WI - Jason Pero, 14, shot & killed by police, Ashland County, 8 Nov 2017

[katydid23]

This young man was failed by family, school, and the officer. Therefore, I do blame the officer in this case. We can agree to disagree.

IMHO, we have a young man acting bizarrely. If the officer was not trained in de-escalation and mental illness, the officer was failed by the organization that trained him. A tragedy for this young man and a tragedy for the officer.

Mental illness is on the rise and needs to be taken into account when training and responding to situations where it becomes clear that there is behavior that appears out of the norm.

The officer was called to the scene because of a 'man with a knife.' The officer had no idea that this was a 14 yr old, or that he was troubled.

He only knows that a very large male is lunging at him with a large butcher knife, and refuses to drop the knife. The officer did urgently try deescalation by asking the teen to drop the knife. He asked him several times to drop the weapon.

It is no longer a question of mental illness issues when an officer, who is a person, not a robot, is confronted by a large strong agitated male with a butcher knife. The officer wants to go home to his family. He is going to defend himself against a deadly weapon.

The officer HAS EVERY RIGHT to defend himself against a deadly weapon. Lethal force will be met with lethal force.

It does not matter if the person lunging at him with the knife is Native American or Mentally Ill or drunk or despondent or high on spice or whatever else...at that critical moment, all that matters is that split second decision to defend oneself from being stabbed in the neck or face or thigh.

Every one of us has the right to defend ourselves from someone lunging at us with a butcher knife. Except cops, apparently. Somehow we expect them to avoid meeting lethal force with lethal force. We expect them to go hand to hand combat, to avoid injuring the person trying to stab them.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.c...e-killed-native-americans-2016-previous-year/

Snip

The number of Native Americans killed by police nearly doubled in 2016 compared to the previous year, according to reports.

Last year, an estimated 21 Native Americans were killed by law enforcement. In 2015, police killed 13 Native Americans, The Counted, a tabulation of all police killings in the U.S., revealed.

A 2014 study by The Center of Juvenile and Criminal Justice reported that, per capita, Native Americans are more likely to be killed by police than any other demographic in the U.S.

Snip


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[HoneyWest]

The officer was called to the scene because of a 'man with a knife.' The officer had no idea that this was a 14 yr old, or that he was troubled.

He only knows that a very large male is lunging at him with a large butcher knife, and refuses to drop the knife. The officer did urgently try deescalation by asking the teen to drop the knife. He asked him several times to drop the weapon.

It is no longer a question of mental illness issues when an officer, who is a person, not a robot, is confronted by a large strong agitated male with a butcher knife. The officer wants to go home to his family. He is going to defend himself against a deadly weapon.

The officer HAS EVERY RIGHT to defend himself against a deadly weapon. Lethal force will be met with lethal force.

It does not matter if the person lunging at him with the knife is Native American or Mentally Ill or drunk or despondent or high on spice or whatever else...at that critical moment, all that matters is that split second decision to defend oneself from being stabbed in the neck or face or thigh.

Every one of us has the right to defend ourselves from someone lunging at us with a butcher knife. Except cops, apparently. Somehow we expect them to avoid meeting lethal force with lethal force. We expect them to go hand to hand combat, to avoid injuring the person trying to stab them.

Go over to the Zachary Bearheels thread and defend the cops there, too.

 

[katydid23]

And the cop was only too quick to do it, too.

Why wouldn't he be quick? A 300 lb male was lunging at him with a butcher knife.

You make it sound like the officer went looking for a 14 yr old Native American boy, so he could murder him. But it was actually the other way around. The officer was also victimized. He was used by the teen, and lured there, and 'tricked' into shooting the suspect.

And now everyone is labeling him a cold blooded murderer and a heartless killer, who murdered a young Native American boy, for no reason.

No mention of the fact that the boy set up this suicide by cop himself.

 

[katydid23]

Go over to the Zachary Bearheels thread and defend the cops there, too.

So you think ALL cases should be looked at as one?

 

[HoneyWest]

So you think ALL cases should be looked at as one?

I want you to read that thread and respond to it, not ignore it. Every single one of these cases is met by you with defense of the cops, no matter what the circumstances it seems.

 

[bluesneakers]

I want you to read that thread and respond to it, not ignore it. Every single one of these cases is met by you with defense of the cops, no matter what the circumstances it seems.

This is true. The knee-jerk reaction from many is they have to believe the police officers. He lunged for my weapon, she had something shiny in her hand, I feared for my life, etc. I think it's because they find the victims scary (as in different) and are thankful they were killed, and/or because it's very important for them to convince themselves "It can't happen to me." So the reaction is predictable and always supports the conclusion: The cop killed a bad person and a cop will never kill me. Case closed.

 

[katydid23]

This is true. The knee-jerk reaction from many is they have to believe the police officers. He lunged for my weapon, she had something shiny in her hand, I feared for my life, etc. I think it's because they find the victims scary (as in different) and are thankful they were killed, and/or because it's very important for them to convince themselves "It can't happen to me." So the reaction is predictable and always supports the conclusion: The cop killed a bad person and a cop will never kill me. Case closed.

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Tawny]

He was barely a teenager and he was babyfaced at that. The defense of "being afraid" is old and played out. There are more rules of engagement in war than what a cop is expected to do. Disgusting.

 

[katydid23]

I want you to read that thread and respond to it, not ignore it. Every single one of these cases is met by you with defense of the cops, no matter what the circumstances it seems.

I do defend the officers in most cases because I have had in depth conversations with close family members, who work the streets, and I know how they describe their situations. And I know what they say about being confronted by armed suspects.

The cops that I know do not want to shoot anyone---ever. It is their greatest fear, to have to shoot and kill someone.

And yet I see people here saying cops routinely murder others without giving it a second thought. Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[katydid23]

He was barely a teenager and he was babyfaced at that. The defense of "being afraid" is old and played out. There are more rules of engagement in war than what a cop is expected to do. Disgusting.

Right. Because we all know that a babyfaced male could never harm anyone with a butcher knife.

 

[bluesneakers]

He was barely a teenager and he was babyfaced at that. The defense of "being afraid" is old and played out. There are more rules of engagement in war than what a cop is expected to do. Disgusting.

It's old and played out but it keeps working so they keep using it.

But how can a grown man armed with a gun, a trained professional, be so afraid of a boy with a knife? If it is true it's disturbing and obviously this man should NOT be a police officer.

 

[Tawny]

Right. Because we all know that a babyfaced male could never harm anyone with a butcher knife.

There are other measures an officer can take BEFORE resorting to deadly fire and you know it.

 

[bluesneakers]

Right. Because we all know that a babyfaced male could never harm anyone with a butcher knife.

Who is saying he couldn't or wouldn't? And if the boy was suicidal as they are saying he was, he was more a danger to himself. The police officer let this kid down by behaving in such a frightened, predictable way. He could have stepped up and been the hero, instead he's just another frightened man with a gun.

 

[kaen]

The officer was called to the scene because of a 'man with a knife.' The officer had no idea that this was a 14 yr old, or that he was troubled.

He only knows that a very large male is lunging at him with a large butcher knife, and refuses to drop the knife. The officer did urgently try deescalation by asking the teen to drop the knife. He asked him several times to drop the weapon.

It is no longer a question of mental illness issues when an officer, who is a person, not a robot, is confronted by a large strong agitated male with a butcher knife. The officer wants to go home to his family. He is going to defend himself against a deadly weapon.

The officer HAS EVERY RIGHT to defend himself against a deadly weapon. Lethal force will be met with lethal force.

It does not matter if the person lunging at him with the knife is Native American or Mentally Ill or drunk or despondent or high on spice or whatever else...at that critical moment, all that matters is that split second decision to defend oneself from being stabbed in the neck or face or thigh.

Every one of us has the right to defend ourselves from someone lunging at us with a butcher knife. Except cops, apparently. Somehow we expect them to avoid meeting lethal force with lethal force. We expect them to go hand to hand combat, to avoid injuring the person trying to stab them.

Officers have a responsibility to assess the situation. The boy was acting oddly and not obeying commands. It was clear he was a boy.

Again, I agree to disagree with you. I don't accept your premise, especially as it pertains to persons with mental illness. We don't need to keep hearing one point of view in an attempt to convince or cajole. I won't ever agree with you. And, it is fine for you not to agree with me. We can leave it at that.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Wow, so cops don't carry mace anymore? Or billyclubs? Or large flashlights?

Tasers do work - watch an episode of "Live PD"

Firing a gun should be the VERY LAST option, not the very first. I hope murder charges are coming.

 

[HoneyWest]

There is not a doubt in my mind that if his reservation had a tribal police force, this boy would be alive today.

 

[bears10]

We hear about them. They make the news. And there are threads here for at least three of the names you mentioned.

The poster I was responding to said “why do we never hear about cops killing white teens”.


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[bluesneakers]

There is not a doubt in my mind that if his reservation had a tribal police force, this boy would be alive today.

I agree.

 

[Spellbound]

I am neither defending police or victims, but I do have a question that has always bothered me about these cases. Why, when confronted by a possibly dangerous individual, do police respond with deadly force? Is there no way to de-escalate a situation without killing them? If it is truly a case of “my life or yours” —- can they not attempt to shoot to injure without causing death? Surely they don’t shoot wildly, so they must be making a conscious decision.

I understand these are not circumstances that may allow time to weigh the options, but deadly force should not be first, IMO