You, the jury

[BBB167893]

Guys, I've gotta admit finding this tedious.

You're not the only one! I'm as willing as the next to move on.

Indeed, I asked you something earlier. You said (and forgive me if I don't get it exactly right) that you wish RDI would stop discussing certain matters so we could get something done in this case. I asked what subjects those were, just so I'll know.

 

[BBB167893]

On the other they are credited with street smarts, criminal behavior, legal savvy of seasoned, hardened ex-cons.

No. NO. Absolutely not. That was the whole point of me starting that "clever or lucky" thread: for the specific purpose of putting that IDI claim to rest.

They refuse to do as you suggest, but would be so helpful. Put yourself in her shoes. Go, right now, and find your six old year tied up, head broken in, dead, cold, blue. See how you handle the worldwide media barrage and the cops' unrelenting pursuit of you as their primary suspect. No one will.

Not to YOUR satisfaction, certainly.

They'll blow this off and without hesitation continue on their merry way blasting her as if she was a Nazi war criminal.

WHOA! Remember: YOU said that.

 

[Zak]

MF, once again you have surpassed expectations. You point out with distinction what I have been trying to say. On the one hand they were amateurs, just well to do snobs seeking social status. On the other they are credited with street smarts, criminal behavior, legal savvy of seasoned, hardened ex-cons. They can't win. If they had been able to recall and articulate just what happened in each situation asked about, they would be tarred and feathered for being too calm. If they had cried, you know who would say they were crocodile tears. If they misspeak, they are killers. If J has a quirky look on his face, he's the devil. They are not allowed to win, period.

They refuse to do as you suggest, but would be so helpful. Put yourself in her shoes. Go, right now, and find your six old year tied up, head broken in, dead, cold, blue. See how you handle the worldwide media barrage and the cops' unrelenting pursuit of you as their primary suspect. No one will. They'll blow this off and without hesitation continue on their merry way blasting her as if she was a Nazi war criminal.
See TWELVE ANGRY MEN.

I have never been in her shoes but I can say with 100% honesty that if this happened to me I would have left my home and went straight to the police station. I would have wanted to find the killer of my baby daughter. I'd have answered all the LE questions and taken a lie detector test that night. I would want to know the truth about what happened. Of course, I would only have done all of this if I was innocent. I wouldn't need to lawyer up because I would have nothing, I repeat, nothing to hide. I wouldn't have told the LE to put off questioning us, we just lost our daughter, give us a few days. I would have been angry and want to find the killer. As far as I am concerned any media barrage and unrelently pursuit as a suspect by LE was well deserved. One thing that I know for a fact is that when you lose a loved one you want to talk about them, in fact that's all that you can talk about, your loved one and what happened to them. Talking to the police would or should not be a difficult task, especially when you are on a mission. As a parent when anything happens to your child, no matter how trivial, you are on a mission to get to the bottom of what happened. There would not have been a media barrage had the R's co-operated with LE at the beginning.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Zak--are you sure?

When JR brought Joni's lifeless, cold, bluish body to the top of the stairs and laid her down, Linda Arndt immediately made a mental count to be sure of the exact number of bullets she had in her gun.

 

[WHITEFANG]

"Patsy's in total denial. She's rationalized this in her mind and can visualize an intruder."

Chapter and verse

 

[BBB167893]

Chapter and verse

You got it, man. ST, PB, page 271:

Detective Harmer added, "Patsy is in total denial. She's rationalized this in her mind and can probably even visualize an intruder."

 

[WHITEFANG]

"Patsy's in total denial. She's rationalized this in her mind and can visualize an intruder."

Chapter and verse

Remember, you are arguing with someone who will not acknowledge "love" as a viable component in this debacle. It is a non-factor. Fang

That's not it. I acknolwedge it quite extensively. SD

... to play on our emotions are part of a tried-and-true strategy that the Rs & CO have been using since Day One. "Oh, we're such loving parents. How could you think we could do this?"

SUPERDAVE

So, would it be fair to say that your response was absolutely untrue?

No, it would not. Not in the least. I've never once doubted that PR loved JB the very best she could.

What's that?

"No, it would not. Not in the least. I've never once doubted that PR loved JB the very best she could."

I didn't ask you about PR loving Joni the best she could. I spent alot of time telling you what I meant and your response is ridiculous.

It is kind of interesting. You continue to do precisely what I say you will do. Did you ever spend any time behind bars yourself? Were you a juvenile delinquent?

 

[WHITEFANG]

You got it, man. ST, PB, page 271:

Detective Harmer added, "Patsy is in total denial. She's rationalized this in her mind and can probably even visualize an intruder."

You quote Thomas? Steve Thomas? XReference this if you can.

Your attempts to play on our emotions are part of a tried-and-true strategy that the Rs & CO have been using since Day One. "Oh, we're such loving parents. How could you think we could do this?"
​

SUPERDAVE

 

[WHITEFANG]

Zak

I would have been angry and want to find the killer. As far as I am concerned any media barrage and unrelently pursuit as a suspect by LE was well deserved. One thing that I know for a fact is that when you lose a loved one you want to talk about them, in fact that's all that you can talk about, your loved one and what happened to them. Talking to the police would or should not be a difficult task, especially when you are on a mission. As a parent when anything happens to your child, no matter how trivial, you are on a mission to get to the bottom of what happened. There would not have been a media barrage had the R's co-operated with LE at the beginning.

That means that suddenly, practically within a split second, these parents did not love their child anymore? "As a parent when anything happens to your child, no matter how trivial, you are on a mission to get to the bottom...." They were her parents, so that didn't change. There is no proof that I'm aware of at least, that they ever stopped loving her. The piece that upsets you is how they didn't talk to the cops. But, they did. They spoke to them continuously from the morning she was missing until the 28th.
But, just let me add something personal. I believe I understand how you feel. I felt like that all my life. That is, to trust the cops and to cooperate fully, and then some, with authority figures like law enforcement officers. I vow to you that I would never be so trusting again. I ran into a system that was filthy. I could not believe it. I was shocked. A judicial canon demands that those people entrusted with running our judicial system must avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interest. "Even the appearance..." A warning to our nation follows this canon. Those who create distrust among the citizens of our nation by violating that principle will destroy our country. I'm afraid these kinds of violations are occurring with increasing frequency all across this nation.
Major television news programs have run a story about judges in Pennsylvania who confessed to sending kids to prison in exchange for cash kickbacks. Imagine.

"And there's a slow, slow train comin, comin round the bend." Robert Zimmerman

 

[Zak]

Zak--are you sure?

When JR brought Joni's lifeless, cold, bluish body to the top of the stairs and laid her down, Linda Arndt immediately made a mental count to be sure of the exact number of bullets she had in her gun.

At that moment JR did not know that Arndt was making a mental count of the bullets in her gun. They had no reason to believe that they were being suspected in this murder. Afterall, the LE never even took them down to the station for questioning. Therefore, the R's would have no reason at that point to lawyer up. I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that I remembered that the R's had lawyered up that night or at the very least the next morning. I also know that the R's were questioned by LE in the days that followed, maybe a full hour or two total. Nothing like the questioning they would have had at LE had they not lawyered up and refused to be questioned until months later under their terms.

 

[WHITEFANG]

At that moment JR did not know that Arndt was making a mental count of the bullets in her gun. They had no reason to believe that they were being suspected in this murder. Afterall, the LE never even took them down to the station for questioning. Therefore, the R's would have no reason at that point to lawyer up. I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that I remembered that the R's had lawyered up that night or at the very least the next morning. I also know that the R's were questioned by LE in the days that followed, maybe a full hour or two total. Nothing like the questioning they would have had at LE had they not lawyered up and refused to be questioned until months later under their terms.

Friends who were present convinced them to secure counsel. They couldn't think straight for days. I believe they sensed immediately the cops suspected them. And they did talk to them. And they gave them carte-blanche rights without warrants to search their houses, cars and office. To talk to Burke and they gave them writing samples, blood, hairs.

If I had done this, and I could recover enough strength and sanity to do anything other than sob and weep uncontrollably for days, weeks, months, I would not want anything to do with the media, lawsuits or making statements. I would do everything I could to hide and stay as far away as I could.

 

[Zak]

Friends who were present convinced them to secure counsel. They couldn't think straight for days. I believe they sensed immediately the cops suspected them. And they did talk to them. And they gave them carte-blanche rights without warrants to search their houses, cars and office. To talk to Burke and they gave them writing samples, blood, hairs.

If I had done this, and I could recover enough strength and sanity to do anything other than sob and weep uncontrollably for days, weeks, months, I would not want anything to do with the media, lawsuits or making statements. I would do everything I could to hide and stay as far away as I could.

Yes, as luck would have it, their good friend Mike Bynum (an attorney) happened to drop by on the morning of the 27th with food in hand. From that point he took charge and they had legal counsel. They were asked to go to the police station and Bynum refused because the R's were in no condition. As luck would have it once again, they had their good friend Dr. Beuf, who just happened to be JBR's pediatrician, there to offer his medical opinion to Bynum who refused the police request.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the police had search warrants to search all those places and for the blood, hair and hand writing samples. The R's said that they didn't know that LE had talked to BR and that it was w/o parental authorization.

In taking a look at DOI again, it seems to me that JR was thinking clearly enough to hire attorneys and to go make funeral arrangements. PR was also thinking clearly enough to look at dresses that had been delivered from a store for her to choose from for the funeral. In all of her grief and haze, she was able to remember that she wanted to wear a veil like Jackie Kennedy.

 

[DeeDee249]

It is not true that the Rs did not know about LE questioning BR. They sent him to the White's early on the morning of the 26th, hours before JB was found, certainly before anyone could talk to him. He was not questioned without parental knowledge and I don't believe he was ever questioned when he was alone.
When he was questioned by the Grand Jury, I believe he testified by videotape, and didn't stand before the GJ in person. Anyone else have info on this?

 

[BBB167893]

What's that?

What's what?

I didn't ask you about PR loving Joni the best she could. I spent alot of time telling you what I meant and your response is ridiculous.

This whole conversation is ridiculous.

It is kind of interesting. You continue to do precisely what I say you will do.

I aim to please.

Did you ever spend any time behind bars yourself? Were you a juvenile delinquent?

I'm proud to say no on both counts. I'm sorry to say, though, that I can be violent if provoked.

You quote Thomas? Steve Thomas?

Yeah, even I'm a bit surprised.

XReference this if you can.

I'm not aware of any other mention if it.

And I appreciate you quoting me like that. I'm sure most people who read it know what I mean.

 

[MurriFlower]

You're not the only one! I'm as willing as the next to move on.

Indeed, I asked you something earlier. You said (and forgive me if I don't get it exactly right) that you wish RDI would stop discussing certain matters so we could get something done in this case. I asked what subjects those were, just so I'll know.

Subjects are not the issue. The problem is that RDI does not only not accept other ideas they also do not accept the idea that other people may have other ideas.

There is only one way, one light (or darkness in this case), and that is their way. All roads only lead to RDI and should anyone dare to question this, we will lead them off into temptation (temptation to become sidelined, that is) by introducing every trick we know to stop them focussing on the one true path. That path we despise is the path of Anti-RDI. If that is 'IDI' well that is the label we must adopt. So whenever we see an argument that is contrary to our beliefs we must attack with all our might, including sending in the 'silent soldiers' we hold in reserve for this purpose - those faceless pawns who throw themselves remorselessly on the enemy and then disappear!

 

[DeeDee249]

Subjects are not the issue. The problem is that RDI does not only not accept other ideas they also do not accept the idea that other people may have other ideas.

There is only one way, one light (or darkness in this case), and that is their way. All roads only lead to RDI and should anyone dare to question this, we will lead them off into temptation (temptation to become sidelined, that is) by introducing every trick we know to stop them focussing on the one true path. That path we despise is the path of Anti-RDI. If that is 'IDI' well that is the label we must adopt. So whenever we see an argument that is contrary to our beliefs we must attack with all our might, including sending in the 'silent soldiers' we hold in reserve for this purpose - those faceless pawns who throw themselves remorselessly on the enemy and then disappear!

Sorry- I just don't see that kind of animosity here on the part of RDI. Of course we disagree- you can't have productive discourse without it. At least I haven't seen any name-calling on the part of RDI. Even if the board was all RDI, there would be disagreements about which R. To me, there is much more impatience with RDI than by RDI. I try not to get impatient with anyone because I don't really care what anyone else thinks; it doesn't influence me that much.
I saw WF getting a bit aggravated, but I didn't notice anything particularly offensive, so I wasn't sure what prompted the "time out". I get "time outs" regularly from eBay for what they describe as "rowdy behavior"on the discussion boards. (those doll collector ladies need some rabble-rousing once in a while) but I do try to be more restrained here and save my most annoying behavior for my husband, who deserves it. In Real LIfe, I am a virtuoso of annoyance.

 

[gitana1]

Gosh, there's a huge amount of anger on this thread. I can see reasons why either position could be valid. Why so much anger? It won't solve the case or bring little Jon Benet back.

 

[BBB167893]

Subjects are not the issue.

Then why bring it up?

The problem is that RDI does not only not accept other ideas they also do not accept the idea that other people may have other ideas.

I don't see that at all. Especially as far as I go, because I used to be one of you. Nobody was jumping for joy when I showed up, either.

There is only one way, one light (or darkness in this case), and that is their way. All roads only lead to RDI and should anyone dare to question this, we will lead them off into temptation (temptation to become sidelined, that is) by introducing every trick we know to stop them focussing on the one true path.

Wow, I've never been compared to Satan before!

That path we despise is the path of Anti-RDI. If that is 'IDI' well that is the label we must adopt. So whenever we see an argument that is contrary to our beliefs we must attack with all our might, including sending in the 'silent soldiers' we hold in reserve for this purpose - those faceless pawns who throw themselves remorselessly on the enemy and then disappear!

I've never been compared to Yassir Arafat, either.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Then why bring it up?



I don't see that at all. Especially as far as I go, because I used to be one of you. Nobody was jumping for joy when I showed up, either.



Wow, I've never been compared to Satan before!



I've never been compared to Yassir Arafat, either.

I was jumping up and down when ya got here:Jumpie:

 

[BBB167893]

I was jumping up and down when ya got here:Jumpie:

Thanks, Linda. My point is that if people around here seem hostile, it's probably for reasons other than one's position on the case.