positive?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I am positive. She was sound
7 asleep. And I certainly didn't and just based on
8 discussions afterward, and then Patsy said she did
9 not.
10 LOU SMIT: What does Patsy normally do with
11 her clothing when she gets into bed?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Where it lands is where it
13 stays.
14 LOU SMIT: Oh, I see.
15 JOHN RAMSEY: She usually changes in the
16 bathroom so it's usually draped over the tub and
17 off to bed.
18 LOU SMIT: Now do you put on pajamas (INAUDIBLE)?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Usually. Usually. I don't remember
20 now what I had on, but yeah, usually I wear some
21 kind of pajamas, yeah.
22 LOU SMIT: How about Patsy?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
24 LOU SMIT: She wears pajamas also?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
0118
1 LOU SMIT: Normally all to bed?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: To bed.
3 LOU SMIT: And you said the normal procedure
4 is to brush your teeth and everything?
5 (INAUDIBLE).
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't that night. No.
7 LOU SMIT: Now let's think throughout the
8 night. I know you probably thought that a 100
9 times. Did you hear anything throughout the night?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Not a thing.
Click to expand...

Interesting that John tells responding officers that he read to the kids, Later he changes the story saying he was misunderstood and that he had put the kids to bed, then read to himself. In the Smit interview there is no mention of reading. Deception at every corner with these people.
 
andreww said:
Interesting that John tells responding officers that he read to the kids, Later he changes the story saying he was misunderstood and that he had put the kids to bed, then read to himself. In the Smit interview there is no mention of reading. Deception at every corner with these people.
Click to expand...


No kidding. But that melatonin - he makes sure to mention that every time. The original product placement guy. Maybe he'll write another book and call it The Other Side of Sleep.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 161 more.
Total: 3,640 (members: 162, guests: 3,478)

Online statistics

Members online
162
Guests online
3,478
Total visitors
3,640
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,507
Messages
17,970,102
Members
228,789
Latest member
redhairdontcare
Back
Top