Was there more than one shirt?

[Harmony 2]

BBM

Was this the 13" piece of tape? Just thinking maybe she pinned her arms to her side, wrapping the tape around the belly and arms. I would think that length of tape would be enough.

No. The 13.5"X2" piece was Q318 and it was found close to the neighbor's fence IIRC. I do not think it was a Henkel brand duct tape. Two other pieces were found close by also not Henkel. Q104 is a Henkel duct tape piece found with her remains after they were scattered. It is not 13 inches long. The Henkel piece did not have limb hairs on it. It did, however, have fringe hairs.

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...otosofducttapeclothingshovel/indexGallery.htm

page 19 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/gascanarguepullupsremains.pdf

(Note: This is my recollection so please feel free to make corrections if incorrect.)

 

[Tuffy]

picture a child lying on thier back or side (possibly in fetal position?), tape from one arm, across belly to maybe halfway around the back, enough to bind the arms to the body but not all the way around the body. Would be plenty long enough. It wouldn't need to go all the way around to bind them, IMO.

Yeah, I think that would be enough to keep the arms still.

I guess I'm just not realizing how sticky duct tape is. I was thinking more in terms of band-aid adhesive. You know, like maybe the ends would need to overlap in order to stay put.

But tape sufficiently sticky would do it, without overlapping I guess.

 

[Valhall]

Okay, I believe I've found what the cloth with the purple strip is. Dr. G, in the autopsy, describes a rectangular piece of fabric with a 9-1/2" purple strip that she believes to be a pull-up. That must be what this other thing is and not a second shirt.

 

[sleutherontheside]

OH...Valhall....That makes sense I remember that not only do pull ups have the insert to wick moisture away from the body BUT they have those panels on the side that tear away for easy removal and they offer elastic qualities so the pull up can expand within the recommended weight groups / sizes. Let me see if I can find a photo.

http://www.babydealsonwheels.com/images/2T3TG.jpg

 

[snow_walker]

I can't decide.. does that 13 inch pice of tape look like it is 'complete'? Or has some of the end been gnawed away? If so, it might have been a longer piece, and might have gone further around her body, if it were applied at her tummy area.

edit: It looks to me like it is shorter than 13 inches when I look at the ruler beneath it.. although hard to tell, as it is not laying flat. But really, seems like it is about half that long.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I can't decide.. does that 13 inch pice of tape look like it is 'complete'? Or has some of the end been gnawed away? If so, it might have been a longer piece, and might have gone further around her body, if it were applied at her tummy area.

edit: It looks to me like it is shorter than 13 inches when I look at the ruler beneath it.. although hard to tell, as it is not laying flat. But really, seems like it is about half that long.

The 4th piece of tape, IIRC, the one that was not recovered on the skull is only 7 and 1/2 inches long. The 13" piece was on the skull, I believe. Understandably, they're all getting mixed up and confused with all these threads. . . Cross-threaded? :crazy: And, then, as though I wasn't confused enough, in the picture of this 4th piece the photograph shows its size by using a 6" ruler, rather than a 12". No wonder we're all having trouble keeping everything straight. (Or maybe not ~ Maybe I'm the only one all mixed up.) It wouldn't be the first time!!!! :waitasec:

 

[Valhall]

Okay, so I have a question.

*sigh*

Do the neck muscles/ligaments decompose rapidly? Would it be normal for her neck to decompose to where her head didn't stay with her body when the animals started dragging her off?

I know it's a terribly thing to discuss, but I'm seriously wanting to know. Is that normal?

 

[sleutherontheside]

Okay, so I have a question.*sigh*Do the neck muscles/ligaments decompose rapidly?* Would it be normal for her neck to decompose to where her head didn't stay with her body when the animals started dragging her off?I know it's a terribly thing to discuss, but I'm seriously wanting to know.* Is that normal?

I am looking for that info.* I am downloading info researched in West Texas.* Perhaps an MD can weigh in while we are looking into that.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Okay, so I have a question.

*sigh*

Do the neck muscles/ligaments decompose rapidly? Would it be normal for her neck to decompose to where her head didn't stay with her body when the animals started dragging her off?

I know it's a terribly thing to discuss, but I'm seriously wanting to know. Is that normal?

I think this might help:

Mobility demands a certain amount of loose attachment and after you’re dead everyone looking for a meal, be they a cannibal or carrion beetle; lion or wolf; maggot or mite; bacterium or fungus, follows the path of least resistance when they start dismantling you. That’s determined by the architecture of your joints (i.e. tendons, ligaments, etc.). Juveniles are different–their bones generally come apart at the epiphyses, where they are still growing and unfused, before they detach at the actual joints. The loosest (adult) connections are where your jaw attaches to your skull, your head attaches to your neck and where your tail (if you have one) and limbs attach to your trunk. Hill, by observing thousands of skeletons learned the disarticulation sequence of each major unit or appendage.

They go on to give the sequence: http://slothcentral.com/archives/10

 

[Valhall]

I think this might help:

Mobility demands a certain amount of loose attachment and after you’re dead everyone looking for a meal, be they a cannibal or carrion beetle; lion or wolf; maggot or mite; bacterium or fungus, follows the path of least resistance when they start dismantling you. That’s determined by the architecture of your joints (i.e. tendons, ligaments, etc.). Juveniles are different–their bones generally come apart at the epiphyses, where they are still growing and unfused, before they detach at the actual joints. The loosest (adult) connections are where your jaw attaches to your skull, your head attaches to your neck and where your tail (if you have one) and limbs attach to your trunk. Hill, by observing thousands of skeletons learned the disarticulation sequence of each major unit or appendage.

They go on to give the sequence: http://slothcentral.com/archives/10

Thank you so much! I tried to find this myself and just ended flat busted. I appreciate it so much.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Ok....here is a wee snip about decomp but I am including the link to this info to read as there is too much to post here.



Here is the linkhttp://etd.lib.ttu.edu/theses/available/etd-07012008-31295019476919/unrestricted/31295019476919.pdf


Also.....page 32 and 33 address the issue of carnivores and rodents indicating that the face and neck area may be attacked first. Interesting info.

 

[treeseeker]

I've given this some thought and did some reading. If there was a head wound, it would attract scavengers, but the head would be displaced. If there was tearing and dragging, the head would probably be displaced but somewhat relative to the rest of the body. If there were a ligature (duct tape) around the neck, so as to cause anaerobic conditions, as in the case with adipocere formation, the neck would, IMO, decompose at a faster rate than the body, which was simply bagged, possibly clothed. This would make separation of head and body easier.

Sorry for the ugly post.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Just an FYI...the file I linked above is HUGE......25MB. BUT contains VERY useful info regarding decomp rates considering factors such as size of body, weather, crime scene, etc....it also includes decomp rate infor regarding clothes and their contribution to decomp. So....if you have time take a peek. I am still reading it and keep coming across interesting info.