Who do you think shot TB? Millard or Smich?

[WideAwake]

Doesn't matter to me one bit who did it. They were both there so ship them off to jail.


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[Sillybilly]

Poll threads are not general discussion threads. If you choose to explain why you voted the way you did, please just keep it reasonably brief without branching into other aspects of the case.

:wave:

 

[Georgeo]

Doesn't matter who was the shooter. Both equally guilty.

 

[ThelmaLouise]

I have leaned towards MS being the shooter. DM always handed off 'dirty work' to everyone else. Cooking, cleaning toilets, painting, mechanics. Especially if they needed money from him.Seems reasonable he would give instructions on how the whole plan was to go down. DM thinks MS did something against that plan, to cause a 'mess'. I believe DM always blames everyone else, when things don't go exactly the way he planned.

 

[Arnie M]

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I voted MS even though my gut tells me it was DM and the Gunpowder residue certainly looks as though the shot came from the drivers seat.

Very little to go on , only guesses , but it has always been clear DM is a planner and he likes to get others to do the dirty work. I think MS did it from the rear seat but he slid over behind DM so he could snake his arm around to aim at TB ... and likely missed at least one shot , thus the broken window and more bleeding wounds than expected. DM is good with equipment and most likely would not have missed.

I read all the jailhouse letters again (that's a lot of reading) .... and it is obvious when DM is fabricating a fictional defense , but there are times he complains about cleaning up Marks mess as though it is a foregone conclusion that Mark did the shooting.... it would be different if DM was trying to create fiction to deny he did the shooting and make it look like MS did it ..... but no , the thing DM is most concerned about is he was the "at home planner" (his words) and he would get life in jail .

Summary .... I think DM planned the whole thing but got MS to pull the trigger. DM's biggest fear was that the witnesses would testify he was the planner , not the shooter.

I realize I am reading between the lines of DM's letters , I realize the letters are full of bull and he is using CN to help him change witness testimony , but it is never about the shooting , only about the planning.

On the other hand if DM only had MS along to drive the Yukon home I would think MS would take the stand and plead guilty as a manipulated druggie minion and not a murderer.

Today in court we may see whether that happens or not.

 

[Typhoo1961]

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I voted MS even though my gut tells me it was DM and the Gunpowder residue certainly looks as though the shot came from the drivers seat.

Very little to go on , only guesses , but it has always been clear DM is a planner and he likes to get others to do the dirty work. I think MS did it from the rear seat but he slid over behind DM so he could snake his arm around to aim at TB ... and likely missed at least one shot , thus the broken window and more bleeding wounds than expected. DM is good with equipment and most likely would not have missed.

I read all the jailhouse letters again (that's a lot of reading) .... and it is obvious when DM is fabricating a fictional defense , but there are times he complains about cleaning up Marks mess as though it is a foregone conclusion that Mark did the shooting.... it would be different if DM was trying to create fiction to deny he did the shooting and make it look like MS did it ..... but no , the thing DM is most concerned about is he was the "at home planner" (his words) and he would get life in jail .

Summary .... I think DM planned the whole thing but got MS to pull the trigger. DM's biggest fear was that the witnesses would testify he was the planner , not the shooter.

I realize I am reading between the lines of DM's letters , I realize the letters are full of bull and he is using CN to help him change witness testimony , but it is never about the shooting , only about the planning.

On the other hand if DM only had MS along to drive the Yukon home I would think MS would take the stand and plead guilty as a manipulated druggie minion and not a murderer.

Today in court we may see whether that happens or not.

Excellent post Arnie. I've gone with my gut and I think DM did the shooting. As for the letters, all I see in those is DM trying to pin the whole thing on MS so MS can take the fall and DM can walk free. I think, after weeks of testimonies, MS has realized this now and I hope he testifies in order to put DM away for life and maybe get a little revenge against DM himself.

 

[Arnie M]

Thanks for the support Typhoo1961 .... haaaa I have stuck my neck out on this one by choosing MS and may get my head chopped off if we ever find out the truth in this case.

I have followed true crime my whole life and am fascinated by experts who can analyze tons of info just from letters or statements made by criminals ..... I am just a pretender , and most likely got it wrong , but I sure would love to see what the experts would say if they read DM's letters.

 

[Juballee]

I also think MS was the shooter. I think the hatred everyone has for DM makes people want it to be him, but I think the evidence points to MS being the idiot that pulled the trigger. I believed the best friend who said Mark showed him a YouTube video of the gun MS wanted but that FM ended up with, and I believe the gun used in the murder was the lesser one MS got and that ended up in the toolbox. I think at some point after the murder DM got the gun away from MS for his own safety and perhaps that of others, and that DM was planning to hold onto that gun as insurance, so that he cold prove it had MS's fingerprints on the Griffey and possibly the remaining bullets. I think that's why he gave the gun to a friend he could trust and not to MS, who he had also seen that day.

I think that if DM had planned on a murder that night, that he would have worn at least a hat or baggy clothes or something to disguise himself at least a little, like MS did. I believe SB did not see DM wearing a purse because he didn't have it on him and that without it, he had no place to conceal a weapon, like MS did.

I beleve MM when she said MS was violent and not always nice to her, and I believe if DM was also abusive, it would have been brought up by at least one of the girlfriends. I believe that when MS repeatedly told everyone that he had f'ed up, that he was blurting out the truth, that he did f up everything and go completely off the plan. I believe that when DM says he was cleaning up MS's mess, that he genuinely complaining, unlike the weird third person descriptions where he seems to be working on how he will spin his story. I also think that when people are telling how they will spin their story, as he was doing, that there are usually elements of truth woven in to strengthen the story.

And I believe that any dog owner would known ahead of time that a dog could be a possibly unpredictable but definitely difficult addition to a violent crime, and that if killing was DM's plan, DM never would have brought a pet along. In fact, the pre-planing was so lax I still can't imagine it being anything other than a hastily made afterthought, as if DM, the planner, were instead cleaning up Mark's mess. I think it was a mission to scope it out that went terrible wrong, and that as several witnesses have testified, that Mark is the one who f'ed up, and he knew it, and confessed it in that fashion to his close friends. So many reasons why I think it was MS, I can't fit them all in here.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes, to all of the above ^^. The more Smich talks, the more I think he was the one who f'd up. He is saying that the other witnesses either lied or were mistaken, including MM, but we should believe his version??

 

[slowsleuthy]

i don't like the question lol,
i just want them both to get 1st degree murder.
its an overly brazen and brutal crime here.

 

[andreww]

I think the biggest piece of evidence with regard to this question has been overlooked by everyone. The gun went home with Millard, not Smich. If in fact Smich had shot TB, why on earth would DM insist on taking his gun home?

 

[Typhoo1961]

I think the biggest piece of evidence with regard to this question has been overlooked by everyone. The gun went home with Millard, not Smich. If in fact Smich had shot TB, why on earth would DM insist on taking his gun home?

Actions have always spoken louder then words.

 

[Dutchman]

DM for me. Three went for a test drive two came back. Both equally guilty

 

[CanSleuth]

Can one or both be found guilty, even if the jury cannot agree on which one shot TB?

 

[Factoria]

I'm honestly so completely torn that I can't cast a vote in response to the poll... My logical, analytical mind tells me MS would be the more likely shooter, but I can't get past DM's egotism. Would he really give up the 'glory of the kill' to his wannabe gangsta minion? Regardless, I firmly believe that BOTH knew of the plan to murder, and I would find both guilty of Murder in the First Degree. I must admit, however, that some of my reasoning is based on information that the jury is not to consider in their deliberations. I certainly don't envy those individuals, who carry such a heavy weight on their shoulders. Praying for justice for the Bosma family and friends.

 

[ellie b]

I actually voted for DM on this poll, but now I am more undecided, I agree with Andrew's point above, how come DM took the gun home with him ? On the other hand he was driving, so would probably have been more practical for MS to be assigned the shooting role....he certainly seems to have had a penchant for guns. Don't think we'll ever know for sure, could make a case for it having been either one of them. They may have been taking it in turns in their collaborative murders.

 

[Dion]

I voted for DM on the poll and it will not let me change it.

Having heard Smich's testimony and thinking things over, I am now leaning more towards him being the shooter.

 

[Sillybilly]

Poll threads are not general discussion threads. If you choose to explain why you voted the way you did, please just keep it reasonably brief without branching into other aspects of the case.

:wave:

 

[Dion]

I voted for DM but now think MS could be the shooter. My theory hinges around the gun. I now believe it was Smich's gun, therefore, he was more likely to be the shooter. His friend Daly said it was MS's gun, but, he denied it, like he denies knowing where he buried it (if indeed it was buried). He just lies about everything, so I place more credence on what others have said.

He asked AM to retrieve the gun - why did he want it, if it wasn't his? He tried to sell it, and is now claiming he does not know its current whereabouts. The reason DM ended up with it, could be that MS had no place to keep it - he couldn't keep it in his bedroom at his mother's place and DM had many places where he could stash a murder weapon.

Regardless of who the actual shooter was, both are equally guilty in my eyes.

 

[swedie]

I believe DM was the shooter based on all the evidence presented during the trial. DM knew what he was doing, thinking he was intelligent enough to put MS in the backseat of TB's Dodge Ram to take the blame off of himself if they were ever caught. He figured he could shift the blame to MS and make himself appear as the innocent dupe who got caught up in a horrible situation. DM involved others in his crimes exactly for that purpose, to shift the blame. Unfortunately for him he wasn't intelligent enough to know his involvement in any crime would put him in the hot seat and make him just as guilty as his buddies. And worth noting, DM was always the mastermind, planner and involved behind the criminal activities carried out with his buddies. For whatever reason, apparently he acted alone in the murder of his father, which IMO goes a long way in proving his mind set that he is mentally deranged, with evil tendencies and had the urge to murder again and again.

Perhaps the evidence presented during LB's trial will paint a clearer picture of who murdered her. After all, for both to be charged with first degree murder, the evidence must show premeditation and planning. The Crown must have some pretty damaging evidence. Not to forget the PH has been bypassed also in her trial. IMO in both murders, they planned and acted together but DM was the actual murderer. He would want to take the credit in his own sick and evil mind but of course place the blame on someone else hoping not to be sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. First degree for murdering his own father...DM thought he could get away with the suicide excuse (and for a time it worked) because who in their right mind would murder their own father?! Fortunately for DM he was able to come up with excused for investigators as to why his father would want to commit suicide. I wonder how much of an influence MB's information/opinion had on the suicide ruling in those early days. ALL MOO.

They are both exactly where they belong thankfully. ALL MOO.