MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #8

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One never knows who may have money but they do appear destitute and their coarseness + seemingly lack of intelligence don't mesh with a sophisticated kidnapper. However, their brashness, quickness to anger + violence, and brazen attitude towards LE sure fit the criminal act. I wonder about the 50 bucks + stolen farm parts...sounds like a cover story giving DH an excuse to shoot TL....did DH shoot him for other reasons? Perhaps regarding accusations of DH abducting JW?

from what I read of the court case, the son did chores on the farm where the teacher was at. The teacher was staying on the farm while his dad was away for the weekend. Tim thought his chores were too hard and apparently was hunting on the land. The teacher told him to get off of the property. The son lied to the dad saying the teacher threatened to kill them and he stole $50 from him. I believe both were lies to get his dad upset.
 
For whatever they are worth, a few observations:

1) I have know of unofficial, unauthorized road just sort of developing on undeveloped land. If the land between the Del-Win and 95th was otherwise passable, It is very possible that a dirt track existed, perhaps near where Jefferson is today. That could be the "back road" Kevin was referring to. It would also be a place a vehicle have been stashed if there was a path through the woods that separated 95th from DR's farmhouse.

2) Something I find very strange is that nobody from Law Enforcement contacted DR before he called 911 at around 11:30. By that time that had had dogs and men with flashlights searching around the wood piles. They appear to have made the assumption that Jacob had been taken away in a vehicle that was parked along the driveway but they must have assumed it turned around well before it could be seen from DR's farmhouse. Perhaps the was a "turn-around" near where Jacob's footprints were seen. Whatever, they didn't deem it necessary to knock on DR's door and ask if he had seen anything.

3) Gravel tracks tend to have two parallel ruts with a raised area right down the middle. Most people drive right down the middle with their wheels in the ruts. These grooves tend to be hard-packed but the dirt on either side is more likely to be soft. I am wondering if the spot where the photo of Jacobs footprints are next to the vehicle tracks believed to be Kevin's is what could be a "pull-over" spot or if the tracks were in the grooves. Does anyone know?

4) One of the surviving boys said that, at first, he thought it was an older kid playing a joke. I know the assailant wore a mask, had a gravelly voice and it was pretty dark, but impressions based on build, posture and body language often are accurate regarding age. I wonder if the assailant was very young.

5) Sexual predators who kill usually dump the body quickly at a location that they can't be linked to. Effectively concealing the body is unusual and is suggestive of planning and the likelihood that that the murder was premeditated. The Paynesville and Cold Springs cases did not involve unnecessary injury to the victim. Either the perp was different, this case represented a major escalation on the part of the perp or it was just a "grab and snatch" case that got out of hand and the perp saw fit to conceal the body. There are a number of cases when a rapist will stop after one of his rapes results in murder.
 
For whatever they are worth, a few observations:
2) Something I find very strange is that nobody from Law Enforcement contacted DR before he called 911 at around 11:30. By that time that had had dogs and men with flashlights searching around the wood piles. They appear to have made the assumption that Jacob had been taken away in a vehicle that was parked along the driveway but they must have assumed it turned around well before it could be seen from DR's farmhouse. Perhaps the was a "turn-around" near where Jacob's footprints were seen. Whatever, they didn't deem it necessary to knock on DR's door and ask if he had seen anything.

Kemo,

Brilliant! Really- points 1-5 is where I as going, exactly! #2 really sticks out to me.
I have no doubt it was a frantic and hectic scene to say the least, but in hindsight there seems to have been many errors.
This is a lot to think about...thanks for articulating it!
 
Your welcome! Sigrum can you elaborate axis 1 and axis 2 with DR in mind? I know you started to earlier. What else do you think?

Well, for our purposes an Axis I disorder generally refers to personality features that are amenable to change and are likely transient. Axis II disorders are disorders one is usually born with and are more ingrained and resistant to treatment or change. Personality “features” can include things like narcissism, histrionics, etc. When people observe comments DR makes and try to put his statements together as a kind of “tell” this is usually erroneous since doing so likely, even if accurate, is an Axis I feature. When certain personality types such as Anti-Social, Narcissism and Histrionics appear in, say, populations of persons convicted of capital crimes these are almost always Axis II. As you begin to become more intimately familiar with them you realize that this distinction is more than just academic. It really relates to predictability.

So, perfectly normal people can have narcissistic or histrionic traits, for example. But when those features become so pronounced that they reliably influence a person’s interaction with others and the public, it crosses into a different realm. It is persistent, resistant to change and is likely a feature of that person’s behavior at all or most of the times of their lives. When you’ve known one personally or intimately, you understand this intuitively. You know them like yourself, to some degree. This is not a widely accepted academic view, but those who have this experience know that this boundary is really defined by predictability. Human beings are notoriously unpredictable in virtually every behavior. But what you learn with some who are past this boundary is that certain behaviors characteristic of their feature set are robotically, almost perfectly reliable (increasingly predictable with severity). That doesn’t mean everything about them is predictable, just that this limited feature set is. What a lot of psychologists and psychiatrists who don’t have this experience can’t really speak to is this personal knowledge, and the realization that the academic classification of Axis I and Axis II really revolves around predictability. So, I would distinguish the types I’m referring to operationally with Axis I being unpredictable and transient and Axis II being, “hey, I know you, and I can predict you. And you can’t help it or stop yourself from being predictable.” What often doesn’t get published in plain English however, is that this distinction between Axis I and Axis II on the basis of predictability is pronounced and salient.

For criminology, this intuitive understanding of personality disorders is a gold mine because someone like this can tell you what a perpetrator is planning step by step in an uncanny way. Yep, that’s right, I said tell you what someone is planning, and I know the significance of the claim. I also know it to be true. But it’s nothing more magical or remarkable than intimate familiarity. So, knowing that perpetrators of almost all capital crimes, and those crimes that involve behaviors (feature sets) that come up with personality disorders, all have a weakness turns out to be a useful tool: a person who knows them can track them and predict them. You can’t do that with normal people. So, in the case of DR the first step is to observe and see if I recognize him. Simple as that. And I recognize him. But the next step is to ask which feature sets am I recognizing? Is it narcissistic, histrionic, anti-social, etc.? And am I trying to diagnose him? No, I don’t need to. All I’m trying to do is see what feature set is present because once I know, I can predict how he will behave when direct evidence for the behavior is absent. And it will be eerily accurate. Obviously, you can’t convict someone on that, but that’s not the point. The value in this is that what you are actually doing is identifying the underlying framework of his or her modus operandi. And that is an investigative tool.

But before I say anything, keep in mind that this entire conversation about DR depends entirely on understanding that the behaviors we DO know about that night actually are attributable to him.

So, when I see an adult personality picking up an 11 year old boy onto his back, who is a stranger or near so to him, and when I see his clown act down by the street, when I read about the questions he posed, when I see how he fled, when I recognize his sick jokes and dark humor and so on, I am tracking a consistent, single personality. And I know it’s likely the same one because of its rarity and predictability. Now, let us suppose I see an indication that he harbors the magical belief that the boy is sexually attracted to him. And I see he is running with this boy on his back. I can’t track JEW the same way because I can also tell from the crime scene he is in the normal range. He was cooperating but not willing. He experienced fear. The personality I’m tracking does not feel fear. A big mistake academics in my field make is thinking that increased heart rate represents fear and these people are reacting by feeling fear. In reality, one of the few emotions they are wired to actually feel is anger. They aren’t afraid or remorseful. They are angry that things aren’t going their way. And a personality like this will commit the most gruesome acts without flinching, batting an eye or drawing a breath. They will do it like they are drinking a glass of water. If they’re excited it’s only because they are angry. Other than that, it’s just a glass of water, a fork in scrambled eggs, pouring a glass of milk, whatever. This strange lack of wiring in the brain for certain types of emotions has been substantiated by brain scans, but few have recognized what this really means on a crime scene. But noticeably, various U.S. government agencies have known this for over thirty years and articles have been published on this.

So, I don’t know what the boy will do. Suppose something happens near the wood pile. Suppose the boy falls or tries to escape. I can’t know JEW will try to escape, but I certainly do know what the personality I’m tracking will do. He will quickly grab the nearest weapon and chase him. He will preserve his life for future exploitation, overpower the boy, and take him to a private place. He will continue his script. And he will have the presence of mind to fetch anything scattered about in that altercation. Likely finding his shoe if it came off, for example. He might not have time to find everything else, but his penchant for deception will absolutely demand that no one realize he passed this place, or carried this boy on his back. He will not feel fear, pity or remorse in his gut the way the rest of the world would. But more importantly, he is too full of himself to admit he had to attack the boy to gain his compliance. This defies his fantasy. It is a blatant contradiction between his imaginary, magical world and reality. And people, including their victims, exist to serve them in the same way that cardboard serves to package groceries. The concept of LIFE doesn’t exist in their brain. Everything is already dead. To them, words like “sorry” are not only meaningless but the object of considerable laughter and seen as just one manifestation of the naïve mind. But I’m not saying I can know this altercation happened from this alone (mainly because it would be instigated by chance or a normal person). But what I can see easily is how this kind of personality will obsess with that which undermines his ego and his fantasy of being desired by his obsession, which in this case would be JEW. All of this, of course, is magical thinking, but it is intensely real to the sufferer. And the really nice thing for tracking this is that they can’t help themselves, they just keep doing it, consistently and reliably.

The truly explosive scenario occurs when reality collides with magical thinking. This is a profoundly mysterious and troubling phenomenon for the sufferer. So much so it can become like a paranormal experience for them; a religious crucible. So, if an altercation had occurred, I’d expect this personality to exhibit a lot of focus on it, to be preoccupied with the scene (and wanting to return later and often, like it is a shrine). The inexplicable, super mysterious, enigmatic contradiction he experienced eats at his narcissism for years. How could this boy reject him? Why isn’t reality agreeing with … me? Didn’t he understand I was God? And if evidence were left there, or it is suspected that evidence might be there, this person’s ego alone will cause him to be very worried, not about going to jail so much, but about someone discovering his rejection; about someone discovering this all-too important contradiction. His belief in invulnerability and not going to jail is magical and supreme, but this personality’s need for ego affirmation runs deep.

Now fast forward and play this backward. Suppose I see indications of an undue focus on the log pile. Then I know something happened there that touched his disorder directly. And it likely had to do with narcissism because this is the primary feature set he displays. that is how I know a significant event happened there during the abduction. Altercation? Maybe, but something happened there and it ran deep. But given that fact, I also suspect that evidence might have been found there that night. Funny, but police intuition seemed to draw them right to the log pile. I wonder what they keyed on? This was off to the side of the driveway and it was at night. As was the case with Lizzie Andrew Borden and her barn loft, with Jon Benet Ramsey and the chair and with Amanda Marie Knox and the locked bedroom door, the log pile is that out of place oddity that only squares with a narrative when a personality disorder is introduced into the scene. This is one of the first things I look for in a crime scene. When I looked at this case I knew right way it was something that happened or existed near the driveway. And what DR ultimately did the night of the abduction was to, without realizing it himself, convert his “fear” or concern about something being discovered at the log pile by police into anger toward the police. The police were, at that point, operating against his interests and as is always the case with narcissism, were thus promoted to DR’s “enemy”. They were “bad” people because they did not serve his purpose. His supposed “upset” attitude when he called 911 was almost certainly anger at the attention being drawn to his pathology played out in his yard in living Technicolor that night. The police, the flashlights, the dogs the helicopter; all of this would drive a ferocious anger at being “highlighted” for his perverse behavior. Sadly, it is likely the victim who would be the target for venting it and I have zero doubt what would have happened.

So, seeing how messed up moderate to severe Axis II can be, this puts some perspective on Axis I and the “normal” population. When we see statements and behaviors that seem to comport with the same feature sets of personality disorders, there is about a 99.9% chance it corresponds to Axis I. Why? Because Axis II is so rare, and the presentation of Axis II will likely be evident in Axis I features well before its full extent is understood as a more permanent, stable feature. By definition, picking up on words and phrases a person uses is not likely to be reliable because of its transient nature.
You have to look at behaviors that are more ingrained parts of their everyday living to pin down an Axis II pattern.

~ svh
 
I think the Jared case fits the "grab and snatch" portfolio to a T. The perp didn't even have time to put on a mask or conceal his face. Though, he was familiar with the Kraemer's and knew they lived near by.

For whatever they are worth, a few observations:

5) Either the perp was different, this case represented a major escalation on the part of the perp or it was just a "grab and snatch" case that got out of hand and the perp saw fit to conceal the body. There are a number of cases when a rapist will stop after one of his rapes results in murder.
 
BBM

I've never heard any relative come forward to offer corroboration. In fact, no one has ever said they saw "Kevin" that night. I'm not even convinced there is a Kevin...at least in the real sense. Couldn't it be plausible that Kevin was invented by investigators? (Not sure what the purpose of this would be other than to throw the real perf off-guard.)

Now, if the Tom Thumb clerk or the cop stationed at the Cotton's office were on record somewhere stating they talked to a Kevin, then I guess he is real and his version of events could have happened.

Excellent points. To me, if LE made this person up it would be some kind of gross misconduct I can't define. And yes, I was hoping we had a name of a real person who really knew what time it was who was talking to Kevin at 9:15 p.m. Would have been nice.

~ svh
 
Jared believes all these cases are linked and this was all achieved by a single abductor and I'm inclined to believe him. He's spoken with the Wetterlings and some of the Paynesville victims.

There are too many consistencies in the Paynesville/Cold Spring/St Joseph that align to form the conclusion that these acts were carried out by the same indiviual. DR is completely out as he taught music class at ROCORI Middle School and Jared has confirmed that DR did not abduct him.

The commonality that a blue 4 door was present for these acts can't be ignored, and is the strongest piece of evidence. I'm inclined to believe that a hypnotized DR, just weeks after the Wetterling abduction spoke the truth.

I know some have talked about the car, but what connections between the car and people have been made so far? Can we list them out?

As for K&K, I don't believe 4 people corroborated to kidnap a kid on a whim, and than keep it a secret for 25 years.

I don't either.

~ svh
 
So, a man who's never shown any kind of history as a pedophile all of the sudden has thoughts that a boy is sexually attracted to him? This fails on so many levels. DR was around Middle School children for the better part of 30 years and there has never been rumors of any kind. I would know, I was a classmate of Jared's.

Now, let us suppose I see an indication that he harbors the magical belief that the boy is sexually attracted to him.
~ svh
 
This is completely unrelated to where the line of questioning is right now, but this was clipped from Kevin's Story on Joy's Blog where she is interviewing him. For whoever it was that was wondering if Kevin existed and why no one remembers him. This is where he was living in 1989 so someone from the area should remember him.

"...so they just decide to go back home to Kevin’s place. (Kevin had his own place behind Kay’s Kitchen.)"

Which is what I would have expected. Do you have a reference for the place where he lived? I read it was near Kay's Kitchen.

~ svh
 
So, a man who's never shown any kind of history as a pedophile all of the sudden has thoughts that a boy is sexually attracted to him? This fails on so many levels. DR was around Middle School children for the better part of 30 years and there has never been rumors of any kind. I would know, I was a classmate of Jared's.

Imo DR is very strong physically and emotionally. Imo I bet jared's case stirred something up in him. I read somewhere that these type of cases stir up people who are fantasizing about this type of encounter. I will look for the info. DR may have done his work in other locations. It's been suggested it could of been when he was away for marathons. He went to college in Illinois. He is strong mentally. If you read his comments of how he stays focused during his marathon running you can decipher this. Dare I bring up Josh g... this may have been an encounter of his also.
 
So, a man who's never shown any kind of history as a pedophile all of the sudden has thoughts that a boy is sexually attracted to him? This fails on so many levels. DR was around Middle School children for the better part of 30 years and there has never been rumors of any kind. I would know, I was a classmate of Jared's.

I think parts of what you're saying could be right. He has "never shown" it, true. And being "sexually attracted to him" would definitely not be something you would know about ... no one would except his victim.

~ svh
 
As far as I know, Shay can maybe answer this better, Baker Street was there in 1989. I just did a quick close-up map and showed with a pink arrow that Baker Street went around "back of the Del-Win" (and it's parking lot) and hooked up again with 95th / 16th Ave. Baker Street is only north of where the Del-Win was, not DIRECTLY behind it, but it could still have been considered "behind" the Del-Win, because there were no other houses back there then.

If Kevin and his gf came east on Minnesota Street, passed the Tom Thumb and followed it around, that turns into Baker Street and curves back to 95th/16th. If however, Kevin says he turned right on 95th and headed straight out south, then he would not have gone past the Del-Win. (Unless he turned left on Baker and made a U-turn and came back out.) JMO, Shay can possibly verify.

BakerStreet.jpg
 
Shergal, I really like his map you once posted. I know it shows the area "built up" since 1989' but I still find it helpful

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10046963&postcount=720


Caoutchouc, going back to Shay's comment, if this K+K story were kind of like the story of Alice in Wonderland; if it were an LE ruse, what might be some strategies behind it? The problem I see with it is that the result was to direct attention to a local on foot and away from a car. It seems like they'd be pushing the limits of common sense and misconduct to direct all this attention deliberately to DR if they knew it was someone in a car, yes?

If the locals are confused about it, something's up, imo. In a small town it should have been quickly deduced who it was and that should have propagated across the town.

~ svh
 
Staying focused leads to sexual predation? Lance Armstrong and Michael Jordan must be pedophiles.

We need to be careful when attributing blanket statements. Just because a guy has a immaculate wood pile and is focused when he runs it doesn't mean he's capable of being a sexual predator.

Imo DR is very strong physically and emotionally. Imo I bet jared's case stirred something up in him. I read somewhere that these type of cases stir up people who are fantasizing about this type of encounter. I will look for the info. DR may have done his work in other locations. It's been suggested it could of been when he was away for marathons. He went to college in Illinois. He is strong mentally. If you read his comments of how he stays focused during his marathon running you can decipher this. Dare I bring up Josh g... this may have been an encounter of his also.
 
As far as I know, Shay can maybe answer this better, Baker Street was there in 1989. I just did a quick close-up map and showed with a pink arrow that Baker Street went around "back of the Del-Win" (and it's parking lot) and hooked up again with 95th / 16th Ave. Baker Street is only north of where the Del-Win was, not DIRECTLY behind it, but it could still have been considered "behind" the Del-Win, because there were no other houses back there then.

If Kevin and his gf came east on Minnesota Street, passed the Tom Thumb and followed it around, that turns into Baker Street and curves back to 95th/16th. If however, Kevin says he turned right on 95th and headed straight out south, then he would not have gone past the Del-Win. (Unless he turned left on Baker and made a U-turn and came back out.) JMO, Shay can possibly verify.

BakerStreet.jpg

Is this map from 1989?
 
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