Trial Discussion Thread #4 - 14.03.10, Day 6

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All due respect, there is a big difference between declarations of love and giving a run down on your sexual activities to the general public, which would then include those same activities of your now dead girlfriend. And considering the lovely valentines gift she got him, with heart sweeties included, maybe she actually WAS deeply in love!
BBM - looks like her friends and family will be hotly disputing that. Declarations of love had no place in his affidavit. It was just to establish what happened that night, not what he thought his g/friend felt about him.
 
But why would Baba invent a phone call out of thin air when he knows the call records will show he either made it or didn't make it. Not logical for him to lie about it, surely? Has OP denied getting a call from Baba? Was it to his 5th phone? The more I learn, the less I know!

I don't think he's lying - I think he is mistaken and remembers it incorrectly. The records clearly indicate that Oscar called Baba at 3:21:33 and Baba called Oscar back at 3:22:05. Roux also refers to Oscar's phone records that corroborate this and mentions that Nel is not disputing it. You should watch the link because it makes it pretty clear.
 
Lovey Dovey new couples usually have a BIG Valentines Day affair.
Seems odd to me that she didn't have a present and told him to wait
til the next day to open his from her. I wonder if a fight started over that?
JMO

This may be splitting hairs, but it wasn't actually Valentines Day. It was the night of 13th February. That explains not opening the gift until the next day.
It also gives OP the chance to say he had something special planned, whether or not that was the case [/cynical]
 
Re: the head wound. It says there was, obviously, the bullet wound. The there is the part about the fracture to the skull, "substantial fracture to the base of the skull." So do they think someone hit her on the base of her skull? I am thinking it could have also possibly been from maybe her head hitting the toilet as she fell down?
I didn't get that impression, but of course, we're information challenged. I'm inclined to believe the fracture at the base of the skull was caused by the bullet exiting the skull. JMO If so, wouldn't that mean he shot down at her from a higher point? Why would he shoot downward from outside the door?
 
I don't think he's lying - I think he is mistaken and remembers it incorrectly. The records clearly indicate that Oscar called Baba at 3:21:33 and Baba called Oscar back at 3:22:05. Roux also refers to Oscar's phone records that corroborate this and mentions that Nel is not disputing it. You should watch the link because it makes it pretty clear.

These records, can we see them anywhere, or are you just going by what Roux says?
 
The MSM called it X-rated maybe because they did not want to reveal that it was "violent" but if it was violent *advertiser censored*, what do you call it in terms of rating?

IMO this could explain motive and could add weight to the fact that it was not a loving relationship as OP has claimed. There are also psychological factors which might be relevant such as sex addiction.

X rated does not mean violent, it's just means *advertiser censored*. It appears the only reports of it being violent are on here. As Feynman said, no one really says x rated anymore. I don't know what "rating" violent *advertiser censored* would have as *advertiser censored* doesn't have ratings based on content. I don't want to sound like some kind of *advertiser censored* expert (oh, me) but we need to report facts not speculation.
 
So they were both in bed at 10pm but not yet asleep. I find it a little odd that he said "We were deeply in love and I could not be happier". What did that have to do with the events that night? He's not recounting what happened at that point, he's putting forth feelings of love and commitment which seem out of place when he's just supposed to be saying what happened that night. I find it almost a defence thing.

Yes, I have seen this in many cases. They always add these things in to compensate.

Note that he talks about this specifically when he's talking about the time period right before they " went to sleep." This indicates to me that right afterewards, the arguing started, b/c this is the moment when he feels the need to say right there hoe "in love" they are.

Also, if we think about events of that night, there would be no need for him to lie about the time before they started arguing. So she probably really did do yoga, etc.. But he cuts off thr night once the arguing begins. That's when he cuts straight to "sleep."

Jmo.
 
These records, can we see them anywhere, or are you just going by what Roux says?

Please watch the link to the video I provided and see for yourself the entire context and the discussion of the records that were admitted into evidence and reviewed in open court
 
Although Baba said 6 times that he called OP first, the phone records say otherwise. If there was a phone call left out by Roux, both Baba and Nel were there looking at the records and presumably would have pointed it out. The judge also accepted the records into evidence, so it's not like Roux would try to trick the judge by leaving out a phone call.

I don't think this means he's lying though. He may not have heard the first call or it may not have gone through or any number of things. That he called first works in favor of Oscar though.
 
The MSM called it X-rated maybe because they did not want to reveal that it was "violent" but if it was violent *advertiser censored*, what do you call it in terms of rating?

IMO this could explain motive and could add weight to the fact that it was not a loving relationship as OP has claimed. There are also psychological factors which might be relevant such as sex addiction.
I can't see why the MSM would hide "violent"; it would be a field day for them (and their advertisers). Anyway your "did not want to reveal" is pure speculation.

If X-rated material is in addition violent, I'd call it violent X-rated material.

As to "could explain motive", yes it could. But then that would be speculation. All the speculation about "violent" that I've seen has been here on WS.
 
I'm sorry, but the *advertiser censored* on his phone means nothing to me. Men watch *advertiser censored*. Whether they're in a relationship, whether they're in love, whether they're married. I've never met a single man that didn't. There's *advertiser censored* on my husband's phone. X rated! It is just what it is. This doesn't mean anything in relation to Oscar's feelings for Reeva or his having "violent" tendencies. It means he's a man with a phone that has internet.
 
All due respect, there is a big difference between declarations of love and giving a run down on your sexual activities to the general public, which would then include those same activities of your now dead girlfriend. And considering the lovely valentines gift she got him, with heart sweeties included, maybe she actually WAS deeply in love!

Possibly, or possibly the following.

Both sides will have their say if the 2 attys choose to present in court.
Afterall it is really not necessary for the crime if there is enough "hard" evidence. Nonethless it relates to the arguing issue.

But you raise a valid point, Carol about Reeva.

Her 2 best frineds, cousin Kim Martin and Gina Myers said no great love affair on her part. Recently friend Sam Greyvanstein changed her mind and may testify for PT against the notion she earlier espoused that Reeva would have married him.

Thee are no saints in this world, and in all fairness it's been raised whether she to some extent was using her country's 2nd greatest icon to possibly further her career.

One would say that if as Reeva's Mom has revealed they were arguing from the beginning, and given that Reeva's life was in jeopardy from the speeding event where June had to threaten him with the mafia to slow down--that many people would have broken up with him. Clearly her life was threatened and he did not abide her request to slow down.

I had 1 person in my life who did that speeding thing and tailgating and did not listen to me. I never got in a car with him again, and had little to do with him otherwise... Numerous people like Mr. Myers warned her not to keep going out with him.

Yet Reeva still dated him and gave him that photo of the 2 together for V-Day.

Was she in part using him for her career? We will see what testimony reveals. Of course, she could have and still come to love him. Or because he may be different at different times, had a very complex thing with him, because IMO he has complex problems.
 
I don't think this means he's lying though. He may not have heard the first call or it may not have gone through or any number of things. That he called first works in favor of Oscar though.

Right, as I said above, I do not think he was lying - but I do think he is mistaken. He said that he did hear the crying when Oscar called him, but at the time he wouldn't have known it was Oscar.
 
He was examined the next day, ie 15th, if my memory serves me right. He spent the night of 14th in the local police station. We haven't heard whether there was anything found except Roux says OP was wearing a shoulder strapping which he also had on 13th Feb.


That's right ;)

After being held at the Boschkop police station, Pistorius was taken by high-speed convoy for a medical examination at the Mamelodi Day Clinic on the eastern outskirts of Pretoria, according to local reports.

There, hospital staff took blood samples, tested under nails and looked for scratches and bruises, a police spokeswoman said.

http://sportdailynews1.blogspot.de/2013/02/pistorius-on-murder-charge-after.html


And remember these 2 images:

February 14th, 2013
nose: scratch
jacket: 2 bloodstains




February 19th, 2013
scratches: nose, around the ear, neck
swelling (?): neck


.
.
 

Have just watched that second video, and found it a strain to understand some of the translators utterances, however, here is a transcript of what I find interesting:

Roux produces a document provided by the State of calls received by security to its landline.

Dr Stipps at 3:15:51 saying he heard gunshots.

Mr Nhlegenthwa called at 3:16:13 and again at 3:16: 36. I am sure that is the name given by Roux, and if I am correct, Mr Nhlegenthwa is Pistorius's immediate neighbor to the left of Pistorius's house as one looks at it from the front.

Roux questions that Dr Stipp actually spoke to security and security (Baba) confirms that he spoke to both Stipp and Nhlegenthwa.

Roux then goes to security cell phone number and provides exhibit R to the Judge and points out item 14, calls by Pistorius to security at 3:21:33 (lasts 9 seconds of Pistorius crying). Baba confirms that. Roux then points out documented call from security to Pistorius at 3:22:05.

Baba is adamant that he called security first and fathomed that something was wrong, saying that if Pistorius had called him, he'd have known something was wrong. Baba said that he called Pistorius and that Pistorius said that everything was fine and he heard Pistorius crying and the phone line was lost. Then Pistorius phoned him back butt the line went dead.

Roux says that the version the State elected to rely upon was: security called Pistorius and when asked by the security guard (after he had shot the deceased) if everything was in order (Roux's exact words) and he (Pistorius) indicated that he was fine. Roux said: "that is the version chosen by the State.



Note, the quality of recording and accents makes it difficult to understand more, it's late and I'm tired here, so I cannot continue to try and get a transcript of the rest of this video, bed calls! FrancesB
 
This is what I've compiled from several reports. Puzzled by the description of the fractured left arm.

HEAD
...likely that one of the bullets had passed through Steenkamp's arm and into her head.
...a bullet entered Steenkamp's head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head.
...a bulk of the projectile went into the brain.
...upper eyelids were blue-reddish
...soft tissue swelling but no injury to the eyes.
...not caused by direct trauma but a fracture to the skull.
...Steenkamp did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound.
...described the wound to her head as an incapacitating wound
...physical damage to the brain because of a substantial fracture to the base of the skull.

RIGHT HIP/GROIN
...a gunshot wound to her right hip, 92cm from the ground. He said a defect he had seen on Steenkamp's pants was in line with this wound.
...right hip bone was shattered and this was likely to cause immediate instability.
..."painful wound"
...injuries to her arm and her right groin or hip area could have been fatal
...would have collapsed and, unless she had something to grip onto, it would have been difficult to get back up.
...incapacitating injury that if not operated on immediately could be fatal. He said there was a 50/50 chance of surviving the injury.
...a blue discoloration on her inner right buttocks that could have been caused from the bullet wound to her right hip.

RIGHT ARM
...right arm was shattered, leaving it with no functionality.
...right upper arm had a bluish discolouration surrounding that wound.


LEFT ARM ???
...upper left arm was deformed due to the amount of fracture...

OTHER
Wounds were caused by multiple small fragments. There was bruising in skin around the wounds.
...a grouping of abrasions, superficial fractures, on the skin of Steenkamp's torso. ...not penetrating injuries.
...injuries to her left groin but these were superficial small abrasions, possibly caused by wooden splinters
...a wound that he noted on Steenkamp's left hand that was between her second and third finger.
Abrasions on her body suggested damage from a blunt object, or projectiles that lost the force to penetrate the skin.
...a few bruises on her body that were not as a result of the shooting.
...no injury to the eyes.
...bruises on the upper part of the right thigh that were not linked to the shooting and behind the left knee and the left shin.
...a reddish bruise on the right nipple. ...could have been caused by frictional contact.
...two scratches on her back. This could have been caused by a blunt object or shrapnel.

http://citizen.co.za/141361/family-m...ole-pistorius/

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b7b061...ned-bruising-on-her-back,-buttocks-and-breast

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...esigned-to-maximise-tissue-damage-pathologist

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-used-expanding-bullets-expert-1.1659043#.Ux34c4WPNpV

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-head-wound-fatal-pathologist-1.1659020#.Ux34foWPNpW

coming out of :lurk: mode....

:tyou: Bessie :goodpost:

someone should repost this on a "no discussion" thread, if there is one! Just a suggestion! :blushing:

a couple thoughts...

on the second point re Head injury: a bullet entered Steenkamp's head in the right upper part, and ran under the skull before it exited from a second wound in the head. I noticed in post #443 it said: the right side of her head above her ear.

And then on your second point under Hip/Groin injury:
...right hip bone was shattered and this was likely to cause immediate instability.
..."painful wound"


re bold - could be that "blood curdling scream" that the neighbor heard??

Thanks to all that have posted the goings on at the trial!! Truly appreciated!!
:gthanks:

now back to :lurk: mode and reading! :seeya:
 
Truth be told, I don't think OP needed to include in his affidavit that they went to bed and had passionate sex, (if they did).. He actually might have thought that was not relevant at the time and a detail the general public didn't need to know...So in fact, we know they went to bed at 10... Put the lights off...and who knows what they did next although I'm sure that is something roux might bring up to show they were attracted to each other and happy enough at that time. (Again, if they did have sex)

...just wanted to point out that this is not a proven fact yet that we know for sure. This is what Oscar says occurred.

.
 
which means.. she could have been screaming AFTER the head shot..

Roux is going to have a lot of trouble with that... so are a few posters...


be interesting when Roux cross examines him,, already Roux has stated categorically, that no one, not anyone can be alive after the head shot, and the head shot was first, therefore, all witness to a woman screaming are nuts..

She might have been unconscious.
 
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