So we should allow children to die from preventable illnesses over the lack of universal health care??
GUILTY WI - Kara Neumann, 11, dies as parents rely on faith healing, Weston, 23 March 2008
- Thread starter southcitymom
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So we should allow children to die from preventable illnesses over the lack of universal health care??
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
The difference is that we have laws about stealing. We don't have a law stating that every sick person has to be taken for medical care.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
I think every person in this country should have the right to affordable (hell - free!) healthcare. I do not think that every person in this country should be legally required to seek healthcare for themselves or their family when they are sick.
scarpetta
New Member
But we do have Good Samaritan laws that punishes individuals for not rendering aid to someone in a life and death situation if they were able to do so, and didn't. These laws were designed as an incentive to do the right thing when the life of a fellow human being is at stake. Our legal system is a government entity and not God. It seems that this lifeless entity is a bit more merciful in this case.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
I have no specific knowledge about the Good Samaritan laws or their requirements, but I believe these parents felt like they were rendering their child the very best aid available.
We do where children are concerned. Failure to provide your children with basic care, including medical care is neglect. Adults, no, they can make that choice for themselves.
Let me ask you this, and I intend no disrespect at all. If the parents in this case simply chose not to get their child medical care and she died, would you still say it was their right to decide not to? I mean, if we took religion completely out of the equation and it was just lazy parents? Are they still in the right?
SeriouslySearching
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The Phelps group in Kansas believe in their faith, too. So do the radical Muslims who brought on 9-11. I can keep naming groups of people who truly believe in their religion or their God enough to allow people to die unimaginable deaths or to bring suffering upon others as a sign of their faiths.
Does this mean the terrorists should not be prosecuted because they were following their convictions of how they interpret their Koran? I am certain the majority of us do not believe this is a viable option and want them brought to justice.
The family should be charged and prosecuted for allowing this child to die a horrific death by doing nothing to help her. It is no different than anyone else sitting by and not offering aide to their child for whatever reason. A family that is so far gone in their "faith" to allow their child to suffer as they did need a lesson from their God that tells them they were foolish, cruel, and above all, totally responsible for her death. I would say time in jail would allow them to practice their religion and keep their other children alive.
My "religion" calls for punishment and remorse for these parents.
Does this mean the terrorists should not be prosecuted because they were following their convictions of how they interpret their Koran? I am certain the majority of us do not believe this is a viable option and want them brought to justice.
The family should be charged and prosecuted for allowing this child to die a horrific death by doing nothing to help her. It is no different than anyone else sitting by and not offering aide to their child for whatever reason. A family that is so far gone in their "faith" to allow their child to suffer as they did need a lesson from their God that tells them they were foolish, cruel, and above all, totally responsible for her death. I would say time in jail would allow them to practice their religion and keep their other children alive.
My "religion" calls for punishment and remorse for these parents.
twinkiesmom
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Police quote re: surviving siblings:
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
How about removing them from home for a head to toe medical examination? Another sibling may have the same juvenile diabetes at an earlier stage...
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
How about removing them from home for a head to toe medical examination? Another sibling may have the same juvenile diabetes at an earlier stage...
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
Is this true? Many people cannot afford to take their children to get basic health care. Can we charge all of them with neglect? I am not being a smart alec - I'm truly wondering?
Can we charge the parents who do not vaccinate their children with neglect or abuse? I don't think we do that. Heathcare choices and non-choices for a child are rightfully left in the hands of the child's parents.
I've never heard of a case where a parent just didn't seek healthcare for a child because they were lazy. All the cases I read like this one at hand have a religious component - a thoughtful choice was made and the choice was made on principal and belief.
I will try to answer your hypothetical, but I need more details. Why did the parents in your hypothetical not take the child for medical care - were they watching soap operas and eating bon bons for 30 days while the child writhed in agony at their feet? I'm just trying to envision a scenario that makes sense - help me out - I am not offended by the question at all.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
The might have all sorts of things, but it's not up to us to force them to figure that out.
scarpetta
New Member
The article stated that these parents operate a coffee shop in town. So are they employed there in order to earn money? Money for what? Money for all of those things that they do not trust God to provide for them?
That is what I mean by selective SCM. The Bible states that God will provide for ALL of your needs. There are verses about how you are not supposed to worry about food or clothing, and another indicating that God is even aware of birds and their hunger. This must be where these parents independently decided to draw the line in their faith. If they are allowed to randomly draw lines then what they are saying is that they are the final authority and God is not. This particular line came at the cost of their daughter's life. It was the parents who decided that and not their faith in God. They have already proven by the fact that they maintained a job that their faith is limited to their perception of convenience.
That is what I mean by selective SCM. The Bible states that God will provide for ALL of your needs. There are verses about how you are not supposed to worry about food or clothing, and another indicating that God is even aware of birds and their hunger. This must be where these parents independently decided to draw the line in their faith. If they are allowed to randomly draw lines then what they are saying is that they are the final authority and God is not. This particular line came at the cost of their daughter's life. It was the parents who decided that and not their faith in God. They have already proven by the fact that they maintained a job that their faith is limited to their perception of convenience.
IdahoMom
Former Member
SCM-
I can't remember names or places, but I do recall a fairly recent case where a Mom put her teenage daughter in a diaper when she was incredibly ill. She turned the other cheek. I don't remember if the daughter died or not.
What about all of the moms we see whose children are abused at the hands of the men in their lives...and the moms choose the men over their children? Those women routinely turn the other cheek and deny their children medical care.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
Do you really believe that praying is doing nothing? Do you really believe that praying is not offering aide? If you do - that's cool and I respect that. But I do want to point out that lots of people see prayer as a powerful action. On this site alone, we have threads devoted to people seeking prayers from their friends.
You might think prayer is complete crap, but I think you'd be in the minority. It's a matter of degree for most people. Many people believe in prayer up to a certain point but do not have the faith that prayer is all-powerful.
I find cases like this very frustrating because I feel that everybody has the right to believe and pray and practice whatever religion they are comfortable with.
I have very strong feelings on freedom of religion even when that religion's teachings are ridiculous to me.
My condolences to the family.
I have very strong feelings on freedom of religion even when that religion's teachings are ridiculous to me.
My condolences to the family.
If what they did was so right then why was she immediately taken to the hospital once the authorities found out about it,
if it is ok to allow kids to die because of your faith then the cops would have just turned around said ok you are praying for her - we will go on out way,
they did not do so, they did what was expected of them under the law and they tried to save her,
I think under the law that was also the parents legal/ethical and moral responsibility,
if it is legal to let her die the cops would have walked away and left her,
I am appalled at what they did, I wonder if they have ever had medical attention in there lives,
if it is ok to allow kids to die because of your faith then the cops would have just turned around said ok you are praying for her - we will go on out way,
they did not do so, they did what was expected of them under the law and they tried to save her,
I think under the law that was also the parents legal/ethical and moral responsibility,
if it is legal to let her die the cops would have walked away and left her,
I am appalled at what they did, I wonder if they have ever had medical attention in there lives,
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
I do recall stories where parents hide their abuse of children by not taking them to the doctor. We have clear laws about breaking children's bones or hurting them - that's considered abuse. I have no problem with parents being charged in that instance.
That is, for me but not for everyone, a very different scenario than what happened in this case.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
If I recall correctly the girl in this article went to the dr when she was 3 for a vaccine, but that's all the healthcare she had been known to have.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
This is exactly where I live too.
southcitymom
Well-Known Member
Everybody is selective or interpretive in their faith, scarpetta. None of us knows the truth. That's why freedom of religion is so important.
I do not know if in this case, God led them to do or not do certain things, but I imagine that's what happened - that's what happens with all of us when we try to follow God's will.