What evidence does the prosecution have?

[Phoenixfla]

I have found the same to be true. I can't remember a single person with whom I've discussed the subject who believes GZ was justified. I have a friend who's husband is a homicide detective and both of them feel GZ was at fault. You're right that a random poll would be much more accurate as to the feelings of the general public.

That would be true if you were going to grab 12 random people off the street and put them in the Jury room without hearing the trial!

 

[vlpate]

I don't think he ever handed out flyers. I do think he vented on the local news website about the situation. It wasn't so much about the innocent victim than it was about GZ being angry with the SPD. Which I find ironic since they were his biggest advocates when this case first hit the news.

He has a serious problem with authority and I see why he ignored the call for him to stop following Trayvon. He didn't like SPD and thought he could do a better job. If there ever was a Robert De Niro "Taxi Driver" GZ would be it!

MOO

IMO, and judging from his 3 expulsions in 5 months, TM was the one with a very recent disrespect for authority and zero tolerance rules, not to mention accountability. No one was fuzzy with the rules, no one said, "we don't need you to deface school property", or, "we don't need you to bring drugs to school", or, "we need you to show up on time". Their rules are pretty clear.

 

[who]

Only one of them has a history of violence.

That's George Zimmerman.

 

[Karmady]

Only one of them has a history of violence.

That's George Zimmerman.

(a) we have no idea whether Trayvon has a history of violence; and (b) the Judge has already told us what he thinks of George's "history of violence." I was kind of surprised that he characterized it the way he did (as opposed to just saying he'd considered it). I believe he used the words "rather mild" compared to what he's seen and wrt to the mutual orders of protection and noted that the encounter with the undercover officer is not something that is uncommon (paraphrased). Imo, he gave a big old judicial pffft to George's "history of violence." And that's really all that matters at an SYG hearing, and if it goes to a jury, they will never hear about it. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Only one of them has a history of violence.

That's George Zimmerman.

Only one of them has a history of documented violence.

 

[Reader]

Have also searched for a picture or article of GZ getting an award or commendation for this. Nothing.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-details/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

She said her son also participated in a 2010 campaign to "get justice" for an African-American homeless man who was seen in a videotape taken by an onlooker being struck by a man who later turned out to be the son of a Sanford police lieutenant.

"He went to churches. He put fliers on cars" and organized a meeting seeking help for the man, his mother testified.

He was recognized by the city for his efforts, his mother said.

CNN has not been able to confirm Zimmerman's participation in the campaign.

 

[Omachka]

Two of the three mentioned, sure, but I'm unaware of what network Mr. Dershowitz works for and that information isn't on his Wikipedia page. Could you fill me in?

Another that I can't seem to find a "network" for is Jeralyn Merritt. Sure, she's a guest commentator from time to time on: NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, CNN, CourTv and Fox News.. but she doesn't depend on a paycheck from them by being a guest, does she?

I've always been under the impression that these guest commentators are paid by the networks for their time but I don't have an "in" with all those networks so I don't know for sure. Do you? It would be interesting to know.

IMVHO this case is so full of agendas that it is very hard to accept any opinions about the case from anyone who hasn't seen the evidence. There are those who are for guns, against guns, for SYG and against, then there's the race issue... all this puts spin on all outside opinions as far as I'm concerned so I don't give any of it a lot of credence. I think I will just have to wait and see the documents when they are released and not just follow the "experts". After all, they haven't seen the evidence either. :twocents: :moo:

Please hurry up document dump!!! lease:

 

[chefmom]

(a) we have no idea whether Trayvon has a history of violence; and (b) the Judge has already told us what he thinks of George's "history of violence." I was kind of surprised that he characterized it the way he did (as opposed to just saying he'd considered it). I believe he used the words "rather mild" compared to what he's seen and wrt to the mutual orders of protection and noted that the encounter with the undercover officer is not something that is uncommon (paraphrased). Imo, he gave a big old judicial pffft to George's "history of violence." And that's really all that matters at an SYG hearing, and if it goes to a jury, they will never hear about it. jmo

I wonder if he would have looked at the "history" with the same non-chalant dismissiveness if it were TM in court for shooting GZ. :waitasec:

 

[LambChop]

IMO, and judging from his 3 expulsions in 5 months, TM was the one with a very recent disrespect for authority and zero tolerance rules, not to mention accountability. No one was fuzzy with the rules, no one said, "we don't need you to deface school property", or, "we don't need you to bring drugs to school", or, "we need you to show up on time". Their rules are pretty clear.

That is kids stuff. Things that kids do. He was just 17 and doing stuff most kids learn from while they are in school. They make mistakes and are punished for it and that is how you learn. Certainly he did not deserve to die because he was on suspension from school. Plus his rules he broke did not involve a gun.

By the time you are 28 and able to carry a gun you should know how to respect the rules you, yourself agreed to follow. The rules GZ broke involved the gun. Part of getting a permit to carry was that he had to show he was responsible. Maybe that anger management class should have been considered prior to them issuing him a license for his gun. It may not have been obvious when he got his permit but it sure is obvious now that GZ never should have had that gun. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I've always been under the impression that these guest commentators are paid by the networks for their time but I don't have an "in" with all those networks so I don't know for sure. Do you? It would be interesting to know.

IMVHO this case is so full of agendas that it is very hard to accept any opinions about the case from anyone who hasn't seen the evidence. There are those who are for guns, against guns, for SYG and against, then there's the race issue... all this puts spin on all outside opinions as far as I'm concerned so I don't give any of it a lot of credence. I think I will just have to wait and see the documents when they are released and not just follow the "experts". After all, they haven't seen the evidence either. :twocents: :moo:

Please hurry up document dump!!! lease:

I believe they get paid. Why else would the judge recluse herself because her husband was working for CNN as a talking head? If he wasn't paid for his efforts I think he would have stepped down from the CNN assignment. jmo

 

[Karmady]

I wonder if he would have looked at the "history" with the same non-chalant dismissiveness if it were TM in court for shooting GZ. :waitasec:

While I disagree with the characterization of "nonchalant dismissiveness", imo, he would undoubtedly have looked at it the same way and probably even cut him more slack because of his youth.

I don't know where people get the idea that Judge's are so corrupt and/or racially biased. Quite the contrary, imo. It may be different at the local small-town court level, especially in days gone by, but no way that is the case in this type of venue in these times. I am constantly amazed by most Judge's demeanor faced with things that are shocking even by my own extremely cynical and jaded standards. There was absolutely nothing in THIS Judge's demeanor during that hearing that would lead me to believe that he is biased in any way, shape or form. Quite to the contrary. He was just telling it like it is. In other words, I see these things all the time and these are NOT examples of "criminal behavior" I'm concerned about.

And, again, I feel compelled to point out that George is not white. So you would necessarily be suggesting the the Judge's bias would be limited to blacks and not hispanics.

 

[Phoenixfla]

That is kids stuff. Things that kids do. He was just 17 and doing stuff most kids learn from while they are in school. They make mistakes and are punished for it and that is how you learn. Certainly he did not deserve to die because he was on suspension from school. Plus his rules he broke did not involve a gun.

By the time you are 28 and able to carry a gun you should know how to respect the rules you, yourself agreed to follow. The rules GZ broke involved the gun. Part of getting a permit to carry was that he had to show he was responsible. Maybe that anger management class should have been considered prior to them issuing him a license for his gun. It may not have been obvious when he got his permit but it sure is obvious now that GZ never should have had that gun. jmo

I cant even imagine what would have happened to me if I was suspended 3 times in 5 months. I don't think my parents would have allowed me to see the light of day the remainder of the school year. I never thought my parents were that strict, but maybe they were?

I was suspended one time my entire life and that was for standing up to a bully in the 8th grade. He had picked on me daily, dumping my books, punches in the arm. I finally had it one day. He never bothered me again after that. I had him in a headlock when the gym teacher broke us up.

 

[vlpate]

CNN has not been able to confirm Zimmerman's participation in the campaign.

I'll bet they really tried too :floorlaugh:

 

[vlpate]

That is kids stuff. Things that kids do. He was just 17 and doing stuff most kids learn from while they are in school. They make mistakes and are punished for it and that is how you learn. Certainly he did not deserve to die because he was on suspension from school. Plus his rules he broke did not involve a gun.

No one said he did. The school punished TM, you are correct.

 

[BiancaS]

IMO, and judging from his 3 expulsions in 5 months, TM was the one with a very recent disrespect for authority and zero tolerance rules, not to mention accountability. No one was fuzzy with the rules, no one said, "we don't need you to deface school property", or, "we don't need you to bring drugs to school", or, "we need you to show up on time". Their rules are pretty clear.

GZ was not exactly a stellar citizen. He defaulted on credit cards, got fired from jobs, lived on unemployment, was evicted from apartments, etc. not very accountable, and a seeming disrespect for authority. and, unlike Trayvon, who just turned 17, GZ is a grown married man that should know better. MOO.

 

[Reader]

IMO, and judging from his 3 expulsions in 5 months, TM was the one with a very recent disrespect for authority and zero tolerance rules, not to mention accountability. No one was fuzzy with the rules, no one said, "we don't need you to deface school property", or, "we don't need you to bring drugs to school", or, "we need you to show up on time". Their rules are pretty clear.

Nothing that is listed indicates violence against another person.

Only one of them has a history of documented violence.

That would be GZ from what I have read. If there were any incidents of documented violence against another person by Trayvon prior to his encounter with GZ and killing, could those documents be posted? TIA

 

[Zak]

I cant even imagine what would have happened to me if I was suspended 3 times in 5 months. I don't think my parents would have allowed me to see the light of day the remainder of the school year. I never thought my parents were that strict, but maybe they were?

I was suspended one time my entire life and that was for standing up to a bully in the 8th grade. He had picked on me daily, dumping my books, punches in the arm. I finally had it one day. He never bothered me again after that. I had him in a headlock when the gym teacher broke us up.

BBM

I feel the same way and I know my dad would have grounded me forever.

One thing that I have been wondering is if Trayvon was in jeopardy of failing the school year because of all the days he was suspended? When a student is suspended, it is my understanding that those days are considered unexcused absences. (At least that is how it was when my son's were in school.) Since the days are unexcused, the school work missed can't be made up and the student would fail any missed test. On top of that, the days suspended count towards the amount of days a student may be absent in the grading period. I'm not sure what the school policy is at the school Trayvon attended, but where my son's went to school being suspended for 10days would have put a student in jeopardy of failing that grading period or possibly the school year. I know things change, but I just ask some friends with high school aged children and there still is an amount of days a student can be absent in one grading period and for the entire school year. At our local school its 7 days in a 9 week grading period. Unless there is a doctors excuse a student can be held back. Maybe someone knows the policy for suspended days and the attendance policy at Trayvon's school.

 

[chefmom]

While I disagree with the characterization of "nonchalant dismissiveness", imo, he would undoubtedly have looked at it the same way and probably even cut him more slack because of his youth.

I don't know where people get the idea that Judge's are so corrupt and/or racially biased. Quite the contrary, imo. It may be different at the local small-town court level, especially in days gone by, but no way that is the case in this type of venue in these times. I am constantly amazed by most Judge's demeanor faced with things that are shocking even by my own extremely cynical and jaded standards. There was absolutely nothing in THIS Judge's demeanor during that hearing that would lead me to believe that he is biased in any way, shape or form. Quite to the contrary. He was just telling it like it is. In other words, I see these things all the time and these are NOT examples of "criminal behavior" I'm concerned about.

And, again, I feel compelled to point out that George is not white. So you would necessarily be suggesting the the Judge's bias would be limited to blacks and not hispanics.

While it is possible that he could have looked at it the same way, it is as equally possible that he would have been harsher on TM because of his youth. As to the use of non-chalant dismissiveness, it was, IMO. The post I quoted stated that this judge had called the restraining orders mild and the encounter where he fought with an officer as not uncommon. Having been a victim of domestic violence in the past, I can attest that sometimes a restraining order is worth about as much as the paper it is written on. Also, I in no way meant to imply that Judges, across the board, were corrupt. However, each one is different, and can behave differently at times than their norm, being that they are, after all, only human. I will certainly be glad when we have a doc dump. It might clear some things up for all of us. I hope so, anyway.

 

[Karmady]

Nothing that is listed indicates violence against another person.



That would be GZ from what I have read. If there were any incidents of documented violence against another person by Trayvon prior to his encounter with GZ and killing, could those documents be posted? TIA

No, they could not. Unless Trayvon had been arrested for them, which is not a foregone conclusion when minors are involved (reference the jewelry incident) AND they were for a felony. Otherwise, his juvenile records are protected and not subject to disclosure.

 

[chefmom]

I cant even imagine what would have happened to me if I was suspended 3 times in 5 months. I don't think my parents would have allowed me to see the light of day the remainder of the school year. I never thought my parents were that strict, but maybe they were?

I was suspended one time my entire life and that was for standing up to a bully in the 8th grade. He had picked on me daily, dumping my books, punches in the arm. I finally had it one day. He never bothered me again after that. I had him in a headlock when the gym teacher broke us up.

I hear ya! When I was growing up, you were more afraid of what would happen to you when your parents found out what you did than the teachers or principal! Lol! And, if you had been my kid, being bullied like that, I would have stood behind you 100%!