WI WI - Mary Ellen Kaldenberg, 17, Kenosha, 14 Feb 1967

[helpthevictims]

I have attached 5 news articles with any & all information about this crime that was put out to the public in 1967. Realizing the murderer could have possibly been a serial killer many detectives as well as myself have looked at all known serial killers or murderers on record. To date I personally have only found one similarity with any of them. I am curious what some of you might come up with, as well as any "profiles of the killer" you would like to state. I welcome any and all constructive comments, ideas and theories. Thank you all so much for taking the time and consideration in helping seek justice for Mary Ellen. Please pray for one another for guidance, insight and direction in all our quests to never forget those taken from us, and may their lives have not been in vain. Let's catch us a killer. God Bless.
P.S. Most Of the articles are tiny print & may need to be enlarged. I personally printed them and blew them up.

 

[helpthevictims]

While I would think the bumpy of a block would help not hinder DNA attaching to an object. Skin cells would be easier taken off a body,(by the roughness of the block) and even old body fluids might be there. I am also curious if they tested any of her clothing for DNA? Also, while I understand why the writer included all of the other murders in his/her newspaper article, it is painfully obvious that the male shooting victims, at the least probably are not related.
Also, it says her body was "frozen" when found? Was the hearse hidden well enough for her body to have been there that long?
Sorry, not trying to ask hurtful questions, simply attempting to pin down some facts.

Yes she was frozen. Went missing on Feb 9th and found by 3 children playing in the lot on Feb 14th. The hearse was not hidden at all. I wondered that too. Seems to me they didn't look too hard for her. Obviously they hadn't look there anyway. As a matter of fact it was located I believe near the outside of the lot near some railroad tracks. I don't think you could see in it very well. As far as DNA evidence I can't give you anything on that. For one they didn't have DNA in 1967 and it has been 44 yrs & DNA degrates itself but I can tell you I have convinced the Kenosha police department to actively work this again and they are doing so. Let's pray they could get something. Thank you, God bless.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Ok, the articles were helpful, but someone needs to make sure the police kept the evidence.....sometimes things get misplaced....I am specifically speaking of her clothes, they need rechecked for DNA the clothes from the other two girls who were unsolved need checked also, and any DNA found needs compared. The other two girls were bound, so if it was the same person, then my guess is your cousin was probably among his first victims.I am sorry if I sound cold and unfeeling, I just hate it when a killer gets by without being charged for all of his victims. I could be wrong, but from the description of the hearse, I feel she was killed there. Which means, she was either with someone she knew well enough to feel safe walking that far with, or somehow they forced her there, and I doubt someone would have been able to force her to walk that many blocks, and not get noticed, so somewhere out there...is a vehicle that was involved I think. So everyone needs to do a memory check, maybe someone saw her in a vehicle with someone they did not see as threatening, ( a serial killer cop is the lead suspect in my sisters disappearance) someone they did not think it odd for her to be in the vehicle with. (JMO) Yes, DNA degrades, but often good samples have been found on protected articles stored longer.....so no harm in them rechecking her clothing. I know it is a long shot, but often in cases like ours, cases so old, long shots pay off...my prayers are with you.

 

[helpthevictims]

Yes I am tracking with you. If you read some of the previous posts that might help you understand with better info. As you'll read prior I am working currently with police to basically start over. I feel very confident we are going to get answers. Thank you for your support, back at ya!!! God Bless.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I am sorry to sound so cold, and to place such a cold sounding post out for a family; This was in the third article, the one in the Zanesville paper.
The girl was fully clad except
for her shoes, which were near
the body in the blood-spattered
hearse. "Wavro said it appeared
the girl had been dragged to the
hearse, which had been sitting
in the lot for several months.

It does not state anything about a blood trail to the hearse, which to me indicates, she may have been dragged there, then stabbed, which explains the blood splatter inside. Perhaps she was knocked out, then dragged?

 

[helpthevictims]

Something just came to me, like a lightbulb turned on in my head!!!!
I think the murderer killed Mary Ellen in the hearse as a show of COMPASSION. In that sick mind these actions I believe show a level of thoughtfulness. I have always said placing her in a hearse seemed logical. It's how we transport bodies out of respect "a special vehicle" and the fact that he neatly placed her shoes next to her also shows he is meticulous, and in his mind being considerate. The concrete on/around her also could symbolize a twisted show of respect as "placing the rock" like we might bury a dog or cat and cover the site with rock so nothing can get at it. Perhaps also as I mentioned prior, a sign too of his shame for the crime. I would think this person could be a borderline split personality type. Probably has never been caught because they appear so normal, probably married, has a career, kids, an all around good person, a member of the pta. If this person has murdered after this, I would bet this was their first murder.
What do you guys think?:websleuther:

 

[helpthevictims]

I am sorry to sound so cold, and to place such a cold sounding post out for a family; This was in the third article, the one in the Zanesville paper.
The girl was fully clad except
for her shoes, which were near
the body in the blood-spattered
hearse. "Wavro said it appeared
the girl had been dragged to the
hearse, which had been sitting
in the lot for several months.

It does not state anything about a blood trail to the hearse, which to me indicates, she may have been dragged there, then stabbed, which explains the blood splatter inside. Perhaps she was knocked out, then dragged?

She did not have any head wounds or head trauma and I sure hope she was alert so that she fought back and maybe we'll get DNA from her nails. Also I have wondered if fighting back could be why she was not sexually assaulted. She didn't give him the chance. Certainly one theory that I am sure has been looked at since 1967.

 

[Belinda]

Just read the thread. Personally, I don't see any respect. Don't know why the hearse, but I doubt it was for some sensitive reason. I wonder if it was unlocked and the other vehicles in the lot were locked? That would seem unlikely, but you never know. However, how did they know it was unlocked? Could this person have some tie to the impound lot?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

She did not have any head wounds or head trauma and I sure hope she was alert so that she fought back and maybe we'll get DNA from her nails. Also I have wondered if fighting back could be why she was not sexually assaulted. She didn't give him the chance. Certainly one theory that I am sure has been looked at since 1967.

I also think sexual assault was the reason for the hearse, sick as that sounds, I am referring to the space, more than the vehicle. I think her shoes came off perhaps as he dragged her. And she would not really need a noticeable head injury to be knocked out. When I was about 15 one of my brothers and I were wrestling around, and he put me in a choke hold that used to be common, (known as the sleeper hold)...something like that would leave no lasting damage.Was her face covered? They say that is a sign of shame and remorse. If not my opinion is the slabs were to conceal her, I don't think she was a planned victim, it was more of a crime of chance, he happened upon her out alone...so he needed to hide her as long as possible....JMO

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Please don't misunderstand, I hope she fought like heck, and that they find DNA everywhere...my mind is just trying to make sense of the drag marks. The condition of the hearse truly makes me feel she was stabbed there. So she could have still been resisting so he half dragged half walked her there?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

According to the one article. She was found in the back laying on her back I assume, and surrounded by concrete blocks and a piece of concrete was found on her stomach. Was she found with her feet facing the rear of the hearse and her head towards the seats in front. And the bricks were they going up and around her but nothing in front of her feet.

The hearse could indicate a means of transportation.
A symbolic means of transportation, since apparently looking at the photo it was missing at least one rear wheel.
If someone is deceased the normal mode of transportation is by hearse. If she was killed inside the hearse, the hearse could have represented what was being done. Used as an symbol for death, an alter itself, with going inside would represent a type of church setting or some satanic ritual perhaps, and any deaths that could have been carried by this hearse.

The surrounding of the body with blocks and placing a piece on her stomach may indicate a temple of some kind. Like a human sacrifice. Being 1967 I would have to read a lot more to see any connection.

She was dragged to the hearse. Which tells me is how she lost her shoes, they know she was dragged because of the markings in the dirt, gravel grass whatever, and then placed inside the concrete block temple and stabbed 10 times/another article mentions stabbed 12 times instead of 10.

I believe there may had been two killers involved and not one. I t may had been preplanned and they were looking for a victim nearby. For some reason they chose this person. Perhaps because she was on foot and alone and for other reasons.

Any connection to the other two. I don't know. We have not seen enough to determine if they may be related other than cause of death being knife wounds. The dagger part I found interesting as being a possible murder weapon.

If her shoes were the kind you tie on and not slip on. He took them off of her so she could not run away or run very fast and he carried them to the hearse. She may had already been rendered unconscious, before being dragged to the hearse. If the dragging tracks were more in a straight line, and nothing zig zag to indicate she was thrusting her legs around while being dragged. I would say she was already rendered unconscious.

 

[helpthevictims]

Just read the thread. Personally, I don't see any respect. Don't know why the hearse, but I doubt it was for some sensitive reason. I wonder if it was unlocked and the other vehicles in the lot were locked? That would seem unlikely, but you never know. However, how did they know it was unlocked? Could this person have some tie to the impound lot?

Is what I mean by respect is of a "sick logic" it's where we transport the dead. I don't feel any murderer has a normal type respect like you and I, but in a murderers mind they might think "well I put her in a hearse" ya know.
The lot was an impound lot for abandoned vehicles. It had been taken there in the recent past and was going up on auction in a few weeks. It was a small town, everyone knew everybody and all the town news. So all the locals knew about an old 1948 White Packard Hearse in the lot. It had "Frankies Place" on the side of it and had actually been used to haul around a baseball team in the past. It probably stuck out like a sore thumb. It had tires missing. Kids played in the lot, people would walk thru it as their was a school and park nearby and so on.

The whole issue of the Hearse certainly has always baffled everyone. I think the sad sick truth is that the murderer(s) chose to kill her in it out of a sick sense or their own morbid thinking. "sick logic"

 

[bessie]

Helpthevictims, do you know if Mary Ellen's murder and the murders in Pewaukee were ever considered to be related to the unsolved University of Wisconsin/Madison, WI murders, sometimes called the Capital City Murders?

WI - Serial Killer From 1968 Until ? - Page 8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Some of the young female victims were also brutally stabbed in the chest area. I haven't seen anything that matches the hearse or the concrete blocks, but then I haven't researched the cases in depth yet, either.

 

[Robin Hood]

Hepthevictims, do you know if Mary Ellen's murder and the murders in Pewaukee were ever considered to be related to the unsolved University of Wisconsin/Madison, WI murders, sometimes called the Capital City Murders?

WI - Serial Killer From 1968 Until ? - Page 8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Some of the young female victims were also brutally stabbed in the chest area. I haven't seen anything that matches the hearse or the concrete blocks, but then I haven't researched the cases in depth yet, either.

The only other cinder block or concrete block reference I can find is Portia Bufford aged 8, June '63 http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...gAkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=en4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=7312,2175763

More about Portia here, mentions her body being found under a parked rubbish truck
http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...N0jAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wCcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7419,2926536

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

quick question for any one whom may know.
Feb 9th 1967 being a Thursday,(New-Moon) does not look as if weather was bad that day. So transportation in the area where she was heading from home would not had been a problem due to snow. Since she was going to be back home quick for her date.

Can anyone tell me if the boyfriend she was going out with showed up to the house to pick her up at the schedule time he was suppose to??​

 

[OldSteve]

Upper body stabbing reminds me of what I recently saw on an ID show about the Connecticut Valley serial killer. He did nothing sexual, just stabbing - profilers felt stabbing for him is actually something sexual, so in that sense he is committing a sexual attack.
orm of sexual attack. This killer took his victims shoes (have to double check that), correct me if I'm wrong (anyone?).
He stabbed multiple times, upper body. I do not believe this SK is actually related to Mary murder, just his profile.
How many times was Mary stabbed (sorry to ask)?
Wonder if anything of her's was found missing since SK usually take trophies.

ETA - here's a link to the show I was mentioning:
http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/dark-minds/episodes/episode-guide.html

 

[Bargle]

Upper body stabbing reminds me of what I recently saw on an ID show about the Connecticut Valley serial killer. He did nothing sexual, just stabbing - profilers felt stabbing for him is actually something sexual, so in that sense he is committing a sexual attack.
orm of sexual attack. This killer took his victims shoes (have to double check that), correct me if I'm wrong (anyone?).
He stabbed multiple times, upper body. I do not believe this SK is actually related to Mary murder, just his profile.
How many times was Mary stabbed (sorry to ask)?
Wonder if anything of her's was found missing since SK usually take trophies.

ETA - here's a link to the show I was mentioning:
http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/dark-minds/episodes/episode-guide.html

According to the book, "Getting Away With Murder" by Baymann and O'Brien, she was stabbed 12 times in the chest, neck and forehead. She was wearing all her clothing when stabbed.

 

[Winward1]

Sorry to hear about your cousin. My cousin was murdered many years ago in a long cold case. That must have been horrific for those school children who found her.

 

[Bargle]

According to the book, "Getting Away With Murder" by Baymann and O'Brien, she was stabbed 12 times in the chest, neck and forehead. She was wearing all her clothing when stabbed.

That should be Baumann & O'Brien.

 

[helpthevictims]

quick question for any one whom may know.
Feb 9th 1967 being a Thursday,(New-Moon) does not look as if weather was bad that day. So transportation in the area where she was heading from home would not had been a problem due to snow. Since she was going to be back home quick for her date.

Can anyone tell me if the boyfriend she was going out with showed up to the house to pick her up at the schedule time he was suppose to??​

Yes, her boyfriend was at the house waiting for her to return. He definetly had nothing to do with her murder. I have to say that your earlier post was very intuitive for reasons I can't say yet. However so you know there is nothing ritualistic about the crime or motive. Thank you for your interest.