What Shirt Was JB Wearing When She Was Killed?

[Ames]

Come on....this was hashed and re-hashed....FACT: JonBenet wore the white Gap shirt to the Whites....she was found dead in the white Gap shirt....

Look at the forensic evidence found on JonBenet's white shirt and tell me she wasn't attacked while wearing the shirt.

And how do YOU know that the red turtleneck was not UNDER that Gap Shirt, at the White's? She could have been choked with that turtleneck collar...and then changed into the white shirt immediately afterward....thats why there is evidence on the white shirt.

 

[Ames]

http://www.forstevethomas.com/civilsuitpt3.htm



"Later JonBenét awakened after wetting the bed, as indicated by the plastic sheets, the urine stains, the pull-up diaper package hanging half-way out of a cabinet, and the balled-up turtleneck found in the bathroom. I concluded that the little girl had worn the red turtleneck to bed, as her mother originally said, and that it was stripped off when it got wet."

 

[Ames]

If only we had the pics from the White's party, at least then we would know what she had worn there..and more than likely had on when she got home...still, it wouldnt tell us what she had actually worn to bed that night.....if she went to bed.....so many if's..

I would pay money to see those pictures. They are probably in that "warehouse full of evidence" that was spoke of on "48 Hours".

 

[JMO8778]

No one I know would put their child to bed in a turtleneck. Just too tight and uncomfortable for sleeping. I would not sleep in a turtleneck.

Poster Dru here says she has,and they're warm and not uncomfortable.

 

[JMO8778]

That would be an interesting question....and it COULD BE that Thomas has seen those photos (which I am sure he has)...and that is WHY he believes that she was wearing the red turtleneck. It could be some of the evidence that is being withheld.

I agree,more than likely,I think there must be one or more things withheld.

 

[JMO8778]

And how do YOU know that the red turtleneck was not UNDER that Gap Shirt, at the White's? She could have been choked with that turtleneck collar...and then changed into the white shirt immediately afterward....thats why there is evidence on the white shirt.

that's a good thought,it was said that PR wanted JB to dress like her that evening,but JB wanted to wear the white shirt instead.nowhere does it state that she didn't just put the white one over the red one.maybe she already had the red one on ,then changed her mind.maybe that was a compromise.

 

[narlacat]

:doh: - I said I give. What else do you want from me?

Sorry, I didnt know what you meant by touche lol

(and I forget how to do that little thing above the e)

 

[philamena]

All you have to do is look at the autopsy photos to get the answer...Lord knows they're all over the net!

Not if you believe that she was murdered, washed down and redressed.

 

[Ames]

Not if you believe that she was murdered, washed down and redressed.

Which is exactly what I think. You know, I was just sitting here thinking about the position of JB arms....they are exactly in the position that they should be....IF someone had taken off her shirt! Patsy (or the "masked intruder"....) could have grabbed the bottom of the shirt and pulled up, therefore...pulling the shirt over JB's head, and then off of her arms. Some people take their shirt off one sleeve at a time, while others....like me...cross my arms at the bottom of the shirt and pull upward (stretching my arms over my head). When you take a child's clothes off, usually it is done the same way....you pull upward from the bottom of the shirt, over the head, and then the sleeves slide off of the arms...which are UP and OVER the head. Why didn't I think of this before....I believe thats why her arms were up and over her head....thats the position that she was in when her RED SHIRT was removed. I need to add...that this would also be the position that her arms would be in...when putting another shirt on her...in a reverse order....and her arms were just left in that position.

 

[UKGuy]

Which is exactly what I think. You know, I was just sitting here thinking about the position of JB arms....they are exactly in the position that they should be....IF someone had taken off her shirt! Patsy (or the "masked intruder"....) could have grabbed the bottom of the shirt and pulled up, therefore...pulling the shirt over JB's head, and then off of her arms. Some people take their shirt off one sleeve at a time, while others....like me...cross my arms at the bottom of the shirt and pull upward (stretching my arms over my head). When you take a child's clothes off, usually it is done the same way....you pull upward from the bottom of the shirt, over the head, and then the sleeves slide off of the arms...which are UP and OVER the head. Why didn't I think of this before....I believe thats why her arms were up and over her head....thats the position that she was in when her RED SHIRT was removed.

Ames,

And if she was redressed, are the order ot the above undressing operations reversed, if yes, why are her arms not down by her side?


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[Ames]

Ames,

And if she was redressed, are the order ot the above undressing operations reversed, if yes, why are her arms not down by her side?


.

Why would they need to be by her side? After removing the RED SHIRT...they would have put the WHITE SHIRT on her....using a reverse process...yes, that is true. BUT WHY would they have the need to place her arms by her side? They just left them in the position that they were when removing the shirt, and replacing it with other one. (And rigormortis was probably slowly setting in too).

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Ames,

And if she was redressed, are the order ot the above undressing operations reversed, if yes, why are her arms not down by her side?


.

Some people, myself included, speculate that JonBenet's arms were not by her sides because she was perhaps dragged by them into the WC location. I'm still not sure if her arms were laid out above her head, extended up, so to speak, or if they were up and in front of her, like she was laying on her side.

In the one autopsy pic, her arms are up and extended out in front and she's on her side...but the autopsy was done so long after she died that perhaps the rigor mortis had subsided and they were in that position because Meyer needed to move her to get good pics of her injuries.

 

[Ames]

Some people, myself included, speculate that JonBenet's arms were not by her sides because she was perhaps dragged by them into the WC location. I'm still not sure if her arms were laid out above her head, extended up, so to speak, or if they were up and in front of her, like she was laying on her side.

In the one autopsy pic, her arms are up and extended out in front and she's on her side...but the autopsy was done so long after she died that perhaps the rigor mortis had subsided and they were in that position because Meyer needed to move her to get good pics of her injuries.

I am wondering if JB had bruises or marks on her, that could have been made by dragging her?

 

[UKGuy]

Some people, myself included, speculate that JonBenet's arms were not by her sides because she was perhaps dragged by them into the WC location. I'm still not sure if her arms were laid out above her head, extended up, so to speak, or if they were up and in front of her, like she was laying on her side.

In the one autopsy pic, her arms are up and extended out in front and she's on her side...but the autopsy was done so long after she died that perhaps the rigor mortis had subsided and they were in that position because Meyer needed to move her to get good pics of her injuries.

Nuisanceposter,

Its possible, but was she not wrapped in blankets prior to being placed into the wine-cellar, she was only 6-years old, and weighed little, carrying her in seems to me to have been the obvious method.

I think someone stated they were extended in front of her body, not above her head so to speak, we will have to phone Fleet White for a first hand account on this one!

But like her Red Turtleneck, Size-12 Underwear, her extended arms are curious?

Were her arms in a defensive posture, was she shielding off blows to her head and face?

Was she entombed in some enclosure and using her hands to escape in an upward manner?


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[JMO8778]

It might be easier to put a shirt on with the arms up,b/c you would need to pull the arms into the sleeve.So upwards might be easier?
If she was dragged,was it done while she was concious?That implies rage to me..was JB possibly resisting getting her clothes changed?Maybe that's where some of the marks on her neck came from?That might likely leave other abrasions on the body as well.
I'm guessing maybe JB,for the second time that day,didn't want to wear the red shirt,but it was put on her anyway,and that started it all?She was fighting to get out of it,PR was struggling with her to leave it on?
That is assuming she was wearing it to save time the next morning(?)
In DOI,PR says a lot of times they loaded the kids onto the plane in their pj's so they could resume sleeping on the way.I'm guessing maybe it was really that she wanted to dress JB the night b/f,to save time the next morning(?)

 

[Solace]

It might be easier to put a shirt on with the arms up,b/c you would need to pull the arms into the sleeve.So upwards might be easier?
If she was dragged,was it done while she was concious?That implies rage to me..was JB possibly resisting getting her clothes changed?Maybe that's where some of the marks on her neck came from?That might likely leave other abrasions on the body as well.
I'm guessing maybe JB,for the second time that day,didn't want to wear the red shirt,but it was put on her anyway,and that started it all?She was fighting to get out of it,PR was struggling with her to leave it on?
That is assuming she was wearing it to save time the next morning(?)
In DOI,PR says a lot of times they loaded the kids onto the plane in their pj's so they could resume sleeping on the way.I'm guessing maybe it was really that she wanted to dress JB the night b/f,to save time the next morning(?)

You know what, that is a great post. I never thought of that and that sounds so plausible and a fight ensued and rage came after.

 

[JMO8778]

[/b]

You know what, that is a great post. I never thought of that and that sounds so plausible and a fight ensued and rage came after.

thx,if that's what happened,it sounds like a power and control thing to me..PR's angry that JB didn't wear the shirt she wanted her to (maybe JB even promised she would wear it later,as a compromise?),but then when it came time to put it on...she didn't want to.PR says,"you're going to wear this shirt !" , JB says 'No,I'm not !!" ...and it all starts there.
Maybe PR even took it personally somehow, too?

 

[Solace]

thx,if that's what happened,it sounds like a power and control thing to me..PR's angry that JB didn't wear the shirt she wanted her to (maybe JB even promised she would wear it later,as a compromise?),but then when it came time to put it on...she didn't want to.PR says,"you're going to wear this shirt !" , JB says 'No,I'm not !!" ...and it all starts there.
Maybe PR even took it personally somehow, too?

From where I am standing, it is the most plausible of all reasons so far.

 

[UKGuy]

From where I am standing, it is the most plausible of all reasons so far.

Solace,

Thats only if Patsy was telling the truth and there was an argument? Maybe Patsy needs a story to explain away the balled up Red Turtleneck, Patsy rarely offers information without some qualification, usually subject to memory constraints.


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[Ames]

I still think that the red turtle neck was UNDER the white gap shirt at the Whites. The white shirt was taken off of JB, either while she was asleep...(as the Ramsey's claim she was when they arrived home) or awake...(as Burke stated...she helped to carry in the presents). JB wet the bed that night...probably also getting the red shirt wet. Patsy gets pissed...and flies into a rage...(because she is tired, and still has packing to do, to go on the trip that she is not looking forward to going on in the first place). She twists the collar of the shirt and throws JB against the tub or a sink.....causing one of the head wounds (I think that she was hit later on, during the staging...on the head..too). It knocks her unconcious, Patsy panics thinking that she is dead...she yells for John's help...and the staging begins. I don't believe that she was dragged, especially down the stairs, because the bumping on the steps would have woke up Burke. I believe she was carried down to the basement...either by Patsy or John....the red shirt was taken off of her, and the white shirt was put back on her...thats why her arms were above her head. (There's an artist rendition of her with her arms up and over her head...while she was lying on her back. I don't know how accurate it is though...but, I am assuming that her arms were in that particular position when "found". )