GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #2

[Cubby]

It wasn't the horror stuff that I wondered about being normal....... It was the lack of remorse and the lack of kindness, compassion... the things that are normal in society as far as treating others with respect.

I say this as someone who would take a bug outside if I could do so, rather than kill it inside.

It's the lack of respect for life. The ability to know they were purposely misleading someone. Nothing shaking them out of this as they counted 19 stab wounds. That they were even able to continue after inflicting the first wounds. It makes my stomach knot up thinking about it.

I've also thought about kids believing they are less responsible as juvenille's.... I think the belief of having a clean slate once they turn 18 is misleading and possibly contributes. How many kids out there they they're a minor and can get away with.... or threaten to call CPS over being disciplined. I know that happens these days.....

I don't have any problem with the horror stuff. It's just not an interest of mine. (I'm weird like that and don't have much interest in fiction).

 

[human]

I am no helicopter and agree with Aus that too much can be just as damaging.

But I know how to check and track my kids' footprints and search histories. They do not even know I am doing it half the time but I am always there, watching, even when they do not know. How else will I know see a red flag waving if I am not watching for them?

That is why we are parents. It is not a matter of trust. It is a matter of smart.

Even adults are taken in by sickos. Children do not have the tools or experience to know about lots of things in this world. We have more abiities and kmowledge.

But we learn as well. I told my kids that I was the parent and it was my job to take care of them and guide them,

 

[MyBelle]

I honestly don't think every parent needs to worry to the extent of helicoptering. I feel it's also harmful to act as if your kids don't deserve trust, or deserve to be babied well into teenage years.

But it's good sense, and being a good parent, to restrict/cut net access to kids who are mentally unstable or underdeveloped, especially if they can't be supervised.

I think it is just good sense for parents to restrict Internet access to ALL kids that age. It's no different than restricting television, video games, cell phone, pop and candy. Too much of any anything has never been a good idea but I doubt this case was triggered by too much parental supervision or helicoptering.

Kids and Teens
I will try and keep my total screen time to 2 hours a day except when doing a project for school, or when my parents give me permission.


Parents

• 
  [*]I will check what my kids are doing online and on their phones, consider using parent controls, and use them judiciously.
  [*] I will let my kids know before I check their computers or enable parent controls on their computers or gaming units.
  [*] I will take the time to be interested in what my kids are doing online and in the digital world and talk to them about that world.
  [*] I will help them make good media choices.
  [*] If my child makes a mistake, I will ask questions and learn what happened before I punish or take away technology.
  [*] I will only take away technology as a last resort for defying our family pledge when other consequences have failed to work, such as reinforcing the rules and increase off-line chores.
  

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/Media/Pages/Media-Time-Family-Pledge.aspx

 

[Ausgirl]

blue22, I think what you've said in your last post re the friendship makes a lot of sense. I do think there would have been -some- signs that the friendship was getting a bit obsessive, or their behaviour was. But yes, if they were otherwise acting completely normal, it'd be very hard to spot indeed unless via hindsight.

I noticed my own girl's friendship was growing less than healthy by a change in how much respect they had for others, and a few incidents out of character for my girl. If there'd been NO sign whatsoever, or I wasn't keeping a discreet eye on it, I fear for how that might have gone.

Cubby, it's such an interesting thing to look into, with lots of case studies both adult and child. Please do share if you come across anything of note.

 

[Ausgirl]

I think it is just good sense for parents to restrict Internet access to ALL kids that age. It's no different than restricting television, video games, cell phone, pop and candy. Too much of any anything has never been a good idea but I doubt this case was triggered by too much parental supervision or helicoptering.

Kids and Teens
I will try and keep my total screen time to 2 hours a day except when doing a project for school, or when my parents give me permission.


Parents

• 
  [*]I will check what my kids are doing online and on their phones, consider using parent controls, and use them judiciously.
  [*] I will let my kids know before I check their computers or enable parent controls on their computers or gaming units.
  [*] I will take the time to be interested in what my kids are doing online and in the digital world and talk to them about that world.
  [*] I will help them make good media choices.
  [*] If my child makes a mistake, I will ask questions and learn what happened before I punish or take away technology.
  [*] I will only take away technology as a last resort for defying our family pledge when other consequences have failed to work, such as reinforcing the rules and increase off-line chores.
  

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/Media/Pages/Media-Time-Family-Pledge.aspx

I think those guidelines are really good ones. They require respect for both parent and child. I think the most useful one is the one about talking, keeping in touch in a non-nosy, non-judgemental way has paid off really well for me.

As to the part I bolded - we don't know how much supervision was given these kids, we don't know how much internet time they had, and we don't know how much their interests online -actually- influenced them, if at all.

We all parent differently, and we all hope we're doing the right thing. I don't think that's an unfair generalisation to make here at WS. But it's also true that we just cannot know or control some things, we aren't omniscient and all-powerful. Strict parents have kids go off the rails too, so who and what do we blame for that? Sometimes, it's factors beyond the scope of even a very good parent to stop a child behaving in self-destructive ways.

eta: ^ Just trying to give the parents the benefit of a doubt, I am sure both their families are traumatised over this as well.

 

[Ausgirl]

It wasn't the horror stuff that I wondered about being normal....... It was the lack of remorse and the lack of kindness, compassion... the things that are normal in society as far as treating others with respect.

I say this as someone who would take a bug outside if I could do so, rather than kill it inside.

It's the lack of respect for life. The ability to know they were purposely misleading someone. Nothing shaking them out of this as they counted 19 stab wounds.

Oh I knew that, Cubby, I was just soapboxing a bit, not aimed at you or your comments.

And YES I agree, the level of callousness in this is --horrendous-- in anyone, let alone two little girls. I am so hoping all those forensic psychs hanging around this case get to do some studies on them, as I for sure would love to know what made them tick.

 

[tlcya]

from what I read in several of the articles on this case the two 12 year old perps lived in the same apartment complex. A sort of built in BFF situation in the making.

I am assuming that contributed to them being able to immerse themselves into this fantasy together. The proximity made it possible for them to be near constant companions if they were so inclined. I have no link or facts to back up the speculation that their proximity (living in same apartment complex) contributed but I suspect that it did as it gave them much more opportunity to spend time together, to the exclusion of other friends, which further fed their isolation and the unhealthy co-dependency where validation came only from one another or that validation was the most important type.

 

[tlcya]

I am so hoping all those forensic psychs hanging around this case get to do some studies on them, as I for sure would love to know what made them tick.

RSBM and the computer and electronic device forensics. I am very interested in evaluations of both.

 

[blue22]

from what I read in several of the articles on this case the two 12 year old perps lived in the same apartment complex. A sort of built in BFF situation in the making.

I am assuming that contributed to them being able to immerse themselves into this fantasy together. The proximity made it possible for them to be near constant companions if they were so inclined. I have no link or facts to back up the speculation that their proximity (living in same apartment complex) contributed but I suspect that it did as it gave them much more opportunity to spend time together, to the exclusion of other friends, which further fed their isolation and the unhealthy co-dependency where validation came only from one another or that validation was the most important type.

BBM. I actually think that's the real motive. There wasn't room for her anymore, they wanted her gone. We've seen it before!

A 12 year old is not going to outsmart forensic psychologists. I do think they will find she/they are mentally disturbed. I don't think they will find they were delusional and killed for slenderman.

 

[tlcya]

yes, we have seen it before - the senseless killing of Skylar Neese, for instance. A Triad of friends that only ultimately had room for two in the sick twisted minds of two of the three girls. Jealousy, feeling threatened, status, all play a huge role in teen girl dynamics unchecked. MOO Translate that situation to preteen girls and I could see it being a factor there as well.

 

[Ausgirl]

And this is why I have to wonder if some older, sociopathic so-and-so egged the girls' fantasy on in one of those many chatrooms out there for Slenderman fans.

When I speak about trolls, I'm in NO doubt that some of them are very capable of a sustained, long-term bout of messing with younger kids' heads.

Think about those sods on 4chan planning to troll the victim's family with messages from a 'Slenderman cult'. Is this something? Is there a 'troll' cult, making fun of kids who want to believe?

Think about the mind of a person capable of the words below, tweeted to one of the attacker's accounts. And imagine them in a chatroom with 12 year olds..


[modsnip]

 

[appleeye]

The quotes from the slenderman twitter account bother me greatly. Assuming this is an adult? no idea if it is. But come on, there needs to be some sort of social responsibility by an adult. Or at least there should

 

[blue22]

The quotes from the slenderman twitter account bother me greatly. Assuming this is an adult? no idea if it is. But come on, there needs to be some sort of social responsibility by an adult. Or at least there should

I think some people get online and lose all sense of decency. People get very brave, when they think there are no consequences.

 

[Zuri]

Just catching up on the threads from over the weekend. You all make salient points and bring a lot of great info.

As an aside, I was reading something on the Huffington Post and there was a cute link to things kids had written either to their parents or in school. All were Under the age of nine.

In a class assignment, One child (8) had to list, in 2 columns, things that were real and things that were not real. He listed video games titles and cartoons shows and FOX NEWS as not real and in the real column wrote BBC and ESPN.

This suggests to me that children very early on are being taught the difference between reality and fantasy. This gave a lot of credence to the argument that Slenderman was an excuse, rather than the cause. IIRC, the 2 girls did not go and seek Slenderman's mansion in the woods. They were found walking along a highway. JMV

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Slender Man's Seductive Power for Kids: It's in the Brain

By Dr. Steven C. Schlozman

The stabbing of a 12-year-old girl in Milwaukee was horrific. But in looking for an explanation for the attempted murder by two other adolescent girls, there have been attempts to vilify Internet memes such as “Slender Man” as putative causes for this kind, or any kind, of violence.

We have to remember that the boogeyman will always play a pivotal role in the normal development of children and adolescents — and neurobiology can help us understand why.

He’s present in the myth of the Golem and the French folk tale “Bluebeard.” Many of the novels of Neil Gaiman ("The Graveyard Book," "Coraline") or Stephen King’s horror tales such as "It" are aimed squarely at either 11-year-olds who feel vulnerable to the dark and terrifying supernatural, or those of us who remember what it was like to be 11. Re-read Ray Bradbury’s “The Halloween Tree.” You’ll remember the fun of a good scare.

The preadolescent’s love for the macabre is tied to a higher-order contemplation of what it means to be frightened in the first place. Those of us who enjoy scary stories and scary movies don’t just enjoy being scared. We enjoy asking ourselves why we’re scared...

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/sl...r-mans-seductive-power-kids-its-brain-n124401

 

[Nymeria]

Just catching up on the threads from over the weekend. You all make salient points and bring a lot of great info.

As an aside, I was reading something on the Huffington Post and there was a cute link to things kids had written either to their parents or in school. All were Under the age of nine.

In a class assignment, One child (8) had to list, in 2 columns, things that were real and things that were not real. He listed video games titles and cartoons shows and FOX NEWS as not real and in the real column wrote BBC and ESPN.

This suggests to me that children very early on are being taught the difference between reality and fantasy. This gave a lot of credence to the argument that Slenderman was an excuse, rather than the cause. IIRC, the 2 girls did not go and seek Slenderman's mansion in the woods. They were found walking along a highway. JMV

If this kid ever needs an adoptive mother, I am so in! :thumb:

 

[Ausgirl]

IIRC, the 2 girls did not go and seek Slenderman's mansion in the woods. They were found walking along a highway. JMV

IIRC, they planned to walk 330 miles to another set of woods where they believed the mansion to be.

Maybe they were on their way there. They sure weren't on their way home.

Then again, maybe they were just running away.

 

[appleeye]

IIRC, they planned to walk 330 miles to another set of woods where they believed the mansion to be.

Maybe they were on their way there. They sure weren't on their way home.

Then again, maybe they were just running away.

This is what I know to be true also, they were headed to the woods to be with him. One girl packed a picture of her family to remember them by.

 

[tlcya]

per the girls, slenderman's mansion is located in the Nicolet Natl Forest which is some 4 hours from Waukesha

 

[LinasK]

IIRC, they planned to walk 330 miles to another set of woods where they believed the mansion to be.

Maybe they were on their way there. They sure weren't on their way home.

Then again, maybe they were just running away.

330 miles??? What were their plans for food. shelter, money 'till they got there? And did they really think they were going to walk 330 miles????:banghead::banghead::banghead:
I haven't decided whether they were deluded or evil. Only that I'm proud of the label helicopter parent!