Why would the DT not use a mental defense?

[Kat]

Good point Whisperer. She isn't legally insane and there couldn't be a defense for her being so.

Rather than go dig up FL statutes I grabbed this one, good read on the insanity defense as it is used in FL.

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/comments/2005/05-1622 Second Amended Report 3-9-06.pdf

I do think she has a personality disorder but I'm not a psychiatrist so my opinion doesn't really count LOL.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I thought that today, people are no longer considered evil but are put into personality disorder categories.
That's why I was shocked that she doesn't fit into a certain catagory.

Watching those tapes today i'll say she's the most cruel person i've ever seen.

She was probably at her most insightful when she said she was a spiteful *****.
That is one of her few truthful statements. Caylee was in her way, she loathed her mother, despised her father and was determined she was going to do what she wanted.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I agree with the others that she is not insane and knows right from wrong. Where I believe they made the big big mistake was right after they said that it was an accident in the pool. If they had taken the "Can't tell my overbearing mother, so I set it up to look like a kidnapping" road instead of the "My dad hid the baby, molested me, so did my brother, LE didn't investigate, the media wouldn't leave me alone, and the meter reader stole a dead body" road. I would have totally believed, or at least believed that the state couldn't prove otherwise if they had gone with just being afraid of Cindy.

 

[GutFeeling!]

No matter what she is or isn't - I wish they would supply her with crayons and a colouring book, I don't even mind if she goes out the lines ... anything but the painful staring at the screens and whispers.

 

[olive]

If Casey is crazy, she's crazy like a fox. Casey is articulate, cunning, and intelligent which is precisely the reason that she believes that she can pull this off and not get caught. The more we hear from Casey herself, the more convinced I am that her parents believed Casey because she is a cool, confident liar. jmo

I would respectfully disagree with that. If I were her attorney, I would have ordered an iq test. Anyone with half a brain who has seen at least one television crime show would know you can not lie like that and get away with it (the whole job, Zenaida, etc. thing).

In my opinion, she is intellectually incapable of solving problems, hence the outrageous lies that were so obvious.

 

[redfish]

She certainly is facinating/frightening! But I do think that in the legal sense of insanity she wouldn't pass. She does know what she is doing. She remembers her very detailed lies and builds off them and around them. She is not confused easily.... she stays oh-so-cool under pressure. I can see how she manipulates and terroizes her family... completely aware of what she is doing. That poor innocent child was caught in the middle. My opinion from the Casey I have seen for the past years and more importantly the last few weeks is that a fit of anger caused her to jump the gun. I think the REAL PLAN included other members of the family. She is diabolical in my opinion.

 

[DaughterAlice]

Exactly! It makes it sound like KC and the "imaginary" friends share "imaginary" tea parties with "imaginary" pink bunnies, that's it's somehow CUTE. I find this tactic a little twisted, and definitely more than a little annoying...not to mention, unprofessional. But then, yesterday Baez did ask the detective if he "then asked Casey if she had ever committed suicide" (or whatever the exact quote was)....I just about horked up a lung laughing over that one!
:gavel:

BEAUTIFUL rendering, jane the dood!

JB has said some real doozies. I remember earlier (maybe even day 1?) he said something about LA that was something along the lines of: "evidence has shown that Lee Anthony is . . . . your brother."

 

[rookie]

The link to the PDF that was admitted into court is in my post (# 2) of this thread.

That is a court document. No diagnosis of any mental illness or personality disorder. IIRC she had other psych's look at her too, they came up with the same conclusion.

HTH.

Thanks for that- I missed it.
Everyone keeps referring to her as a sociopath, etc. but in reality she's just a cold, cruel human being huh?
She seems so abnormal.

 

[strach304]

I hope I am doing this right, knowing everything that's out there for the jury to see and hear, why in the world would the defense not use a mental defense? I feel this was a big big mistake that they have made. Does anyone agree?

No. Andrea Yates was insane. There was a history of mental illness, medication, etc. Casey covered up the crime. That in itself made an insanity defense out of the question. She knows right from wrong is the simplest way I can explain it in lay mans terms. Ted Bundy said he knew it was wrong but by most normal people's standards he's crazy as a loon, right? No insanity defense there. Observing Casey she isn't "right" but not legally insane.

 

[wyome]

I know of someone who was Casey's age (apprx. 21) that was arrested for a double murder and they pled "guilty by reason of insanity". Mind you, this young gentleman DID have a history of steroid abuse and mental instability....actually spent 2-3 mons. time in institution b/c of parents' insistance of same. He failed to graduate from high school, too.

His lawyer was not successful in this approach. It didn't matter what "stuff" in the past was brought up....he was "legally" found by the doctors as competent. Apparently, insanity is difficult to prove, even WITH a history. He sits on death row today.

Since Casey has NO history of mental illness documented, I'd say that was the reason they just COULDN'T go with that plea.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Honestly, I think that bringing up that she has some sort of mental illness from the "sexual abuse" was a mistake, since there is not a single doctor that I can remember hearing about that will testify to confirm it. As of now, all the talk about invisible nannies and imaginary friends is just talk, like the sexual abuse, since there is no evidence to show that it was anything more than the fact that she is a liar.

 

[Whome?]

If Casey is crazy, she's crazy like a fox. Casey is articulate, cunning, and intelligent which is precisely the reason that she believes that she can pull this off and not get caught. The more we hear from Casey herself, the more convinced I am that her parents believed Casey because she is a cool, confident liar. jmo

I agree, early on in this investigation I saw an interview with GA,in that interview (not quoted,because along time ago) he stated that he and his wife believed ICA because they did not want to believe that they could have had a child,raised that child and then had that child kill her own child,I found that statement to be very chilling and sad. IMHO they knew but did not want to know just how sick and twisted their very own flesh and blood was.:twocents:

 

[Wisteria]

The fact that she could juggle all the lies in all the different environments proves she is intelligent. She also was socially savvy in keeping all the groups of friends separate. She is a sociopath for sure. But that doesn't make her legally insane. She obviously can tell right from wrong since she hid her crimes for so long. And has done a great job of keeping her secrets.
I have a couple people in my life like this. Not fun.

 

[Kat]

Thanks for that- I missed it.
Everyone keeps referring to her as a sociopath, etc. but in reality she's just a cold, cruel human being huh?
She seems so abnormal.

She's cold yes.

She's cruel yes.

Is she a sociopath? I don't know. I do think she falls within the cluster B group, but again, qualified psychiatrists said she doesn't suffer from a personality disorder. So I have no clue what she is myself.

Just my thoughts at this moment. I try not to waste too much time understanding KC because to be honest she is really mundane. She is no different from any of the other common criminals we read about on these threads everyday (well I read here just about everyday). Even lying to cover up a murder and never confessing to that murder isn't uncommon. What is uncommon is that she has had a lot of media coverage and her lies have been broadcast over the airwaves for 3 yrs now. But bottom line IMHO she is just like the rest of them and hopefully she will get convicted and serve a sentence that will keep her behind bars for a very long time. I don't believe that she could probably be rehabilitated. She's dangerous IMHO.

 

[strach304]

I would respectfully disagree with that. If I were her attorney, I would have ordered an iq test. Anyone with half a brain who has seen at least one television crime show would know you can not lie like that and get away with it (the whole job, Zenaida, etc. thing).

In my opinion, she is intellectually incapable of solving problems, hence the outrageous lies that were so obvious.

I do recall a few people who have stated Casey was not smart. I do not know if or when her friend Annie will take the stand and testify or if that will be brought up. IMO she isn't very bright at all. Problem is her bs was just accepted for so long. Scott Peterson had a history of bs'ing friends, etc. we found out at trial and he was never called on it, they just accepted it. My experience is it's embarrassing. In Casey's case Annie said that was the reason for ending the friendship, she got tired of it. Casey didn't finish school or later pursue a GED instead lied about attending Valencia. When she needed money she stole it she didn't work.

 

[sweetmop]

Thanks for that- I missed it.
Everyone keeps referring to her as a sociopath, etc. but in reality she's just a cold, cruel human being huh?
She seems so abnormal.

I truely believe that some people are evil.
And Casey is one evil young woman. She has no soul.

 

[Whisperer]

Zenaida Gonzales is an actress that played Det. Flores (hmm, did she recall Fernandez by accident?)..on Forensic Files. Juliette Lewis is and actriess that played in Natural Born Killers (double hmmm)

 

[Turnadot]

She wasn't diagnosed with anything?
How is that possible?
Then what IS she?

Also, where did you you hear of her diagnosis or lack thereof? TIA

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048977/

Would be my guess.

 

[Kat]

I'm going to sign off but I have a question I'm pondering and wanted to see what you thought as well...

It does tie into an insanity defense question of the OP.

Does lying mean you have a personality disorder or are insane?

If not, when does lying cross the boundry into PD or insanity?

By all appearances KC's lying never really caused her much problems in the past (her other activities did) so why would she modify that behavior if it wasn't causing her problems? (Key word: her).

Is lying itself an indication of mental illness or a intellectual challange?

I'm not asking about what she lied about I'm asking about lying. KWIM? Just curious as to what other's think about lying. As KC's mother said Lying isn't a crime (to paraphrase not quote).

 

[Marple]

I hate how Baez keeps asking everyone about these "imaginary" friends and implying she's crazy somehow.

Not only that, but he also implies that YOU (family, friends) are crazy if you believed anything she said. It's like he's blaming society as a whole for little Caylee's murder instead of the one person responsible.