Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[Carol70]

I believe that was the same tank Reeva was wearing when she arrived at the home earlier - meaning she slept in the top she had been wearing all day, I guess...

It could also be possible that she showered at home before going to OP as she did arrived at his place past 6. I know in jhb that it gets dark at roughly between 6.30- 7pm. So she actually may have arrived wearing clean clothing and had no need to change into pjs etc...Many woman sleep in vests and shorts and not necessarily pjs. Just throwing this out there.

 

[aa9511]

And at the BH, Det Botha asid there were no other injuries other than the bullet wounds.

Is everyone lyng or inept or what?

Welcome to the real world...

Were we early cricket bat strike to Reeva people right after all?

Have both sides been lying aplenty?

As I have said this one runs deep.

And it is outrageous that they have denied freedom of the press. And maybe we know why now--per my above.

IMO U.S. Has most freedom of press, yet still there r many court proceedings held "in secret" like many closed hearings in Jodi arias trial, which I mentioned earlier. So it is not much surprise to me that judge in SA did this.

 

[Interested Bystander]

On Monday, however, Roux said call records showed Pistorius called security first,
but could not speak because he was "indeed crying".

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-court-reeva-steenkamp-injuries

Does anyone know if Roux has produced these call records? They're crucial because if OP did in fact call security first, then it shows he tried to get help before being forced to do it. Roux has claimed he can prove many things, but I've yet to see him do it. Surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to pretend he has call records that show Baba is mistaken about the call sequence? Would he?

Yes he had a list made by Nel's team. My feeling is that this is a "balls up" by the police.

 

[FrancesB]

I had not heard this - so, OP bedroom and bathroom were locked? What? Did RS run upstairs and locked both doors to get away from him? Or what is this implying. I don't get it...

Wouldn't the autopsy comment about any sperm detection?

From Pistorius affidavit:

I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.

From Pistorius affidavit:

That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door.



The thing is, a locked bedroom door posed no problem for Pistorius, he clearly got out of the bedroom after he shot Reeva. His claim that he reached the key to the toilet door through that broken panel, I find that a bit difficult to believe. Maybe the toilet door wasn't even locked?

 

[soozieqtips]

Are there any gun enthusiasts here who know what the odds are on hitting a target so precisely through a locked door multiple times? I just assumed he'd have been firing wildly, given how he was so overcome with fear and terror, but the shots all appear to have been extremely precise. Is that kind of accuracy likely under the circumstances? Given that he couldn't possibly have known exactly where this 'intruder' was in the toilet?

 

[curiousjo]

This article may be right about the psyche of OP that fatal night:

"Oscar did feel vulnerable, despite his long list of awe-inspiring athletic accomplishments, not just because of his physical congenital disability, but, because of psychological childhood traumas.

Oscar was traumatized at age six by his parents’ divorce, his subsequent estrangement from his father, and at age 15, his mother’s death. She’d been a cheerleader for him, encouraging him not to let his disability define him. Her passing would have been experienced as a profound abandonment to a teen boy who was so dependent upon her love.

In Oscar’s adult life, reports of a darker side surfaced, including a hair-trigger temper, drinking, and a reckless boating accident. There are even reports of the police coming out on domestic altercations between Oscar and Reeva before the shooting. So, there was already trouble in paradise, precisely because Oscar did feel vulnerable. He’d fallen in love with the angelic Reeva – a law school graduate, beautiful model and soon to be TV reality star. Unconsciously, he was terrified she would abandon him, just like the first love of his life - his mother – had done."

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2014/02/hollywood-couch-what-made-oscar-pistorius-run-afoul-law

 

[Estelle]

Yes, it's strange how he regularly states things like: "I have proof it didn't happen like you say it did" - "I have emails that prove you weren't with Oscar at the time" - "I have proof that Oscar called security first" (to discredit Baba) - and then comes up with nada. On the other hand, if anyone was lying on the stand, I'm sure the threats of 'proof' might cause them to reconsider their testimony. So far, Roux's threats have come up empty.

I'd also have thought that by law, the DT would have been legally obliged to hand in the 5th phone immediately, not hold onto it for days. What were they doing with it??

Do you think that Gerrie Nel would have warned and prepared the witnesses and told them just to keep repeating what they saw or heard and to ignore Roux?

 

[shane13]

I don't suppose anyone even bothered checking Oscar for any injuries, scratches etc, or taking photographs of him. Was there a mugshot?

Roux has said they have photos--implying they came from PT, of Oscar--including him wearing the medcial pain patch on his shoulder.
This I have predicted could be big in several ways.

 

[minor4th]

On Monday, however, Roux said call records showed Pistorius called security first,
but could not speak because he was "indeed crying".

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/10/oscar-pistorius-vomits-court-reeva-steenkamp-injuries

Does anyone know if Roux has produced these call records? They're crucial because if OP did in fact call security first, then it shows he tried to get help before being forced to do it. Roux has claimed he can prove many things, but I've yet to see him do it. Surely he wouldn't be so stupid as to pretend he has call records that show Baba is mistaken about the call sequence? Would he?

He produced them during Baba's testimony and they showed that Oscar first called security at 3:15:51 and that Baba returned his call 50 seconds later

 

[Cherwell]

To me it seemed that there were unheard of and unenforceable restrictions on reporting afterwards - largely because of unclear directives and confusion on the part of the judiciary. The only reason we have reports, I believe, is because journalists and their publications were courageous and tooks risks.

If no info was ever released, and at the end of the trial Oscar was found not guilty and the judge said she based her decision on pathology testimony that nobody could hear or see......well, I don't think justice would be seen to be done, in that case.

It will all be on record though, plus it wasn't in camera. I can't see the big deal, tbh. Not so long ago our only option was to read about a trial in the papers the following day.
In the UK we don't have televised trials, and it's only quite recently that reporters have used Twitter from court. Even then there is often stuff that cannot be reported, more so when there is a jury involved.

 

[shane13]

This article may be right about the psyche of OP that fatal night:

"Oscar did feel vulnerable, despite his long list of awe-inspiring athletic accomplishments, not just because of his physical congenital disability, but, because of psychological childhood traumas.

Oscar was traumatized at age six by his parents’ divorce, his subsequent estrangement from his father, and at age 15, his mother’s death. She’d been a cheerleader for him, encouraging him not to let his disability define him. Her passing would have been experienced as a profound abandonment to a teen boy who was so dependent upon her love.

In Oscar’s adult life, reports of a darker side surfaced, including a hair-trigger temper, drinking, and a reckless boating accident. There are even reports of the police coming out on domestic altercations between Oscar and Reeva before the shooting. So, there was already trouble in paradise, precisely because Oscar did feel vulnerable. He’d fallen in love with the angelic Reeva – a law school graduate, beautiful model and soon to be TV reality star. Unconsciously, he was terrified she would abandon him, just like the first love of his life - his mother – had done."

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2014/02/hollywood-couch-what-made-oscar-pistorius-run-afoul-law

Very superficial, as is most of what comes from MSM; and not on point or very useful in comprehending the crime.

 

[minor4th]

So they were both in bed at 10pm but not yet asleep. I find it a little odd that he said "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier". What did that have to do with the events that night? He's not recounting what happened at that point, he's putting forth feelings of love and commitment which seem out of place when he's just supposed to be saying what happened that night. I find it almost a defence thing.

I agree - it is out of place and defensive

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't suppose anyone even bothered checking Oscar for any injuries, scratches etc, or taking photographs of him. Was there a mugshot?

He was examined the next day, ie 15th, if my memory serves me right. He spent the night of 14th in the local police station. We haven't heard whether there was anything found except Roux says OP was wearing a shoulder strapping which he also had on 13th Feb.

 

[Estelle]

For anyone who has trouble, like me, picturing without a picture, I have made this initial diagram. Please excuse the roughness - it's done with a finger paint app.

Here are the bullet wounds, bruises and abrasions I think we have so far ( inc. three bullet entrance wounds but only two exits at the back.)

I left out any possible left arm injury as I am really not sure if there was one.

I've included a close up of that odd little wound between the second and third finger that the pathologist found.

This is excellent, Thank you. If ever there was a case of domestic violence, this is it! Maybe not the worst but up there!

As the Judge is experienced in dealing with domestic violence through her experience as a Social Worker, let's hope she make the right decision as to sentencing.

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

Feynman, in Post #502 on this very page, I posted the link to one of the many articles on OP's watching of X-rated *advertiser censored*. SO IT IS NOT SPECULATION.[/url]

Yes we all know about the MSM saying OP was watching X-rated material. No one has described it as "violent" in the MSM to my knowledge. However, people here have thrown the term "violent" into the mix, and speculated on it. That was my point.

 

[soozieqtips]

He produced them during Baba's testimony and they showed that Oscar first called security at 3:15:51 and that Baba returned his call 50 seconds later

I didn't know he'd actually produced the records. I thought he said he 'would' produce them. Is it fact they've been produced?

 

[Carol70]

In hot countries, some women do not wear bras or pants. I live in Australia, and when it's hot, I do not always wear bras and pants underneath outer garments.

For sure, to sleep yes, but not surely during the day when you are out and about?? Haha, think I'm too old to go commondo :blushing: and it gets stinking hot here too, we just had the hottest February I can ever recall.

 

[passionflower]

Question please........Reeva had a Valentines Present for OP.
But OP was suppose to open "next" day............
Did OP have a gift for Reeva?
Sorry if I missed the answer earlier.

 

[Carol70]

Was there specific mention of this anywhere? I have not seen this. I assumed she was wearing a bra and underwear unless her Nike shorts had a sewn-in panty as some do.

In any case, sure, sleeping in a tank top without a bra would be natural. But sleeping with street shorts on would not be. Unless she was wearing some of Oscar's shorts which would be roomy enough for comfort.

No, it appears she was just wearing the vest and shorts. The ME said she came to him naked and her clothes separate which were shirts and vest, no mention of underwear. However, due to the media block, we can only speculate now.:banghead:

 

[shane13]

For sure, to sleep yes, but not surely during the day when you are out and about?? Haha, think I'm too old to go commondo :blushing: and it gets stinking hot here too, we just had the hottest February I can ever recall.

Carol--you braless person, you-- Given it was so hot, do you sleep in great constant fear, yet leave your balcony window open with the fan on, correction 2 fans on?