What if it was a private snuff movie broadcast over the internet?

MrsMush99 said:
Love_Mama, I just heard this guy talking about the internation kiddie *advertiser censored* ring, or something of that nature. He is the author of Presumed Guilty.

Thank MrsMuch......your right, he did write that book, just couldn't think of his name but just googled it....

The book was written by Lawrence Schiller and Stephen Singular.. I don't know if the guy on TV was Schiller or Singular! I do know that Lawrence Schiller's parents were my neighbors here in La Jolla years ago. Lived right around the corner. Lawrence became a well know photographer and maybe that's why his name is on the title.

Intetesting............has anyone here read the book!

xxxxxxooo
mama
 
Originally Posted byjulianne
The interview with Patsy regarding photos being taken of JonBenet in the laundry room infers to me that they found evidence of these photos. IMO, they weren't just going off on some wild tangent with that line of questioning....there had to be a reason.
I posted a theory here... http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42243
of the possibility that the Ramsey's were allowing nudie photos or "soft" *advertiser censored* (nude suggestively posed) photos by a creepy pedophilia photographer to be sold to the black market kiddie *advertiser censored* racket. Perhaps that creepy pedo photographer was Karr who when left alone in the basement to take the photos killed her (which was totally unexpected by the Ramsey's, but they had to cover it up to keep their involvement in pimping out JBR as a star of soft kiddie *advertiser censored*).

This might explain why JBR might have gone quitely with this man and why she was probably being molested over a period of time... creepy pedo photographer guy had probably had photo sessions with JBR a number of times during which unbeknowst to the Ramsey's was molesting her. Could PR being questioned about photos of JBR being taken of her in the basement be the reason for that line of questioning? Could LE have already known about some kiddie *advertiser censored* racket going on in their jurisdiction and had gotten info from some other investigation about that which made them believe the Ramsey's were involving JBR in that?
 
Floh said:
Since he appears to be a seasoned traveller, i would doubt him drinking tap water. anyone travelling to such countries is quite aware of this.

however, intestinal parasites can get into the system in other ways - do you know it's best to avoid salad or anything uncooked (except for peeled fruit)?
He's a seeasoned traveler who is also a US fugitive who still uses his real name and real passport when he travels, so I don't give him props in the smarts department. I know its smart not to eat salads and undercooked meats in most 3rd world countries. And you would probably be wise to avoid bathing in local streams as well, if you're within 50 miles of a human settlement or livestock.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had AIDS, or something similar, as its rampant over there, but there are a lot of other reasons for someone to look that thin (and he seems to never have been terribly hefty, judging from his high school annual photo).
 
I think your theory about snuf movies is an excellent one, how he could have been "with JonBenet" when she died.
Also some of the other points made in this thread, that the parents may have been allowing photographers to snap her which got into *advertiser censored* circles, and she was being molested, etc. There was another great idea that I forget at the moment, probably will come to me soon as I close this. Oh yeah, about the other footprint in the mold maybe being a photographer's.
 
Kalypso2012 said:
This is a grisley theory, but it would explain a lot. Karr was there, yet he was also at home. "A small foreign faction" -- forget the "foreign," it could be a ring of pedophiles who conspired for two to film the rape and murder of JonBenet. There were two unidentified foot prints in the wine cellar room. One rapes and kills while the other runs the video camera, to give the members a feeling as though they were participating. This would also explain Karr's initimate knowledge of the condition of the bruised body.

You know those pedophiles most probably haunt the child beauty pageants undercover. They probably felt taunted and outraged and envious of the parents of pretty singing and dancing JonBenet. If Karr is privy to a "home movie," it was probably broadcast on a web private channel on the internet for a small, elite, silent, and highly paying pedophile club. Karr does not look capable of squashing a bug, let alone being brutal enough to do the real killing the way it was done. But he does look he is capable of being a stool pigeon. This pedophile ring would have had a possessive attitude toward JonBenet, as though they owned her.

The media would totally freak on something like this, which might explain the great secrecy. If prosecutors have gotten wind that a film exists, they would have to make sure that film is totally secure from the media, and so that is why no one has brought this subject up or come even close to it.

There's my theory. I hope I didn't repeat someone else's theory unknowingly. If so, I apologize; I've been away from the forum for awhile.
IMO your theory is very plausible because it provides a motive that is more reality-based. It would be sinister, but the murder can be easily characaterized as sinister also. The in-between stuff, including pineapple, pajamas, underwear, heart drawn on hand, etc., suggests these could have been 'props' for 'staging', as opposed to 'crime scene staging props'.
 
englishleigh said:
Ewwww, OMG. That might explain his pallor and his limpness and how they were having to help him walk, it seemed.
I never thought of that ~ AIDS was the only thing that came to mind. :(
 
Eagle1 said:
I think your theory about snuf movies is an excellent one, how he could have been "with JonBenet" when she died.
Also some of the other points made in this thread, that the parents may have been allowing photographers to snap her which got into *advertiser censored* circles, and she was being molested, etc. There was another great idea that I forget at the moment, probably will come to me soon as I close this. Oh yeah, about the other footprint in the mold maybe being a photographer's.
I also think this is strong possibility. JonBenet was not an ordinary child. She had been photographed many times for her beauty pageants, and some sick, perverted pedophile (or group of them) could easily have accessed her name, address, etc. I didn't realize though that in 1996 that this would be possible over the internet. Very interesting!
 
Ok, ok "kiddie *advertiser censored* photos" would justify to me the

Sophistication of the garrote that would also explain to me why the garrote was made on the child…for film effect…



remember the smell in the bathroom? some specualtion about maybe patsy dyed jonbenet's hair that night...what if the smell were photography chemicals and the bathroom was used as a dark room that night.

the garrote made so precise for filming..scary but reasonable thought for sure.
tri
 
Forgive me, I have yet again forgotten the name of the Police Departments PR man, that quit his job not too far into this case.

Shortly after leaving the PR job, he became employed elsewhere, and shortly after that took a 'vacation' to Amsterdam. He did not come home alive. Killed in a strange taxicab 'accident'. He getting out or in and driver took off BEFORE he was either in or out totally - knocking him down, lingered a couple days then died.

Could he have become aware of a *advertiser censored* connection and gone to Amsterdam to pursue his thoughts? OR to continue with this unsubstantiated 'sleuthy 'path' ? ? 'could' he have been dispatched serepticiously to Amsterdam to investigate?

I also find it rather ODD that Karr's 'move to CA' and *advertiser censored* involvement is so 'sorta' tied to the strange women who claimed ties to W's family and those Christmas/holiday travels to molest small children. One of her thoughts/fantasies? were that wealthy people travelled at holiday time by private plane, to divert attention from large numbers of people showing up in 'neighborhoods for this activity. Holiday time, neighbors would believe holiday parties etc.

Will time tell us whether we are right or wrong?

*advertiser censored* is certainly big business and quietly done.

This new theory by Kalypso, may have some wonderment attached on why the Ramsey plane was so NOT ready to fly at 10AM, when John wanted to get outta Dodge, hmmm.

Get out your little yellow crayon and color me nuts.

.
 
Former Boulder city spokesman Kelvin McNeill died August 18, 1998 in an Amsterdam hospital from injuries suffered in an accident with a taxi on August 7.

McNeill, 28, was a city spokesman in Boulder for seven years until he left in April 1997 to become director of communications and community outreach for the Gill Foundation, a Colorado Springs-based organization that gives grants and gifts to primarily gay and lesbian causes across the country. McNeill gained national prominence when he adroitly fielded questions about the JonBenét Ramsey case in the first few months after the murder.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer9_sideshow.html
 
Nehemiah said:
Former Boulder city spokesman Kelvin McNeill died August 18, 1998 in an Amsterdam hospital from injuries suffered in an accident with a taxi on August 7.

McNeill, 28, was a city spokesman in Boulder for seven years until he left in April 1997 to become director of communications and community outreach for the Gill Foundation, a Colorado Springs-based organization that gives grants and gifts to primarily gay and lesbian causes across the country. McNeill gained national prominence when he adroitly fielded questions about the JonBenét Ramsey case in the first few months after the murder.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer9_sideshow.html


--->>>Thank you Nehemiah, a powerhouse link of information about the case.

A side comment, Access Graphics had an office in Amsterdam when McNeill made his fateful trip.

Morning TV news report said Karr would be in CA for a few days to take care of his CA criminal shenanigans, then on to Colorado. This might just be a smokescreen to get him into Boulder more quickly and 'quietly', just guessing.

.
 
Camper said:
--->>>Please explain how you learned of the topic for your thread?

Enlighten the rest of us. Where did this filming 'technique' start?
I'm talking about a regular home movie camera, that maybe the pedophiles converted the film and put onto the internet. You could extract stills from a home movie back then. I was on the internet back in 1996 when Karr was obviously on it too doing his "test" messages. There was streaming audio with .wav files and .ram files, and internet microphones (I could talk to someone in Australia) and probably pretty slow movies...or heck, even still shots could have been shared easily by a pedophile ring on the internet back then. I still think that they were/are competitive and JK thinks he's the "winner" either because he saw a home movie of the crime, or still shots and that is where he got his information. Or he was the photographer while another, stronger pedophile raped and killed her. There are two unidentified foot prints, remember. But he is looking more and more delusional to me....maybe from those Thailand parasites.
 
panthera said:
I never thought of that ~ AIDS was the only thing that came to mind. :(
His complexion is too "pretty" for him to have AIDS, imo. Delusional schizophrenics and manic depressives often get pretty anorexic looking. I think he looks and acts delusional.
 
I've favored the theory that the murder was committed by pedophiles who watched the pageants and were obsessed with JonBenet; its just really hard to delve into this subject of pedophilia because it's so revolting and abhorhent, but we need to if we are going to understand. Here is a little from this Wikipedia page, which is excellent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophiles

There are different kinds of pedophiles:
Krafft-Ebing also authored a three-fold model of child molesters, these three types being
  • a.) pedophile,
  • b.) surrogate (that is, the child is regarded as a surrogate object for a preferred, non-available adult object), and
  • c.) sadistic.
Individually referring to v. Krafft-Ebing's three types as
  • a.) preferential/structured/fixed (i. e. pedophile) type,
  • b.) situational/opportunistic/regressed/incest (i. e. surrogate) type, and
  • c.) sadistic (no change),
Occurrence in child sex offenders
A perpetrator of child sexual abuse is, despite all medical definitions, commonly assumed to be a pedophile, and referred to as such; however, there may be other motivations for the crime[19] (such as stress, marital problems, or the unavailability of an adult partner[32]), much as adult rape can have non-sexual reasons. Thus, child sexual abuse alone may or may not be an indicator that its perpetrator is a pedophile; most perpetrators of it are in fact not primarily interested in children.[33]

Those who have committed sexual crimes against children, but do not meet the normal diagnosis criteria for pedophilia, are referred to as situational, opportunistic, or regressed offenders, whereas offenders primarily attracted toward children are called structured, preferential, or fixated pedophiles, as their orientation is fixed by the structure of their personality. It is estimated that only 2 to 10 percent of child sexual abuse perpetrators meet the regular criteria for pedophilia. (Kinsey-Report, Lautmann, Brongersma, Groth).

As noted by Abel, Mittleman, and Becker[34] (1985) and Ward et al. (1995), there are generally large characteristical distinctions between the two types of offenders. Situational offenders tend to offend at times of stress; have a later onset of offending; have fewer, often familial victims; and have a general preference for adult partners. Pedophilic offenders, however, often start offending at an early age; often have a large number of victims who are frequently extrafamilial; are more appetitively driven to offend; and have values or beliefs that strongly support an offense lifestyle.
----------------------------------------------------------------
What kind do you think JMK is? No one can convince me that he is the sadistic type! He's got to be another type. A sadistic type did this murder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a really good blog on pedophiles and the internet, and their culture:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/21/america/web.0821porn.php
 
Nehemiah said:
I originally posted this exactly one year ago. Not exactly about a film, but pictures. From a depo:

21 THOMAS HANEY: Did you take some

22 photographs of JonBenet in the basement laundry

23 room?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

25 TRIP DeMUTH: You had presents in

0186

1 the basement laundry room, right?

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

3 TRIP DeMUTH: So you wrapped

4 presents in the basement laundry room, right?

5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

6 TRIP DeMUTH: So you were down in

7 the basement laundry room pretty often?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Depending on what

9 time of year it was, yeah, uh-hum.

10 TRIP DeMUTH: And do you remember

11 photographs being -- photographs of JonBenet

12 being in there?

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Taken of her in the

14 laundry room?

15 TRIP DeMUTH: No, no. Photographs

16 of her located in the laundry room?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, in the laundry

18 room, oh. I don't know, there was a bunch of

19 stuff, I mean wrapping stuff and everything. I

20 don't remember any photographs.

21 TRIP DeMUTH: Is there any reason

22 why there would be photographs of JonBenet

23 located in the laundry room?

24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Were there --

25 I mean, did somebody find them there?

1 TRIP DeMUTH: If there were, would

2 that be out of place for you?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: It would seem to be

4 out of place. I kept wrapping materials and

5 sometimes I worked, wrapping station, Christmas

6 paper and --

7 TRIP DeMUTH: Would -- who else had

8 access to the laundry room, who else would go in

9 there? I know everybody would have access, but

10 who else would use it? Would the boys play in

11 there? Would John go down there?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean anybody

13 could, but I mean the boys could come down and

14 go in the train room, we had the train set up.

15 In the far back in through there, you know. Not

16 in the laundry, really, area.

17 TRIP DeMUTH: Did anybody besides

18 you use that laundry room?

19 PATSY RAMSEY: Sometimes Linda

20 would wash, if we were washing comforters or

21 something, because those were big heavy-duty

22 laundry machines, she'd take the things in

23 there, rugs and things, and wash them down

24 there.

25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

0188

1 THOMAS HANEY: So you don't recall

2 taking a photo of her down there?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.)

4 THOMAS HANEY: If she was doing

5 something really cutesy or something, would you

6 maybe run and get the camera, take one of her?

7 PATSY RAMSEY: Of her in the

8 laundry room?

9 THOMAS HANEY: Uh-hum.

10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
__________________
The photographs the police were questioning Patsy about were photographs of JonBenet that were found in the basement. They were not photographs of JonBenet while she was in the basement.

Haney seemed to be confused when he was asking the questions as to exactly what the photographs were of. It would appear that he thought they were the latter, but he was mistaken, probably hadn't done his homework.

De Muth was aware of the nature of the photographs were though, as can be seen from the questions he asked.
 
Kalypso2012 said:
I've favored the theory that the murder was committed by pedophiles who watched the pageants and were obsessed with JonBenet; its just really hard to delve into this subject of pedophilia because it's so revolting and abhorhent, but we need to if we are going to understand. Here is a little from this Wikipedia page, which is excellent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophiles

There are different kinds of pedophiles:
Krafft-Ebing also authored a three-fold model of child molesters, these three types being
  • a.) pedophile,
  • b.) surrogate (that is, the child is regarded as a surrogate object for a preferred, non-available adult object), and
  • c.) sadistic.
Individually referring to v. Krafft-Ebing's three types as
  • a.) preferential/structured/fixed (i. e. pedophile) type,
  • b.) situational/opportunistic/regressed/incest (i. e. surrogate) type, and
  • c.) sadistic (no change),
Occurrence in child sex offenders
A perpetrator of child sexual abuse is, despite all medical definitions, commonly assumed to be a pedophile, and referred to as such; however, there may be other motivations for the crime[19] (such as stress, marital problems, or the unavailability of an adult partner[32]), much as adult rape can have non-sexual reasons. Thus, child sexual abuse alone may or may not be an indicator that its perpetrator is a pedophile; most perpetrators of it are in fact not primarily interested in children.[33]

Those who have committed sexual crimes against children, but do not meet the normal diagnosis criteria for pedophilia, are referred to as situational, opportunistic, or regressed offenders, whereas offenders primarily attracted toward children are called structured, preferential, or fixated pedophiles, as their orientation is fixed by the structure of their personality. It is estimated that only 2 to 10 percent of child sexual abuse perpetrators meet the regular criteria for pedophilia. (Kinsey-Report, Lautmann, Brongersma, Groth).

As noted by Abel, Mittleman, and Becker[34] (1985) and Ward et al. (1995), there are generally large characteristical distinctions between the two types of offenders. Situational offenders tend to offend at times of stress; have a later onset of offending; have fewer, often familial victims; and have a general preference for adult partners. Pedophilic offenders, however, often start offending at an early age; often have a large number of victims who are frequently extrafamilial; are more appetitively driven to offend; and have values or beliefs that strongly support an offense lifestyle.
----------------------------------------------------------------
What kind do you think JMK is? No one can convince me that he is the sadistic type! He's got to be another type. A sadistic type did this murder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a really good blog on pedophiles and the internet, and their culture:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/21/america/web.0821porn.php
So where have you been all this time Kalypso2012? I have been on the site alone (apart from sissi) pushing the theory of a pedophile ring and being under constant attack from the multitude of RDIs because of it.

It seems Karr probably wasn't there, I think he learnt the details that were never made public via the pedophile grapevine from the pedophiles who were there at JonBenet's murder. I'm going for Santa (preferential/structured/fixed), CW (maybe opportunistic), CG (don't know) and GM (sadistic) as being the ones who were there.

ETA: And thanks for posting those very informative links, especially the last one. I'm sure it has opened many people's eyes.
 
Kalypso2012 said:
I'm talking about a regular home movie camera, that maybe the pedophiles converted the film and put onto the internet. You could extract stills from a home movie back then. I was on the internet back in 1996 when Karr was obviously on it too doing his "test" messages. There was streaming audio with .wav files and .ram files, and internet microphones (I could talk to someone in Australia) and probably pretty slow movies...or heck, even still shots could have been shared easily by a pedophile ring on the internet back then. I still think that they were/are competitive and JK thinks he's the "winner" either because he saw a home movie of the crime, or still shots and that is where he got his information. Or he was the photographer while another, stronger pedophile raped and killed her. There are two unidentified foot prints, remember. But he is looking more and more delusional to me....maybe from those Thailand parasites.

Not to mention that its been 10 years since the murder...and if he saw it in a film it could have been any time between then and the time he started giving out details. Besides the fact if it was filmed he may have seen it some other place besides the internet.
 
BirdieBoo said:
Not to mention that its been 10 years since the murder...and if he saw it in a film it could have been any time between then and the time he started giving out details. Besides the fact if it was filmed he may have seen it some other place besides the internet.


--->>>Good thought BirdieBoo!

.
 
aussiesheila said:
So where have you been all this time Kalypso2012? I have been on the site alone (apart from sissi) pushing the theory of a pedophile ring and being under constant attack from the multitude of RDIs because of it.

It seems Karr probably wasn't there, I think he learnt the details that were never made public via the pedophile grapevine from the pedophiles who were there at JonBenet's murder. I'm going for Santa (preferential/structured/fixed), CW (maybe opportunistic), CG (don't know) and GM (sadistic) as being the ones who were there.

ETA: And thanks for posting those very informative links, especially the last one. I'm sure it has opened many people's eyes.
HI Aussiesheila,
I keep changing my email and forgetting my password :doh: , but I've been in and around here off and on from back in the Scott Peterson days. I love to look at everything from a psychological viewpoint.

I think JMK is a regressed type offender. But about the pedophile ring theory, now I'm thinking that even the pedophiles probably don't get along with him, as he's especially weird, so now I can't really even imagine him teamed up with one other man who did the sadism. Isn't it hard to imagine him teamed up with *anybody*?

He is probably an outsider; such a pathetic wanna be that he thinks this is going to improve his social standing with other pedophiles!!!

Still, that doesn't exclude the possibility that the murder was filmed by one of two intruders.
 
I'm sorry Aussie, but I find this whole "paedophile ring" thing sooooo difficult to swallow. Perhaps a paedophile who took some pictures, but it would be waaaay too hard for a whole "ring" of people to stay silent for this long.

Even if sexually explicit pictures of JBR were taken, I can't imagine they would have actually been put on the internet. Surely they would have been found by now, since this is such a high profile case.
 

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