Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[KMouse]

or she had plenty of time also. She had a few days and that would be plenty of time.

TLM didn't own the car or have access to it. She didn't own the Blackberry. She didn't own the knife or the gym bag. She did not have access to any of these items once the heat was on.

 

[matou]

MR: "I don't know what I was doing that day"

@ 8:03 http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1675463

 

[Salem]

We don't yet have any proof of a rape only TLM's version. Maybe the little girl who was frightened out of her mind and had driven in a car for 2.5 - 3 hours and had to go to the bathroom had wet her pants for all we know so far. Maybe sweet concerned "T" told her to take off her wet pants.

It was MR that is alleged not to have any pants on. TLM's testimony is evidence. It is proof of the prosecution's case. The jury will decide how much weight to give TLM's testimony, but it is direct evidence.

Hope that helps,

Salem

 

[antiquegirl]

I wouldn't want to run into either of them. <shudder> I think we all know what TLM is capable of and someone like Rafferty who is accused of the same crime including sexual assault on a child, makes one want to hide their children until they're 40. What kind of monster covers up a murder? We know he was there. His lawyer admitted it in court.

(Respectfully snipped and BBM)

I'm troubled by the frequent use of the word "admitted" when referring to Derstine's questions in court. A defence attorney would never incriminate his own client. His questions to TLM where MTR's presence at the crime scene are merely suggestions as part of a hypothetical alternate scenario to the one previously claimed by her. If you're going to take that part of his questioning as an "admittance" of a fact, then you also have to take as facts the rest of Derstine's claims, such as these:

Melanie Nagy&#8207;@NagyCBC

Defence then suggest that #rafferty was no where near his car when Tori was killed.That he came back to find Tori dead.

Melanie Nagy&#8207;@NagyCBC

Defence then suggests that #rafferty tried to suggest taking Tori to a safe house and ending the situation.

You can't pick and choose which parts of Derstine's suggestions are fact and which are fiction. He admitted nothing. He was merely suggesting a different scenario.

As well, we have to consider Judge Heeney's instructions to the jury:

Gerry Dewan &#8207;@GerryDewanCTV

Justice Heeney reminds jury says contents of a question is not evidence, only the contents of testimony are evidence

At this point in the trial, there has been no direct evidence presented to show that MTR was at the crime scene. Presumably there will be some to come.

JMO

 

[matou]

He said that TLM babysat for her next door neighbour. He said he met her and I believe this is the neighbour who was suspicious of him and submitted his plate information.

Just before 1:15: http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1675463

 

[KMouse]

This clearly outlines the defence's theory, that MR did not know that Tori was even kidnapped until they were in Guelph or the Mt Forest area. So according to MR's lawyer, he didn't know Tori was kidnapped when Tori got in or was pushed in to the car.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html

and was caught on surveillance and at no time was Tori seen sitting in the back seat because she was on the floor. At no time has a witness come forward to say they saw the three of them (like at Tim Hortons) in the car. Tori was on the floor of the car....how could he not know she was kidnapped?
When he picked TLM & Tori up why was he not waiting at the school where all the other parents park to get their kids? Why was he hiding by the retirement home? Probably to be able to drive off if TLM was caught before she could get Tori in the car.

 

[Oldsoul2]

I've listened to his interview, IMO I'm really not understanding what the defense is trying to do here.

He out and out lied throughout the whole thing, didn't want to give names (IMO that's because he didn't want them to go ask these girls any questions about his character but he remembered the only guy he brought up that he apparently hardly knew and offered his last name right away)

So this is played for the jury, they get it that he in fact knew TLM, he was with her at the very least which makes him a liar. If his defense theory is to say that he was duped by TLM, he was just there, than how letting the jury know he is a professed liar, denied even being there from the get go, would they believe that he is innocent in any way?

 

[matou]

The name Kayla comes up at the end of the interview, as one of TLM's friends the officer lists off and asks MR is he knows.

@ 1:47 http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1675463

 

[snoofer]

(Respectfully snipped and BBM)

I'm troubled by the frequent use of the word "admitted" when referring to Derstine's questions in court. A defence attorney would never incriminate his own client. His questions to TLM where MTR's presence at the crime scene are merely suggestions as part of a hypothetical alternate scenario to the one previously claimed by her. If you're going to take that part of his questioning as and "admittance" of a fact, then you also have to take as facts the rest of Derstine's claims, such as these:




You can't pick and choose which parts of Derstine's suggestions are fact and which are fiction. He admitted nothing. He was merely suggesting a different scenario.

As well, we have to consider Judge Heeney's instructions to the jury:


At this point in the trial, there has been no direct evidence presented to show that MTR was at the crime scene. Presumably there will be some to come.

JMO

interesting post and very well stated.

 

[Salem]

This is the thread for the weekend. Discuss the week's events, etc.

Be respectful.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[KMouse]

BBM

Maybe for the drugs. Maybe, like he said in the interview, because he felt bad for her and wanted to help. In the video of them at the movie theater, it looked more to me like she was the one trying to latch onto him. JMO

I think he was only into her when she served a purpose. His usual tyoe of woman appears to be the single parent kind he can stay with. It appears that TLM hasn't read "he's just not that into you".

 

[matou]

I think he was only into her when she served a purpose. His usual tyoe of woman appears to be the single parent kind he can stay with. It appears that TLM hasn't read "he's just not that into you".

She may have read that book actually. She didn't call him back after their first encounter. HE came back looking for HER (?????) and asked her why she didn't call him back. JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

BBM: IMO, TLM, and criminals like her, can never be rehabilitated. I know that sounds extremely pessimistic, but, I just think that some criminals have genetic abnormalities, and that is not something that can be fixed.

JMO

ITA and I believe so do most experts. I'm no psychiatrist, but it seems pretty obvious that TLM is a psychopath. The nuking of her dog as a child is typical behavior for one, and then there are her gruesome fantasies of torture and murder, as well as her actual crimes. I have to wonder what other horrific deeds she has committed that no one even knows about. IMHO there is no way to change the way these people think, scheme, and act.

But I think what the poster meant by "rehabilitation" in this case was that it's possible that TLM might eventually become the type of model prisoner who may get transferred to a less secure institution at some point. Judging by her attack on a fellow inmate as recently as this January, I have serious doubts.

JMO

 

[Oldsoul2]

I think he was only into her when she served a purpose. His usual tyoe of woman appears to be the single parent kind he can stay with. It appears that TLM hasn't read "he's just not that into you".

That deserves an LOL!

 

[roseofsharon]

I think he was only into her when she served a purpose. His usual tyoe of woman appears to be the single parent kind he can stay with. It appears that TLM hasn't read "he's just not that into you".

He owed a former girlfriend in Guelph $2,000.00 in back rent. I really feel sorry for this woman -- that's a lot of money to lose. :maddening: imo

 

[snoofer]

ITA and I believe so do most experts. I'm no psychiatrist, but it seems pretty obvious that TLM is a psychopath. The nuking of her dog as a child is typical behavior for one, and then there are her gruesome fantasies of torture and murder, as well as her actual crimes. I have to wonder what other horrific deeds she has committed that no one even knows about. IMHO there is no way to change the way these people think, scheme, and act.

But I think what the poster meant by "rehabilitation" in this case was that it's possible that TLM might eventually become the type of model prisoner who may get transferred to a less secure institution at some point. Judging by her attack on a fellow inmate as recently as this January, I have serious doubts.

JMO

IMO i wonder if the recent altercation in prison for TLM in January may have been contrived for more ammunition for his defense if she was determined to take the fall and perhaps she could have even offered up the dog story for that purpose as well. I mean why would she try and HELP MTR based on how he is painting her unless she knew that was part of the parcel to help him. I dunno it doesn't make sense to me...but truly that is the point IMO is people so disturbed rarely do the most sensible things.

 

[roseofsharon]

ITA and I believe so do most experts. I'm no psychiatrist, but it seems pretty obvious that TLM is a psychopath. The nuking of her dog as a child is typical behavior for one, and then there are her gruesome fantasies of torture and murder, as well as her actual crimes. I have to wonder what other horrific deeds she has committed that no one even knows about. IMHO there is no way to change the way these people think, scheme, and act.

But I think what the poster meant by "rehabilitation" in this case was that it's possible that TLM might eventually become the type of model prisoner who may get transferred to a less secure institution at some point. Judging by her attack on a fellow inmate as recently as this January, I have serious doubts.

JMO

We can only be thankful she was found fit to stand trial, regardless of being a psychopath, otherwise she would have been housed in a mental health facility and since she is so cunning -- she could have feigned being rehabilitated and having remorse for her crime(s), and then graduate to day passes and then fly through that system and be living in the community within 2-3 years with supports in place -- not an ankle bracelet though -- a mental health professional she could call upon if she got to feeling in one of her moods or blood thirsty!!!

IMO - Pardon me -- fit to plead guilty! I realize she didn't go to trial.

 

[Salem]

He owed a former girlfriend in Guelph $2,000.00 in back rent. I really feel sorry for this woman -- that's a lot of money to lose. :maddening: imo

roseofsharon - do you have a link for this information, please?

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Oldsoul2]

TLM deserves even more than 25 years IMO, she is a violent, angry, "victim of life" ( I quote that because I personally do not believe in victim hood, bad circumstances yes, choices also yes) but she has waived trial and taken her punishment. She lied at first, it's true but in the end did not attempt to get away with it. The jury will take this into consideration without a doubt. MR is a sick, sick human being, lying from day one, still trying to get away with it, blaming it on other people, trying not to take any responsibility for the crime, this looks worse. IMO MR, have fun learning what comes around goes around, they loathe baby rapists and baby killers in prison, **** coward

 

[matou]

roseofsharon - do you have a link for this information, please?

Thanks,

Salem

I have one: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/21/9520751-sun.html

His interest in what she called "rough sex" and bondage -- he became angry when rebuffed -- strained the relationship. She ended it after $2,000 disappeared from her bank account.