WV - Sodder Family - 5 children, Christmas eve 1945 - #2

[Granddaughter]

Hi all. didn't want you to think we'd forgotten about you. Mom has rounded up a bunch of articles and photos, including photos of two of Papa's brothers in Italy, and photos of my grandparents when they were about the age that the missing children would be today. My brother is creating a webpage so I can post this information for you to access.

The photo reported to be Louis appeared to be a snapshot. Mom recalls seeing a casement window in the background of the original that Mama and Papa received. She and Dad looked for buildings with casement windows when they went to Kentucky, and that's why she recalls this detail.

Sorry I haven't been able to post much. I've been covered up at work. I'll try to post more as soon as possible.

 

[Shadow205]

Granddaughter,

That is great news about the website! Keep us posted.

Hi all. didn't want you to think we'd forgotten about you. Mom has rounded up a bunch of articles and photos, including photos of two of Papa's brothers in Italy, and photos of my grandparents when they were about the age that the missing children would be today. My brother is creating a webpage so I can post this information for you to access.

The photo reported to be Louis appeared to be a snapshot. Mom recalls seeing a casement window in the background of the original that Mama and Papa received. She and Dad looked for buildings with casement windows when they went to Kentucky, and that's why she recalls this detail.

Sorry I haven't been able to post much. I've been covered up at work. I'll try to post more as soon as possible.

 

[shadowangel]

The website is great news. If you need any help with anything, just let us know.

How aggravating is it...Mothman got a movie with Richard Gere, and we're having trouble getting the kids a mention in the newspaper.

 

[InquisitiveT]

Thank you for the welcomes. I have been searching for an answer to Fox1950's question about how long postal codes have been in use in Italy. I have found information that they joined the United Postal Union (UPU) in 1875 and have a few email inquiries to two websites to see if I can get an answer. Meanwhile, of interest, I found the following:

In mysterview's quote below, there is a link (.sicilia.indettaglio.it). I looked up the zip code 90135 and a place called "A." is at the very top of the list. http://sicilia.indettaglio.it/eng/cap/palermo/motore/motore_sql.html?Nome=*&Tipo=%25&Cap=90135.

Inquisitive T, thanks so much for the info. And welcome to WS!

Shadowangel, when I did a regular google of zip code+ 90135, I also came up with hits in Palermo and also one in Big City, Calif. ( http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/documents/th200.pdf address is on pg. 5 of the pdf) Whoops, scratch that, it is a sample form, and probably a bogus address.
Interestingly enough 90132 also shows up as a zip code in Palermo. I didn't find anything for 90132 in the US.
Here is the link to research Italian zip codes
http://sicilia.indettaglio.it/eng/cap/palermo/motore/motore.html

I also did a check on both numbers at the USPS and no hits on either number. I only saw that in the Google search.

Not sure what "Name" represents. Wondering if this is a street name? Under "Kind", "Cortile" is listed, and this translates to courtyard. I think it reinforces the idea that the wording behind the picture could represent a location, in this case, a street in Palermo. I've done other research on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palermo#History) on Palermo, and directly quoting:

The importance of Palermo got another boost when Sicily became (1947) an autonomous region with extended self-rule. But any improvement was thwarted by the rising power of the Mafia, which still today is a dramatic feature of the city, as well as the whole Southern Italy.
​

I do not mean any disrespect to the Sodder family bringing up the mafia reference, but it lends to the theory some have visited on this website about mafia involvement. Just following a train of thought here.

 

[shadowangel]

I was playing around with the message from the back of the Louis photo. Granddaughter had posted that her Mom recalled the one line as being "age 32 or 35" instead of A90132 or 35.

The "A" is self-evident...And, in some European countries, "9" is written with a "tail" and would resemble a lower-case "g". I had a harder time getting "01" to resemble an "e", but without seeing the original writing, who can say? What I would give to see the back of that photo...

Jennie-Does your Mom know if a copy was ever made of the writing? Also, does she know what may have become of the device she found in the yard?

 

[spikydragon]

Now I'm confused ... does the writing say "32 or 35" verbatim, or does it say either "32" or "35"?

(Delurking. Hi. )

 

[shadowangel]

You're not confused...I've been working it from both angles.

 

[drema]

Perhaps lili or ilil are partical names for something. Like for example: Funicello-someone could shorten it to cello. Or Capriani could be shortened to iani boys or riani boys. Maybe this was a group of "boys" and their title was shortened to "Ilil" boys or lili rather than writing out the whole name. Sounds Itilian especially since the one ends with an I.

 

[shadowangel]

FYI, I e-mailed the Human Trafficking division of INTERPOL, to see what they suggest we might do as far as researching any possible activity in Italy. They were quite responsive when I asked some questions in relation to Sharon Marshall, more responsive than several of the PDs I've tried dealing with here in the States.

 

[fox1950]

Thank you InquistiveT. Your posts have been very informative and helped me search the Italian sites. Keep Going! :clap: Perhaps the children are still not able to reveal what happened to them. I wonder if down thru the years there has been many hang up calls expecially during Mr. & Mrs. Sodder's lifetime. Jennie, does you family still have the magazine that your grandparents thought they saw a picture of Betty in? Can't wait to see your website. Also does Sylvia remember if they appeared to be only one "handwriting" on the picture or did there appear to be more than one person's writing?

Also InquistiveT- It appears Lili is an Italian last name.

 

[fox1950]

Re: Family History


Author: adelaide Date: 23 Aug 2003 12:45 PM GMT
Surnames: Dessena Adelaide Ignazia Lalla
Classification: Query

Our grand father Salvatore Soddu had a brother, is name was Giorgio, he goes in USA west virginia in beginning 1900, he was 16 years old.He changed his surname in Sodder, we have a photo of George family (1960),he had five soons,and his wife's name was Maria Cipriani. We live in Italy, Sardegna in a little village Tula in Sassari's provincia. We are Ignazia,Adelaide e Lalla Dessena our mother is Anna Maria Soddu.Sorry for our english. Is the person that you are looking for? bye bye


​

I searched a combination of names for "Dessena Adelaide Ignazia Lalla", and no hits. Then, I searched for Anna Maria Soddu in Tula. This is where I got a hit http://it.paginebianche.yahoo.net/execute.cgi?btt=1&tl=2&tr=101&tc=&be=&cb=10&tq=2&qs=Soddu&qsn=Anna+Maria&dv=Tula&ind=&nc=&x=0&y=0..[/QUOTE]




One hit for the name Dessena in Tula
Dessena Giovanna
07010 Tula (SS) - Via S. Elena, 15

• 079 718152

 

[Shadow205]

Granddaughter,

Do you know if your family here in the US has any contact with the family members in Italy? Have they kept in touch over the years? Does Sylvia know this woman who claims to be Salvatore Soddu's Granddaughter? Did George & Jennie have contact with them after coming to the US?

 

[LButler]

Hi All!! Glad to see the new info here!! Exciting!! I've been away too long - we're closing our antique store after 4 years and, gosh, it's a lot more work to GO OUT OF BUSINESS than to be in business. But, enough about me!!

I see a reference to the post of "Adelaide" in the rootsweb forum. I sent her an e-mail several months back (per that address she listed there) and although it didn't bounce back, I never heard back from her?

I have to go back and catch up on the last posts of the first thread so maybe someone else has been contacted too. But, I have heard back from my detective mag guy and he has located the magazine that had the story in it. Should be arriving to me in a few days. I'll share what I can when I get it (provided I'm not way behind here on what's been posted).

Once our store gets officially signed and sealed, I'll have some free time to run around and do some research so post some ideas for me if you have any. I want to go to the libraries and read up on what kind of things were just generally going on in Fayetteville about the time this happened...

Gosh, I've missed this....

 

[drema]

A Smithers woman claimed that the kids had been brought to her home after the fire and then someone with Florida license plates came and took them away.
I don't know if this is the same woman that the authorities claim to have talked to and decided that she was not credible or not.


Welcome back-L Butler! To answer this post (above) that was on the other page questioning whether the woman in Smithers and the motel owner in Charleston who said she saw the children that night-I think these are two different people. One was at Smithers and one was in Charleston. Does anyone know the Smithers woman's name and if she was Italian? The Lady from Charleston said she saw the children with Italian men that night and called a year later and said she saw Louis with a man in Charleston again. The lady in Smithers said they were brought to her house after the fire and then someone with Florida license plates came and took them away. The motel operator's name in Charleston was Ida Crutchfield.

 

[JBandy]

I am waiting on my thesis to be accepted, but in the mean time I am moving back to Fayetteville from Boston to spend a month with my family and to research and talk about this with people effective February 3. If anyone is interested in meeting me and helping me look for answers please let me know.

Jonathan

 

[Yaya]

Shadow205 you had posted in the other thread:

Shadowangel & I are trying to drum up some interest within the anthropology departments at 2 Universities here in WV. I think it could be quite a class project.

Any update?

 

[Shadow205]

Nothing yet Yaya. I think that we need to establish how the current property owners would feel about their property being excavated before we go any further with that idea. I noticed in the above post that Jonathan is coming to Fayetteville, maybe that would be the time to approach them.

Shadow205 you had posted in the other thread:


Any update?

 

[drema]

Here are some hightlights from Inside Detective, February, 1968 that I just found:

The title is "The Children who went up in Smoke" -

• According to the article it all began a few months before Christmas 1945. A stranger appeared in the fall of 1945 to discuss some hauling work. While there, he made a point of examining the wiring of the house. He stated there was going to be a fire pointing to two fuse boxes. Mr. Sodder had not ask him to inspect the fuse boxes.
• A few days before Christmas the family noticed another thing which seem unimportant at the time. A man parked in an automobile was seen watching the Sodder children when they came home from school. The unknown man was seen several times parked along the highway.
• There was no Christmas tree that year because the family was sad Joe had not made it home for Christmas. (So, a Christmas tree did not start the blaze).
• When the telephone rang at 12:30 a.m. Mrs. Sodder saw Marian alseep on the couch in the living room. Lights were on through the house, shades were up and the door was open as though no one had taken time to close up the house before going to bed. The caller was a woman. Mrs. Sodder heard weird laughter of another person in the background. The person asked for a man who was not, nor had any reason to be at the Sodder residence.
• Mrs. Sodder locked the doors, pulled the shades and turned off all but one light which was was normally kept on during the night. She did not wake Marian who had fallen a sleep while reading a magazine.
• 30 minutes after the phone call she heard a thud on the roof. About to doze off again she smelled smoke around 1:30 a.m.
• The three girls sleep in the first bedroom immediately at the top of the stairs. There was no door at the top of the steps into the girls room which means that could have easily have heard Mrs. Sodder's calls.
• The boy's room was in the back blocked by a door to the girl's room.
• The engine would not turn over in the truck in the garage nearby.
• The house was seven rooms. Five rooms were downstairs, 2 were upstairs where the children slept.
• December 28- Three men and a woman came to the Sodders to see the babies as if to learn if the parent suspected anything. (Article does not state if the Sodders knew these people).
• Later, Mrs. Sodder begin to burn pork chops bones, etc. in her stove. After the fire died the bones were still there.
• Three months after the fire, baby Sylvia found a device which could contain explosive or jellied gasoline. It was later identifed as an Army pineapple. The end of the object was slightly burned.
• No one interviewed who was present at the fire smelled burning flesh or heard screams.
• A man riding a bus past the scene around 1 a.m. stated he remembered seeing what appeared to be balls of fire hurtling toward the roof of the house.
• Another woman said thought she saw some of the children peering from a passing automobile while the fire was in progress.
• The ladder was found 75 feet down a embankment from the Sodder home.
• A woman operating a tourist court on the highway between Fayetteville and Charleston, around 50 miles west of the fire said she saw the children the morning of the fire. She served them breakfast. In the parking lot was a car with Florida plates. She remembered this after a picture of the children were put in the Charleston paper after the family became suspicious. She knew nothing of the fire that morning. She found out about it when she read the article and related the pictures to the children she saw the next morning.
• Another woman saw the article and said she saw four of the five children at a hotel a week or so after the fire accompanied by two women and two men, Italians. They registered around midnight. She tried to talk to the children but the men appeared hostile and refused to let her talk to the children. The younger boy answered a friendly comment she made and one of the girls began to talk to her. The man started talking in Italian and everyone stopped talking. They all stayed in one room of the motel and left early the next day. She, too, had never heard of the fire. The same woman said 8 months later (August 1946, a man with a boy stayed at the Alderson Hotel (same hotel) and the young man called the boy his "ward". He never let him out of his sight. The woman never connected the case until she saw pictures of the Sodder children. She did not remember seeing the older boy (Maurice). She recognized Louis after having seen him at the same hotel 8 months earlier. The lady said they stayed approximately 3 days.
• The lady who said she made the call the night of the fire retracted her statement later.

More later if you are interested.

 

[Shadow205]

Very interesting Drema. Please post more.

 

[drema]

There is a couple of things from yesterday's post that I would like to change or verify:

• The lady who said she made the call did not retract her statement, she changed her story.
• The young man seen with the boy in August 1946, that the woman thought was the same boy as she had seen a week after the fire, was an Italian. (Brother Frankie)?
• Something new from the post of yesterday: The picture Mr. and Mrs. Sodder found and Mr. Sodder went to New York to investigate was one of two beginners in a ballet class at the West Side center of the New York Children's Aid Society. He was informed there could be no question about the child's parantage and therefore it could not possibly be the child he sought. How did they know? This was Betty according to Jennie-Grandaughter.

I have a busy ahead-will post more when I can this afternoon. L Butler-did you get your copy of the magazine you said you ordered. Is it the same one? Feel free to chime in or add your comments if you have received your book.