Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

[Carol70]

The video analysis recorded the sounds at 170 meters. They were both clearly audible and sounded similar. I thought the cricket bat sound was not quite as loud as the gunshots, but still very loud and the quality or tone of the sound was the same

I thought so too (if we are talking about the same video) I thought that the bat sounds when the camera was next to the guy hitting the door didn't sound like gunshots at all...I was very surprised when I heard the bat sounds from the recorder at the 170 mark, not identical but very similar...and in the middle of the night, just being awoken from sleep, I would absolutely think I was hearing gun shots- no doubt about it.

I know the circumstances are very different, so is the setting and a lot has to be taken into account. But I'm glad I saw it could be possible!

 

[shane13]

Truth be told, I don't think OP needed to include in his affidavit that they went to bed and had passionate sex, (if they did).. He actually might have thought that was not relevant at the time and a detail the general public didn't need to know...So in fact, we know they went to bed at 10... Put the lights off...and who knows what they did next although I'm sure that is something roux might bring up to show they were attracted to each other and happy enough at that time. (Again, if they did have sex)

??

Hmmm
had sent you the quote from BH affi: "After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep..."

If anything it implies they both fell asleep w.o. inferrring that there was any sex.

 

[aa9511]

This is what I've compiled from several reports. Puzzled by the description of the fractured left arm.

HEAD
...likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.
...a bullet entered Steenkamp's head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head.
...a bulk of the projectile went into the brain.
...upper eyelids were blue-reddish
...soft tissue swelling but no injury to the eyes.
...not caused by direct trauma but a fracture to the skull.
...Steenkamp did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound.
...described the wound to her head as an incapacitating wound
...physical damage to the brain because of a substantial fracture to the base of the skull.

RIGHT HIP/GROIN
...a gunshot wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. He said a defect he had seen on Steenkamp's pants was in line with this wound.
...right hip bone was shattered and this was likely to cause immediate instability.
..."painful wound"
...injuries to her arm and her right groin or hip area could have been fatal
...would have collapsed and, unless she had something to grip onto, it would have been difficult to get back up.
...incapacitating injury that if not operated on immediately could be fatal. He said there was a 50/50 chance of surviving the injury.
...a blue discoloration on her inner right buttocks that could have been caused from the bullet wound to her right hip.

RIGHT ARM
...right arm was shattered, leaving it with no functionality.
...right upper arm had a bluish discolouration surrounding that wound.


LEFT ARM ???
...upper left arm was deformed due to the amount of fracture...

OTHER
Wounds were caused by multiple small fragments. There was bruising in skin around the wounds.
...a grouping of abrasions, superficial fractures, on the skin of Steenkamp's torso. ...not penetrating injuries.
...injuries to her left groin but these were superficial small abrasions, possibly caused by wooden splinters
...a wound that he noted on Steenkamp's left hand that was between her second and third finger.
Abrasions on her body suggested damage from a blunt object, or projectiles that lost the force to penetrate the skin.
...a few bruises on her body that were not as a result of the shooting.
...no injury to the eyes.
...bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin.
...a reddish bruise on the right nipple. ...could have been caused by frictional contact.
...two scratches on her back. This could have been caused by a blunt object or shrapnel.

http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-m...ole-pistorius/

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b061...ned-bruising-on-her-back,-buttocks-and-breast

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...esigned-to-maximise-tissue-damage-pathologist

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-used-expanding-bullets-expert-1.1659043#.Ux34c4WPNpV

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-head-wound-fatal-pathologist-1.1659020#.Ux34foWPNpW

Re: the head wound. It says there was, obviously, the bullet wound. The there is the part about the fracture to the skull, "substantial fracture to the base of the skull." So do they think someone hit her on the base of her skull? I am thinking it could have also possibly been from maybe her head hitting the toilet as she fell down?

 

[minor4th]

Okay, thanks. So OP called security before he'd bashed in the door?



If OP called security at 3.15, that would have been before Stipp heard the second lot of 'booms' that Roux claims were the cricket bat, and before OP bashed in the door (at 3.17). The timings are incorrect somewhere. Having said that, there are 4 clocks in my house, and they all say something different by a couple of minutes. I'd expect official phone records to be correct though.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/pistorius-trial-mysterious-boom-boom-boom-shots/

I'm sorry it was Stipp who called at 3:15:51.

So here's the sequence:

3:15:51 Stipp called security landline to report "gunshots" - the call lasted 16 seconds

3:16 - two more neighbors called security landline

3:21:33 - Oscar called security on their mobile number, it lasted 9 seconds long, only crying is heard

3:22:05 - Baba returned Oscar's call from the security mobile phone ("security, everthing is fine")

Despite the phone records, Baba still insists that he called Oscar first, and Oscar called him back and said everything is fine


This should help:

[video=youtube;ShaRDXosc-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShaRDXosc-c[/video]

 

[Carol70]

Carol--you braless person, you-- Given it was so hot, do you sleep in great constant fear, yet leave your balcony window open with the fan on, correction 2 fans on?

Haha

Actually, we did sleep with our bedroom door open but with the slamlock firmly in place and 2 dogs sleeping in the room too. Grief, it was so hot we could have suffocated for lack of air. Terrible.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Truth be told, I don't think OP needed to include in his affidavit that they went to bed and had passionate sex, (if they did).. He actually might have thought that was not relevant at the time and a detail the general public didn't need to know...So in fact, we know they went to bed at 10... Put the lights off...and who knows what they did next although I'm sure that is something roux might bring up to show they were attracted to each other and happy enough at that time. (Again, if they did have sex)

LOL, Carol, I didn't suggest anything about having sex or not. We were discussing whether they watched *advertiser censored* together. I agreed with Minor 4th that I would not consider this unusual but the timing may be important. Meaning, if they were asleep until 3am, as OP says, and he has been found to be watching *advertiser censored* at 1am/2am it creates yet another unexplainable flaw in his testimony. I think a lot of young couples watch *advertiser censored*, soft and hard. I don't have a problem with that. It is not something I would do but I am not my 'brother's keeper'. It would be entirely up to them what they watched.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"He produced them during Baba's testimony and they showed that Oscar first called security at 3:15:51 and that Baba returned his call 50 seconds later"

The above information is INCORRECT. The 3:15:51 call to Security LANDLINE was by the DOCTOR.

THERE IS A CALL THAT BELONGS HERE THAT ROUX IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGING. THIS IS THE CALL WHERE GUARD FIRST CALLED OP. THIS IS WHEN OP SAID "EVERYTHING IS FINE". And then hung up.

OP's call to Security CELLPHONE at 3:21:33. It was a seven second call. OP was crying. (This is the call that the guard thought might have been a mistake on the part of OP.)


If the guard said it once, he said it about 6 times in today's testimony. Today. Very clearly. That HE (the guard) called OP FIRST. After he talked to the Doctor at the doctor's house.

The clip posted above is from this past Friday. The back and forth questioning being talked about was TODAY'S testimony.

 

[aa9511]

Now since someone has just asked me about my recent hypotheses.
But understand before I list them that I must be accredited with my writings and hypotheses, in your future posts.

1. It was something else other than rage, or in addition to it, that was OP’s state of mind.
2. RE the whole gunshot, “batshots”, screaming last 20 minutes or so of Reeva’s life. The number of shooting volleys may be different than both sides in the trial are alleging. Likewise for the timing of gunshots and batshots, screaming etc.
3. The final killing of Reeva may have been done in a more horrifying way than anyone else has depicted here. And HINT this hypothesis relates to all my other points here (except last one).
4. There are medical issues in play here but I am not asking for anyone to know this really, just the brain states.
5. Oscar’s crying and covering his ears etc, even the barfing, I assert is not likely fake or an act, but relates deeply again to his underlying problems, which relates to my other points herein.
6. There may be another recent one if I can later recall it. Again make sure to accedit me for all this, or else I may be gone and you may not get to know vastly more that I have written. ©Shane13

Now do me proud, HAVE FUN with your replies, and get back to me.

Shane13, I'm sorry to say that I am still confused. I think you're alluding to something sexual, but not sure? And I don't know how his barfing and covering up ears plays into it?

 

[minor4th]

"He produced them during Baba's testimony and they showed that Oscar first called security at 3:15:51 and that Baba returned his call 50 seconds later"

The above information is INCORRECT. The 3:15:51 call to Security LANDLINE was by the DOCTOR.

THERE IS A CALL THAT BELONGS HERE THAT ROUX IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGING. THIS IS THE CALL WHERE GUARD FIRST CALLED OP. THIS IS WHEN OP SAID "EVERYTHING IS FINE". And then hung up.

OP's call to Security CELLPHONE at 3:21:33. It was a seven second call. OP was crying. (This is the call that the guard thought might have been a mistake on the part of OP.)


If the guard said it once, he said it about 6 times in today's testimony. Today. Very clearly. That HE (the guard) called OP FIRST. After he talked to the Doctor at the doctor's house.

The clip posted above is from this past Friday. The back and forth questioning being talked about was TODAY'S testimony.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Oscar Pistorius Trial Discussion thread, 10 March 2014 - #3

 

[shane13]

Haha

Actually, we did sleep with our bedroom door open but with the slamlock firmly in place and 2 dogs sleeping in the room too. Grief, it was so hot we could have suffocated for lack of air. Terrible.

Very hot, failed country.

 

[soozieqtips]

"He produced them during Baba's testimony and they showed that Oscar first called security at 3:15:51 and that Baba returned his call 50 seconds later"

The above information is INCORRECT. The 3:15:51 call to Security LANDLINE was by the DOCTOR.

THERE IS A CALL THAT BELONGS HERE THAT ROUX IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGING. THIS IS THE CALL WHERE GUARD FIRST CALLED OP. THIS IS WHEN OP SAID "EVERYTHING IS FINE". And then hung up.

OP's call to Security CELLPHONE at 3:21:33. It was a seven second call. OP was crying. (This is the call that the guard thought might have been a mistake on the part of OP.)


If the guard said it once, he said it about 6 times in today's testimony. Today. Very clearly. That HE (the guard) called OP FIRST. After he talked to the Doctor at the doctor's house.

The clip posted above is from this past Friday. The back and forth questioning being talked about was TODAY'S testimony.

BBM - thank you!! I wondered where that call had vanished to! minor4th's just corrected the 3.15 call, and I'm about to watch the video clip, although it's 24 minutes long.

minor - a clue as to where in the clip the records are produced?

EDIT - just realised I don't need to watch the clip as we know Stipp made the call to security, not OP. That's 24mins of my life saved

 

[minor4th]

Although Baba said 6 times that he called OP first, the phone records say otherwise. If there was a phone call left out by Roux, both Baba and Nel were there looking at the records and presumably would have pointed it out. The judge also accepted the records into evidence, so it's not like Roux would try to trick the judge by leaving out a phone call.

 

[shane13]

Shane13, I'm sorry to say that I am still confused. I think you're alluding to something sexual, but not sure? And I don't know how his barfing and covering up ears plays into it?

Thank you.
Kindly use my #s in your reply, because I cant be sure which points you refer to.
But please do not ask me to merely provide the answers, it was posed for sleuthing by y'all.

Update: Nothing sexual I think in all my answers awaiting

 

[minor4th]

BBM - thank you!! I wondered where that call had vanished to! minor4th's just corrected the 3.15 call, and I'm about to watch the video clip, although it's 24 minutes long.

minor - a clue as to where in the clip the records are produced?

It is right at the beginning - the rest of the video is Roux and Baba looking at the records and questioning about the times.

 

[21merc7]

Besides the possible violent tendencies related to watching violent *advertiser censored*, I think the curiosity about it is because OP and Reeva were a fairly "new" couple. Granted they may both have enjoyed watching *advertiser censored*, but on Valentine's Day, most women would think that a no no. Unless kink was their thing.

Also, rated X *advertiser censored* in the U.S. is just *advertiser censored*. There is soft *advertiser censored*, x *advertiser censored*, xx *advertiser censored*, *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored*, then it runs off into BDSM *advertiser censored*, and who knows what the break down any further than that is. (Too many male friends that think they can shock me. Hello, I am well over 45, lol.) Don't know what titles would be outside of U.S. or if media is more polite with details outside of U.S.

 

[minor4th]

Besides the possible violent tendencies related to watching violent *advertiser censored*, I think the curiosity about it is because OP and Reeva were a fairly "new" couple. Granted they may both have enjoyed watching *advertiser censored*, but on Valentine's Day, most women would think that a no no. Unless kink was their thing.

Also, rated X *advertiser censored* in the U.S. is just *advertiser censored*. There is soft *advertiser censored*, x *advertiser censored*, xx *advertiser censored*, *advertiser censored* *advertiser censored*, then it runs off into BDSM *advertiser censored*, and who knows what the break down any further than that is. (Too many male friends that think they can shock me. Hello, I am well over 45, lol.) Don't know what titles would be outside of U.S. or if media is more polite with details outside of U.S.

There is nothing to indicate Oscar was watching "violent *advertiser censored*"

 

[21merc7]

There is nothing to indicate Oscar was watching "violent *advertiser censored*"

I know. That is why I broke down the categories.

 

[Carol70]

BBM - and yet he thought it relevant to put in his affidavit (sandwiched in between the actual events of that night) that they were deeply in love and he knew she felt the same way. He thought it relevant to speak on his dead girlfriend's behalf.

All due respect, there is a big difference between declarations of love and giving a run down on your sexual activities to the general public, which would then include those same activities of your now dead girlfriend. And considering the lovely valentines gift she got him, with heart sweeties included, maybe she actually WAS deeply in love!

 

[minor4th]

"He produced them during Baba's testimony and they showed that Oscar first called security at 3:15:51 and that Baba returned his call 50 seconds later"

The above information is INCORRECT. The 3:15:51 call to Security LANDLINE was by the DOCTOR.

THERE IS A CALL THAT BELONGS HERE THAT ROUX IS NOT ACKNOWLEDGING. THIS IS THE CALL WHERE GUARD FIRST CALLED OP. THIS IS WHEN OP SAID "EVERYTHING IS FINE". And then hung up.

OP's call to Security CELLPHONE at 3:21:33. It was a seven second call. OP was crying. (This is the call that the guard thought might have been a mistake on the part of OP.)


If the guard said it once, he said it about 6 times in today's testimony. Today. Very clearly. That HE (the guard) called OP FIRST. After he talked to the Doctor at the doctor's house.

The clip posted above is from this past Friday. The back and forth questioning being talked about was TODAY'S testimony.

Given that Baba's testimony is contradicted by the phone records - the logical conclusion is that Baba is mistaken about the sequence of calls and their timing

 

[soozieqtips]

Although Baba said 6 times that he called OP first, the phone records say otherwise. If there was a phone call left out by Roux, both Baba and Nel were there looking at the records and presumably would have pointed it out. The judge also accepted the records into evidence, so it's not like Roux would try to trick the judge by leaving out a phone call.

But why would Baba invent a phone call out of thin air when he knows the call records will show he either made it or didn't make it. Not logical for him to lie about it, surely? Has OP denied getting a call from Baba? Was it to his 5th phone? The more I learn, the less I know!