Was Burke involved?

[acts13_48]

I have been reading on this forum since I was referred here from the Laci boards at CourtTv. I really appreciate that this case has not been forgotten. There are several cases in the news involving young offenders, the NY 9 year old girl who stabbed her friend over a ball dispute, and the 7 year old boy in Florida who murdered his infant sister because of jealousy. I have had a hunch that BR played a part in this crime since first reading about it. A dear friend of mine from work one day confided to me through her tears that they would be sending their 13 year old son to live with his aunt after discovering he was molesting his 7 year old step-sister. The reason that came out in his counseling sessions was his intense jealousy, he wanted to hurt his step father and the best way to do it was to harm his baby girl. An interesting parallel to this case, the little girl is a beautiful little blondie like JBR. Her parents obviously show the little girl favor over her 2 step brothers and one real brother. She is in ballet, swimming, even modeling. This experience of knowing a real teenager (not sure how long the molestation went on) could do this to his own step sister confirmed for me the possibility that BR could have done this to JBR. I have read on this forum that Colorado has specific child crimes protection laws that may explain a supposed cover-up by authorities there. My question is, it seems with the case in NY that the 9 year old girl will be dealt with through juvenile court. Although they haven't mentioned the suspects name, it is being reported that she was 'arrested' and appeared in court. What is it about Colorado that wouldn't permit a child to be dealt with by a lesser court while still protecting his identity? The Florida case seems to have revealed the identity of the perp, indirectly at least, by identifying him as the step brother.

 

[BlueCrab]

acts13_48,

As you know, each state has its own laws covering juvenile crimes. In Colorado any child under the age of 10 cannot be charged with anything, no matter how serious the offense he or she committed. In Colorado the district attorney (in the JonBenet Ramsey case Alex Hunter) has complete jurisdiction in how to dispose of crimes involving offenders under the age of 10. The disposition can range from nothing to incarceration in a special facility; and almost always involves psychological or psychiatric counselling. BR was 4 weeks away from being 10 when JBR was murdered.

There are 27 states that have no minimum age. Among the remaining states the minimum age to be charged as an adult ranges from 7 in New York to 15 in Louisiana. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that no person under the age of 15 can be executed.

BlueCrab

 

[acts13_48]

Thanks bluecrab! So, it sounds as if Alex Hunter had/has some discretion on how to handle this. I'm questioning my own BDI theory here, and wondering especially if JAR was involved, why there wasn't some therapy ordered for the younger perp and JAR charged. Unless it was found that JAR was the childrens tutor in the past, but not involved on this particular occasion. I'm struggling to make the cover-up to protect a juvenile theory work, and having trouble since it appears there were other avenues to handling a young perp. Maybe this is where various pressures on Alex Hunter convinced him to use his discretion, leaving the case unsolved.

 

[Toltec]

Yes...children do awful things like murder and molestation. Just the other day I read where a couple were arrested for allowing their two older children 10 and 12 years old to molest their three younger siblings...age 2 a 18 mo old and even a young infant as young as one month old!

Jealousy plays a large part in what children do, and my belief is that the parents are very much to blame for their childrens jealousy. Playing favorites is not only a bad decision...it can become a deadly one.

 

[tipper]

Yes...children do awful things like murder and molestation. Just the other day I read where a couple were arrested for allowing their two older children 10 and 12 years old to molest their three younger siblings...age 2 a 18 mo old and even a young infant as young as one month old!

Jealousy plays a large part in what children do, and my belief is that the parents are very much to blame for their childrens jealousy. Playing favorites is not only a bad decision...it can become a deadly one.

I agree. The way to avoid jealousy is to meet each child's individual needs and not try and be a cookie cutter in terms of how each kid is handled. I don't think Burke had a hankering to be in beauty pageants but he was wild about video games. He also was active with his father in the boat races etc. As I recall Patsy arranged a big birthday party for him at ChuckECheese or some such restaurant. I think both those kids felt loved and appreciated for themselves as individuals.

 

[britgirl]

IMO, was not involved. I feel so sorry for him. His life has to be hell.

I agree. I don't believe this boy sexually assaulted, garotted and fractured the skull of his sister.

 

[nature_of_the_beast]

I was always of the opinoin that Burke was the one that did it, (My own) so I did some reaserch over a few years and have now lost allot of my research, but I always kept a link that stuck out to me for prosperity.
here it is:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7615/burke.html
It is interesting to read, some may not think so.
Very interesting story, I always felt sorry for JB.:twocents: Patsy is mean. (IMO)
R.M.

Sorry if this one's been polled before, if it has, mods feel free to remove the post.

From what I know (not much ), I say probably YES Burke was involved. I am not sure of myself on this one, though!

 

[Rupert]

I have seen the site before:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7615/burke.html
and I considered the Burk did it scenario (which seems prevalent on this forum recently).

GuruJosh, I would like to see that printing example of Burk's: "That's my mom". If you state publicly that it's alot like the RN, then you should post the printing example along with your opinion. Next thing you know it will be a fact quoted by the rags.

I find it hard to believe the BDI. I think Blue Crab has a theory based mostly on his conclusions about the Ramsays behaviour. God forbid, if it happened to any father in his own house, that father would not turn away legal advice. However, I too have concerns about the actions of the Ramsays, their friends and the BPD in the house that morning.

John doesn't look in the room in the morning. Why?
French doesn't look in the room. Why?
Fleet White doesn't see JonBenet when he looks in the room. Why?
I haven't seen any good enough reasons why.

I also wondered about that golf club injury from before, but the injury to the head appeared to be so violent yet without blood. It appeared to me that JonBenet was strangled in an act of premeditated murder.

I have mentioned before on other threads the belief by many others that this crime is connected to Leopold and Loeb (1924 The Crime of the Century). The perp may have wanted to do one better before the century was out. In TCTC, Higdon noted that Leopold and Loeb intended to "strangle and bash" so as to tie one another together. This theme was repeated in the movies Compulsion and Rope. Yes, this seems so fantastic compared to BDI, JDI, or PDI in some phase of home stress situation. But consider the RN with its definite kidnap movie connections. They are there and left as a clue. In L&L, they first intended to kill and the RN was just a ruse. It would not be much of a step for the perp to take, to study Leopold and Loeb and try to do one better.

 

[GuruJosh]

GuruJosh, I would like to see that printing example of Burk's: "That's my mom". If you state publicly that it's alot like the RN, then you should post the printing example along with your opinion. Next thing you know it will be a fact quoted by the rags.

check the ACR site, it's there under "Patsy Ramsey Handwriting Exemplars" or something similar. Will take you approx 2 minutes to find.

and it's "Burke"

 

[Rupert]

Thanks GJ.
But I just don't get the eery similarity.
http://blabbieville.tripod.com/samplebaby2.jpg

 

[GuruJosh]

Thanks GJ.
But I just don't get the eery similarity.
http://blabbieville.tripod.com/samplebaby2.jpg

There is a thread on it here:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22473

personally i think it's pretty compelling, but i certainly dont claim it to be certain. It's a hunch, and we're allowed to have hunches here The whole bloody forum is one big hunch, really.

 

[BlueCrab]

GuruJosh,

I also believe it to be compelling. The handwriting in the captions of Burke's personal photo album matches the handwriting in the ransom note. It's not Patsy's handwriting in the album. It's Burke's handwriting -- just read it.

The evidence comes from two sources. The CBI's handwriting experts who couldn't eliminate Burke as the writer of the note; and Darnay Hoffman's handwriting experts who said that whoever wrote the captions likely wrote the ransom note.

The evidence is compelling that Burke wrote the ransom note.

BlueCrab

 

[Nehemiah]

I have friends who do scrapbooking and it is not unusual for them to have their kids help them out. Many of the kids cut out the designs, choose the pictures, and even write captions. But, for the most part, the women I know who do scrapbooking attend get-togethers where they sit with other women and socialize while doing the scrapbooks. Many of them do their kids' books and write captions in the first person. I guess it could be up for grabs as to who actually wrote the caption about Mom and the dr.--Patsy or Burke.

I don't think the writing looks like that of a young boy. It looks too mature, and more like Patsy's to me, and it does eerily resemble the ransom note. Also, whoever filled out the tax form that floated around on the forum a few years ago looked exactly like the ransom note, IMO. I've not seen the tax form since that time.

 

[BlueCrab]

I guess it could be up for grabs as to who actually wrote the caption about Mom and the dr.--Patsy or Burke.

Nehemiah,

If Patsy wrote the captions, why would she write:

"This me when I was first born. That's my Mom and the doctor."

If Patsy wrote it there's no cute advantage to her leaving out the word "is" in the first sentence. And there's no cute advantage to her capitalizing the word "mom" in the second sentence.

Unnecessary capitalizations also appeared in the ransom note:

"Law enforcement"; and "Police".

Patsy has a bachelor's degree in journalism and wouldn't be teaching Burke bad grammar and capitalization.

I think the weight of the evidence leans toward Burke writing the note.

BlueCrab

 

[K777angel]

Nehemiah,

If Patsy wrote the captions, why would she write:

"This me when I was first born. That's my Mom and the doctor."

If Patsy wrote it there's no cute advantage to her leaving out the word "is" in the first sentence. And there's no cute advantage to her capitalizing the word "mom" in the second sentence.

Unnecessary capitalizations also appeared in the ransom note:

"Law enforcement"; and "Police".

Patsy has a bachelor's degree in journalism and wouldn't be teaching Burke bad grammar and capitalization.

I think the weight of the evidence leans toward Burke writing the note.

BlueCrab

The captions written are not in the slightest bit unusual because they are written in the first person (as if Burke wrote it) - by the mother! Very typical. I did the SAME thing in my children's baby and scrapbooks.
The fact that the handwriting in them is similar to the fake ransom note is completely understandable because Patsy wrote them BOTH!!

 

[BlueCrab]

The captions written are not in the slightest bit unusual because they are written in the first person (as if Burke wrote it) - by the mother! Very typical. I did the SAME thing in my children's baby and scrapbooks.
The fact that the handwriting in them is similar to the fake ransom note is completely understandable because Patsy wrote them BOTH!!

Angel,

According to the consensus of the six expert examiners appointed by the CBI, it was highly unlikely that Patsy wrote the ransom note. These six examiners were the only ones who had all of the exemplars and the original note to work with (the note was destructively tested afterwards while trying to chemically obtain fingerprints from it). I'll agree everytime with six experts who separately reach a unanimous conclusion.

Also, why did the CBI reveal the results of John's and Patsy's handwriting examinations, but not the result of Burke's examination? The only way we know the CBI couldn't eliminate Burke as the writer was from the wording of the BPD's application to the court to obtain a search warrant for the Charlevoix house in Michigan. What are they hiding? Are they hiding a unanimous conclusion by six experts that Burke Ramsey likely wrote the ransom note? I think so.

BlueCrab

 

[Nehemiah]

Also, why did the CBI reveal the results of John's and Patsy's handwriting examinations, but not the result of Burke's examination? The only way we know the CBI couldn't eliminate Burke as the writer was from the wording of the BPD's application to the court to obtain a search warrant for the Charlevoix house in Michigan. What are they hiding? Are they hiding a unanimous conclusion by six experts that Burke Ramsey likely wrote the ransom note? I think so. BlueCrab

Refresh my memory on the wording. Thanks.

 

[BlueCrab]

Refresh my memory on the wording. Thanks.

For the Charlevoix search warrant of 3/6/97 CBI Agent Chet Ubowski furnished the following information to Detective Linda Arndt (This was after the CBI analyzed the handwriting of John, Patsy, and Burke but before the historical samples from Patsy were obtained from Charlevoix):

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from John Ramsey showed "indications" that John Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Burke Ramsey showed that it was "probable" that Burke Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Patsy Ramsey showed "indications" which suggest that Patsy Ramsey may have written the reported ransom note."

IOW, Ubowski concluded it was "probable" that Burke didn't write it, even though there were no "indications" that he didn't write it. The wording suggests some subjective reasoning taking place due to Burke's age despite indications that he could have written it.

Since there were INDICATIONS that John didn't write it; and there were INDICATIONS that Patsy did write it; then Burke should have fallen into one of those two categories.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

The best guess that I can make is that we have a devious ransom note writer.

Per Johnny Cochran, when the gloves donut fit yah dah da da.

Imop, the note writer wore gloves just to be sure no dna, no fingerprints. A very careful note writer, BUT BUT not a careful criminal since there was some dubious dna in JonBenets panties. Henree Ree say, na a dna case.

So, gloves on, the writer is an 'artist' skilled in making lines, sketching, maneuvering those lines with a skilled brush to make things appear as they should. The writer has a way with words to include common expressions of a southern nature. The writer is skilled and accustomed to being ambidextrous.

I sa, in concrusion mae opinon iz, dat PR rote da note. Now the lights go out, the gun goes bang, and there is a loud scream. This is my best effort at what Charlie Chan would have surmised. CBI, I donut know if da wouda *advertiser censored* to da same concrusion, erly on, hmmm. Da reeson I say dat is cuz at da time of dere concrusion, all facks were NOT none about PR.

I also say all concrusions shoud not be made til all facks are none.

Have a niz day.

Edited to add Oh I forgot, sinz ree (I) know who rote da note, all ree hav to do NOW is figger out why shee rote the note, to perteck hersef or to perteck a family member.
.

 

[K777angel]

For the Charlevoix search warrant of 3/6/97 CBI Agent Chet Ubowski furnished the following information to Detective Linda Arndt (This was after the CBI analyzed the handwriting of John, Patsy, and Burke but before the historical samples from Patsy were obtained from Charlevoix):

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from John Ramsey showed "indications" that John Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Burke Ramsey showed that it was "probable" that Burke Ramsey did not write the reported ransom note."

o "The analysis of the handwriting samples obtained from Patsy Ramsey showed "indications" which suggest that Patsy Ramsey may have written the reported ransom note."

IOW, Ubowski concluded it was "probable" that Burke didn't write it, even though there were no "indications" that he didn't write it. The wording suggests some subjective reasoning taking place due to Burke's age despite indications that he could have written it.

Since there were INDICATIONS that John didn't write it; and there were INDICATIONS that Patsy did write it; then Burke should have fallen into one of those two categories.

BlueCrab

Bluecrab - They said there were "indications" that Patsy Ramsey WROTE the ransom note!! Hello!!!!!!!!!
A big fat DUH!!!!

And they DID examine Burke Ramsey's handwriting and said it wasn't even "probable" that he wrote it.

Move on! He did NOT write that note!! His mother did.