Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

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Has anyone looked at the detail of the scars Cali has according to namus? I am sure i had never seen that much detail on there before. I wonder what they are all from? She seems such a contradiction with her clothing, frosted hair & those scars. Maybe a bit of a tomboy playing with cars? On the nose, i have a similar nose with brown eyes & scottish/english/irish ancestry. In fact, her profile is similar to my sisters when she was younger. The scars have me intrigued now.
 
Wanting2Help said:
Thank you Roselvr for posting that. The thread is so long it is hard to find anything. Unfortunately I don't have the ability to save the pics/screenshots so I need to go searching every time I need something...

I also hate that NamUs hid everything. Any idea why they did that?
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Yeah they hid everything to make it impossible for people like us.
See the post NamUs system changes as of September 16, 2013

Houston Mom said:
Consider Dorothy Clitheroe: Missing at the age of 14 in 1973 from AZ. The NCMEC reconstruction made me think of Dorothy. BTW earlier in the threat it was mentioned that Cali Doe had been referred to at Dorothy Doe. I wonder why?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/3855/204?current_page=photos
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Dorothy Clitheroe Date last seen September 20, 1973 age 14. She wore heavy eye glasses
1979 would make her 20. Not sure she survived on the road 6 years; but the area fits with where they think Cali grew up.

"Dorothy Doe" came from Can you identify me. Dorothy Doe: Do you have the key to my identity?

Still_Seek_Answers said:
I agree.....there are many different ways the pollen could have been transferred to inside her pockets. She could have shaken hands with someone, then placed her hand into her pocket......Or she could have brushed her hand against something, then slide them into her pockets. There are way to many possibilities for how the pollen got inside of her pockets, to use it as a set marker for where she was from. Plus three grains is hardly a substantial amount. I would think that is they were her clothes, they would have been covered with pollen from the area she came from. JMO. We do not even know that the pants were hers. They actually look kind of big on her.....so it is hard to tell.

I think that whoever the man was that was with her at the diner....he is someone she was quite comfortable with....I get the impression she was probably with him for a long time. So he was either her bf......or relative. I do not think her murder was planned. I think something happened very quickly to make him fly into a rage and shoot her at that close of a range. The fact that they have never found the murder weapon only tells me that the gun was not used in another crime. People were much more relaxed about guns back then. He could have sold it to someone, or he could have tossed it into a river someplace.
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I still feel your 1st instinct that he was the serial killer is correct.

Still_Seek_Answers said:
We sent another email to the Detective on Cali's case. She has no callouses nor other physical markers to indicate she was a migrant worker. Her grooming habits indicate that she was not out on the road. Her legs and underarms were shaven, her toenails were not excessively long....none of the traits we generally see in people living on the road are present. I also see no indicators that she was Amish. Her teeth alone would make me think she is not. Amish people tend to stay with their own orders, but the children most generally have adequate dental care. I spent several years living in a Amish area, and I never saw anybody whose teeth were neglected.

The detective did tell me something I found to be very interesting. He stated:

We had NCMEC prepare a photo of Cali using the latest technology. It is strikingly different from the one we have been using over the last 30 plus years. I can send you the photo that NCMEC believes is what she would look like alive. There are many more changes that the body undergoes in death than just the closing of the eyes.
We are certain she is not from this area. When tips have come in we have followed up with year books etc of local schools, but we are a very small community. The entire population of our county is about 70,000. Probably less back then. That coupled with the pollen testing, isotope testing, tan lines etc lead us to the fact that she was from outside our area.

His statement leads me to believe he thinks the photo on the NCMEC website is a better pic to use as a reference than her PM photo. I feel Jamie Grissam is much to old. Cali's bone characteristics show her to be under 18, and they actually feel she is under 16. If they had based her age estimate on her appearance I would question it more. Bone formations however are generally pretty accurate.
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I'm not sure I agree with it; but the nose is more along the lines of what I feel is accurate.


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DrDMike said:
She most likely did not come from money since she had bad teeth.
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I've been meaning to address this for a while and keep forgetting. I had kind of forgotten it myself until it came up at a family gathering a couple of weeks ago.

Bad teeth were pretty common in the 60's and 70's, and economics had very little to do with it. Preventive dentistry was only getting started. Relatively few kids had fluoride treatment or any early dental contact at all, not everybody brushed, and nobody flossed. Adults didn't go in twice a year for cleaning. When you went to the dentist, you were considered to have healthy teeth if you had "only" one or two cavities. If you drank a lot of soda or ate candy or chewed gum, you likely had a lot of bad teeth by the time you reached puberty.

And that cut across economic and social lines. Solidly middle class people whose workplace health plans included dental insurance probably had the best teeth, but even they often went years between dental visits. I'm not saying everybody was like this, but it was common enough that I no longer think Cali's teeth indicate anything either way about her family life or economic background.
 
dizzigirl1 said:
Has anyone looked at the detail of the scars Cali has according to namus? I am sure i had never seen that much detail on there before. I wonder what they are all from? She seems such a contradiction with her clothing, frosted hair & those scars. Maybe a bit of a tomboy playing with cars? On the nose, i have a similar nose with brown eyes & scottish/english/irish ancestry. In fact, her profile is similar to my sisters when she was younger. The scars have me intrigued now.
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Wow, they have added all kinds of information that we never had before. Everybody, go look at her Namus entry now, even if you've looked in the past: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/6583
 
Anyone familiar with the type a negative blood type and it's ancestory?
 
velocitygirl said:
i can't find anywhere, how tall she was?

Based on the new photo above and knowing that they can be a fair bit off at times i just wondered about http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bailey_andria.html

she may well of been mentioned already...isn't ruled out on nameus
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Pretty sure Andria Bailey was ruled out back when we could see DNA profile. I'll see what I can find. I do not have her in my rule out notes. Cali's blood type is rare too; possible she was ruled out on blood type
Andria Height (inches) 65.0 Weight (pounds) 110.0

Cali - Weight (pounds) 120, Measured Height (inches) 63, Measured
 
Houston Mom said:
I don't see Deloris Stanton on the thread. She was 5'2" and weighed 110 lbs. She went missing from Gainsville, Fl on April 13, 1976. She was a native of Beaver Falls, Pa and a known hitchhiker.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7783/0/

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stanton_delores.html
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Looks like Gainsville had an raceway which was operational in 1976 as they are about to celebrate their 45th year.

http://www.autoplusraceway.com/apcm...p?articleid=56677&zoneid=68&navsource=tickets
 
The most recent recon is not totally without resemblance to Karen Reinert. She's a little on the young side though, but maybe she matured quickly, some girls do, and that hormonal maturing tends to make the bone structure etc complete its maturing. Has she ever been actively ruled out?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1488dfpa.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/reinert_karen.html

This is one heck of a creepy thing to think... but if it was Karen Reinert, could she have been killed because the new school year had started or was about to start and it was going to get too hard making excuses for why she wan't back in school? Or maybe she was being taken care of by someone who had to return to teach school or do some other school-based job. That would explain why she was so at ease with the man she was with, she'd been with him since late June and probably thought she was on holiday and would be going home to her mother. The truck drivers who thought they saw her could be mistaken, after all, the earlier recons looked quite different.
 
reasypeasy said:
The most recent recon is not totally without resemblance to Karen Reinert. She's a little on the young side though, but maybe she matured quickly, some girls do, and that hormonal maturing tends to make the bone structure etc complete its maturing. Has she ever been actively ruled out?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1488dfpa.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/reinert_karen.html

This is one heck of a creepy thing to think... but if it was Karen Reinert, could she have been killed because the new school year had started or was about to start and it was going to get too hard making excuses for why she wan't back in school? Or maybe she was being taken care of by someone who had to return to teach school or do some other school-based job. That would explain why she was so at ease with the man she was with, she'd been with him since late June and probably thought she was on holiday and would be going home to her mother. The truck drivers who thought they saw her could be mistaken, after all, the earlier recons looked quite different.
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Cali's wisdom teeth make me say no way she was 11
 
This is probably nothing more than a reflection of the popularity of native-style jewelry in the 70's, but Mendocino Jane Doe who is about the same age, found in July 1979, is wearing an earring that is the same shape as the little birds in Cali's necklace.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10447
 
Hi. I've had to backtrack and go through 1200+ posts, but I finally am up to speed regarding this case. Wondering about a few things.

1: The location of her murder and the complete absence of leads raises the question of whether she belonged to a group not typically represented in these databases. There have been some mention of Native American origin or belonging to a migrant family (which I feel is unlikely based on the reasons given before) or that she was Canadian. Has there been any cross-referencing to Canadian databases? Any inquest at all to authorities about missing children from up there?

2: Was the waitress account of her meal at the Lima Diner from earlier in the night she was murdered or a whole day before that? If LE believes her last meal was at the Lima Diner, around 9 miles from where her body was found, then the suspect sketch and wood-paneling station wagon become much more important based on the shorter time-frame.

If the Lima Diner tip was a whole 24+ hours prior to her death, it plausible to think that a girl who is a bit of a drifter and familiar with hitching could have met and gotten a meal with one person and within an entire day met someone new and gotten a ride.

That being said, what models of station wagon, let's say within the previous ten years of her murder were able to be bought with wood paneling? Once these makes/models are known, aren't there DMV records within the state that are accessible to link owners to these vehicles?

3: The nature of the murder, being shot in the face, dragged just off road and shot again, while being stood over, doesn't typically align with many serial killer MO's. There were no evidence of a struggle, no indication of sexual assault. It seems rather hasty and poorly thought out. The murder has a personal feel to it. Why make her empty her pockets? She doesn't seem like a typical mark for a robbery. All signs point to the fact that she wasn't wealthy, didn't own anything of real value. I can't help but feel whoever killed this girl made her empty her pockets to not rid her of an identity or steal, but rather ensure she didn't possess something that would tie him/her to the scene. Why do that, unless the murderer and Cali Doe spent time together/were in public together.

4: The evidence of Australian pine found on her seems more and more like a red herring. I read somewhere in this thread that the pollen was found in both her jacket and her trouser pockets. Is this true? If that's the case, then she must have been traveling with the jacket (and not lent it at some point in NY before her murder) for some time. I am also unsure of the ease of cross contamination between articles of clothing. Any experts on that?

5: I know her jacket, ill-fitting and awkward on her, was a promo giveaway at racing events. What year were these jackets manufactured (it was a one time thing)? Knowing the year would determine how likely it was that Cali Doe got the jacket from a thrift shop/borrowed it or actually received the jacket at a racing event prior to her death. Also, if LE had the manufacturer of these jackets, how is it possible that there was no trace of where they were shipped/what company they were shipped to/how they were disseminated. That's just not how businesses are run. Has to be a paper trail somewhere.

Alright, that's all I got at the moment. Thanks for fielding my questions everyone.
 
FTRocha said:


3: The nature of the murder, being shot in the face, dragged just off road and shot again, while being stood over, doesn't typically align with many serial killer MO's. There were no evidence of a struggle, no indication of sexual assault. It seems rather hasty and poorly thought out. The murder has a personal feel to it. Why make her empty her pockets? She doesn't seem like a typical mark for a robbery. All signs point to the fact that she wasn't wealthy, didn't own anything of real value. I can't help but feel whoever killed this girl made her empty her pockets to not rid her of an identity or steal, but rather ensure she didn't possess something that would tie him/her to the scene. Why do that, unless the murderer and Cali Doe spent time together/were in public together.

4: The evidence of Australian pine found on her seems more and more like a red herring. I read somewhere in this thread that the pollen was found in both her jacket and her trouser pockets. Is this true? If that's the case, then she must have been traveling with the jacket (and not lent it at some point in NY before her murder) for some time. I am also unsure of the ease of cross contamination between articles of clothing.

5: I know her jacket, ill-fitting and awkward on her, was a promo giveaway at racing events. What year were these jackets manufactured (it was a one time thing)? Knowing the year would determine how likely it was that Cali Doe got the jacket from a thrift shop/borrowed it or actually received the jacket at a racing event prior to her death. Also, if LE had the manufacturer of these jackets, how is it possible that there was no trace of where they were shipped/what company they were shipped to/how they were disseminated. That's just not how businesses are run. Has to be a paper trail somewhere.

Alright, that's all I got at the moment. Thanks for fielding my questions everyone.
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3. I think the killer was a family member hence the absence of a missing person report. I do not think it was a planned out murder...maybe a crime of passion. Maybe Cali stole money from her killer and was caught when she emptied her pockets. I doubt she carried identification. I think the killer was trying to retrieve something of his that Cali had.

4. I believe the pollen evidence collaborated with dental isotopes.

5. Police most likely did not have the resources to compile all registrations of station wagons from all 50 states.
 
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