What do JonBenet's clothes say?

[UKGuy]

17 TOM HANEY: Is it possible that some point
18 during the night she would have gotten up and put those
19 on or thrown them down there or changed in some way;
20 trying to account for those being there.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I just -- I can't imagine
22 that. No, because I put those -- she was zonked out
23 asleep, so I put her to bed. And she had those, she
24 had worn the black velvet ones to Priscilla's.
25 What she had on earlier that day, I just
0459
1 can't remember. It might have been those. I just
2 can't remember. Could have taken those off, you know,
3 gotten the dress to go to Priscilla's and then left
4 them there.

In the above statement Patsy says: "gotten the dress to go to Priscilla's ..."
Did she mean to say "gotten dressed" in stead of "gotten the dress",because the common knowledge is that she wore a white blouse and velvet pants,which Patsy also states further in the interview. Might have been a typo by the interviewer?

Just thinking out loud ...

I don't think Patsy did it ... but sometimes I wish she would get her thoughts together,and speak in complete sentences!!

capps,

Might be, although this could also be Patsy parsing her sentences internally to see if they map onto her current explanation, and possibly slipping up.

Patsy liked dressing up, so did JonBenet, this was developed further via her pageants.

At her xmas party Patsy allegedly encouraged JonBenet to wear a dress, apparently JonBenet was not too enthusiastic. Now if they were going visiting as in dinner at the Whites, it seems reasonable to assume that Patsy may have wanted JonBenet to wear a dress again, possibly she was trying impress upon JonBenet the finer points of dressing up etc.

So when Patsy says: "gotten the dress to go to Priscilla's ..." it may be correct and part of what was played out in the bathroom xmas day?

 

[sissi]

That "barbie's nightgown" says a lot about the intruder and his fetish. He likely intended to dress her as the "living doll".

 

[Camper]

That "barbie's nightgown" says a lot about the intruder and his fetish. He likely intended to dress her as the "living doll".

--------------->>>Welllllllll, 'he, her or they (the FF)' most likely knew that the Barbie gown was JonBenets favorite, so HOW would a stranger know that?

I need a source for it being her favorite gown, I know I read it, but after 8.5 years I cannot remember when or where I read it. I do know that it is firmly fixed in my mind.

Anyone remember that it was JonBenets favorite nighty, AND a source?



.

 

[lawman]

camper i think this idea of the favorite nightie is from questioning done concerning what items jbr took when pr and jbr were travelling for pageants.
there is some info on this i believe in "pmpt".
however as far as i know nothing was established about a favorite nightie.this is simply a myth.
the interesting question is imo,apparently some blood was found on the nightie(the wolf,ramsey case). how does this tie into the crime ? or had the nightie simply clung to the white blanket by static electricity as lhp speculates and then came into contact with jbr`s blood coincidentally.

 

[MlazyV]

That "barbie's nightgown" says a lot about the intruder and his fetish. He likely intended to dress her as the "living doll".

I don't think it would fit. According to Ramsey interviews where they looked at pictures this wasn't JonBenet's nightgown. It was a shiny/vinyl/metallic costume for an extra big barbie doll.

 

[Toltec]

Still no answer for the "top" JonBenet wore Christmas day.

I too read that there was urine stain just outside the wine cellar door. The urine stain on JonBenet's panties suggested that she was on her tummy when she urinated.

Okay, JonBenet removes the soiled pants and dresses for the party at the Whites. Since Patsy has hardly any recollection of JonBenet undressing and dressing, then she would not have known that JonBenet had soiled her pants. She would have taken JB a bath before dressing her up if she was aware of the soiled pants.

So let's say JonBenet is asked to dress up for the party. JonBenet removes her pants, her top, and puts on her tights, black velvet pants, white gap top and black velvet vest. Where was Patsy during all this? Like I said before, she should have been in the room because she and JonBenet had a tiff over the top she would wear. Wasn't Patsy aware that JonBenet had a dirty bottom?

And what happened to her dirty bottom...as in who wiped her bottom? Did the molester wipe her dirty bottom before molesting her?

 

[BlueCrab]

According to Ramsey interviews where they looked at pictures this wasn't JonBenet's nightgown. It was a shiny/vinyl/metallic costume for an extra big barbie doll.

MlazyV,

The nightgown was JonBenet's and not for a doll. Patsy Ramsey obfuscated everytime she could during the interviews to purposely confuse and complicate. The Ramseys started lying and obfuscating on day one, even before the investigation got underway, and never stopped. You cannot believe anything the Ramseys say.

For instance, one of the meanest tricks the Ramseys pulled was sending the whole nation on a wild goose chase looking for the missing Santa Bear which had been captured in a crime scene photo on a bed in JonBenet's room but was now missing. Law enforcement's website got 10,000 hits during the search for the Santa Bear, which all the while was in possession of the Ramseys. Pam Paugh had taken the Santa Bear from the house during her one-day raid on the evidence on December 28 "to get a few personal things" for the funeral.

The Ramseys knew all about the Santa Bear because they were both in attendance when JonBenet won the stuffed bear at a pageant just several days before Christmas. But they both obfuscated and pretended they had never seen it before, cynically sending a nation of citizens, who were trying to help them, on a futile search. The Santa Bear was later found stuffed in a box at the Ramseys new house after they had moved to Atlanta.

Nothing the Ramseys have said about what occurred the night of December 25, 1996 and the following morning can be relied on to be the truth.

BlueCrab

 

[sissi]

--------------->>>Welllllllll, 'he, her or they (the FF)' most likely knew that the Barbie gown was JonBenets favorite, so HOW would a stranger know that?

I need a source for it being her favorite gown, I know I read it, but after 8.5 years I cannot remember when or where I read it. I do know that it is firmly fixed in my mind.

Anyone remember that it was JonBenets favorite nighty, AND a source?



.

In John's deposition, he referred to the nightgown as the "doll's gown", the life sized barbie doll that sat in the corner of Jonbenet's bedroom. He did not recognise this gown as one worn by Jonbenet.
What I am suggesting, is.... the perp took the gown off of the doll and wanted to put it on Jonbenet.

 

[colemanc117]

Patsy did not stress out or break down when looking at the (stained) pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor, or JonBenet's pajama shirt, or the sweater she wore to the White's party, or her fur-trimmed jacket on John Andrew's bed, or the Barbie nightgown, or any other item of clothing in the photographs, and as we know, there were many such clothes. So why would the turtleneck, which was an item JonBenet rejected, cause such an emotional reaction in Patsy? A reasonable person might speculate that it was because the turtleneck itself was involved in an extremely emotional moment between JonBenet and Patsy, which then brought emotional memories back to Patsy's life again.

Fact: when cloth is wrapped around a fist and tightened around a person's neck, V-shaped and triangular bruises result. I have pictures from MEDICOLEGAL INVESTIGATION OF DEATH to prove it. Would you like to see them?

I've been following this case from the beginning and yes, I would like to see the pictures.

 

[UKGuy]

Still no answer for the "top" JonBenet wore Christmas day.

I too read that there was urine stain just outside the wine cellar door. The urine stain on JonBenet's panties suggested that she was on her tummy when she urinated.

Okay, JonBenet removes the soiled pants and dresses for the party at the Whites. Since Patsy has hardly any recollection of JonBenet undressing and dressing, then she would not have known that JonBenet had soiled her pants. She would have taken JB a bath before dressing her up if she was aware of the soiled pants.

So let's say JonBenet is asked to dress up for the party. JonBenet removes her pants, her top, and puts on her tights, black velvet pants, white gap top and black velvet vest. Where was Patsy during all this? Like I said before, she should have been in the room because she and JonBenet had a tiff over the top she would wear. Wasn't Patsy aware that JonBenet had a dirty bottom?

And what happened to her dirty bottom...as in who wiped her bottom? Did the molester wipe her dirty bottom before molesting her?

Toltec,

I have never read anywhere what JonBenet was wearing that day. Although my money might be on the red turtleneck and jeans.

What if JonBenet after having an accident, changed out of the jeans and soiled underwear into the size-12's and told nobody, then went to the White's party, afterwards she would be found dead wearing them?

Another aspect to the clothing aspect is the time she is alleged to have spent in bed xmas day? If correct what did she wear in bed, did Patsy supervise her, on rising what clothes did she put back on?

I guess somebody wiped her down whether before or after is difficult to tell.


.

 

[MlazyV]

MlazyV,

The nightgown was JonBenet's and not for a doll.

BlueCrab

And how was this determined?

It doesn't seem like they challenged John Ramsey's opinion that it was too shiny and metallic to be fire retardant sleepware. Is there a photograph of the clothed Barbie you can direct me to? Or did the BPD consult some sort of national library of children's sleepware to determine it was regulation issue?

 

[BlueCrab]

Another aspect to the clothing aspect is the time she is alleged to have spent in bed xmas day? If correct what did she wear in bed, did Patsy supervise her, on rising what clothes did she put back on?

In the 2000 Atlanta interviews:

Mr. Levin: "It was brought to my attention fairly recently that a woman I believe named Jean Fortier, who are the parents of some children who were over your house on Christmas, and they said her children reported to her at Christmas day when they went over to play, they played with Burke but that JonBenet did not play because she was sick. I hadn't heard that before. Is that nonsense?"

John Ramsey: "Absolutely. I don't know who that is, but we had a whole parcel of kids there that day."

 

[UKGuy]

In the 2000 Atlanta interviews:

Mr. Levin: "It was brought to my attention fairly recently that a woman I believe named Jean Fortier, who are the parents of some children who were over your house on Christmas, and they said her children reported to her at Christmas day when they went over to play, they played with Burke but that JonBenet did not play because she was sick. I hadn't heard that before. Is that nonsense?"

John Ramsey: "Absolutely. I don't know who that is, but we had a whole parcel of kids there that day."

BlueCrab,

Thanks for that. Seems as if Mr Levin is locking JR into his statement? If it is nonsense why was the report made, surely it could be corroborated by other children?

Or is it another loose end that ends up as an urban myth?

 

[BlueCrab]

I had said the Barbie nightgown was for JonBenet, and not for a Barbie doll.

And how was this determined?

From the 1998 interviews while reviewing crime scene photos:

PATSY RAMSEY: "It is her Barbie nightgown."

TOM HANEY: "Is that hers or her Barbie doll's? When would she have worn that last, do you know?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, she didn't wear it that night because she had her -- she had the long underwear pants and her little white shirt. And the night before on Christmas Eve night she wore the pink little (inaudible) that was under her pillow."

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

TRIP DEMUTH: "It has a plastic bag over it, so there is some glare there."

BlueCrab

 

[MlazyV]

They don't appear to be reviewing the same crime scene photo. John Ramsey is clearly looking at a photo of the costume on the white blanket. Patsy appears to be looking at the gown packed as evidence in a plastic bag where there would be distortion.


Notice how she skirts the issue and doesn't even answer the question "Is that hers or her Barbie doll's?

 

[tipper]

"Is that hers or her Barbie doll's? When would she have worn that last, do you know?"

That's 2 questions. She's trying to answer the second one. If Haney needed to he should have gone back and repeated his first question.

 

[UKGuy]

I had said the Barbie nightgown was for JonBenet, and not for a Barbie doll.



From the 1998 interviews while reviewing crime scene photos:

PATSY RAMSEY: "It is her Barbie nightgown."

TOM HANEY: "Is that hers or her Barbie doll's? When would she have worn that last, do you know?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Well, she didn't wear it that night because she had her -- she had the long underwear pants and her little white shirt. And the night before on Christmas Eve night she wore the pink little (inaudible) that was under her pillow."

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

TRIP DEMUTH: "It has a plastic bag over it, so there is some glare there."

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Thanks for the quotes.


For those that still doubt. Firstly Patsy did not deny that JonBenet owned a Barbie Nightgown. She did indirectly confirm she had a Barbie Nightgown by denying that she had worn it that night. Since you cannot wear what you do not possess! Lastly she displayed a degree of memory recall that is missing in other areas of her interviews. She states not only what JonBenet wore the night of her death, but also the previous night.

Which demonstrates that the reasons Patsy offered for dressing JonBenet in the long underwear pants may not be consistent with her knowing JonBenet's pink nightdress lay under her pillow!

IMO JonBenet's Barbie Nightgown was intended to be placed on her to complete a revision in her crime-scene staging to that of a girl abducted whilst sleeping in her bed.

Why do this, probably to hide the fact that she was awake and fully/partially dressed, prior to her death!


.

 

[aussiesheila]

In John's deposition, he referred to the nightgown as the "doll's gown", the life sized barbie doll that sat in the corner of Jonbenet's bedroom. He did not recognise this gown as one worn by Jonbenet.
What I am suggesting, is.... the perp took the gown off of the doll and wanted to put it on Jonbenet.

I agree with your line of thought Sissi, a paedophile wanting to dress his little angel in a nightgown, whether it was a Barbie nightgown for a child or a Barbie nightgown for a life-sized doll. I feel sure that comes into it somehow.

 

[BlueCrab]

I agree with your line of thought Sissi, a paedophile wanting to dress his little angel in a nightgown, whether it was a Barbie nightgown for a child or a Barbie nightgown for a life-sized doll. I feel sure that comes into it somehow.

aussiesheila,

It has been firmly established in the interview between Tom Haney and Patsy Ramsey, in a foregoing post on this thread, that it was JonBenet's nightgown and not a doll's nightgown.

 

[Zman]

aussiesheila,

It has been firmly established in the interview between Tom Haney and Patsy Ramsey, in a foregoing post on this thread, that it was JonBenet's nightgown and not a doll's nightgown.

Well she could of meant it was JBR's Barbi nightgown. Her Barbi dolls' nightgown.