Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

[kittychi]

OT, but CONGRATULATIONS, GERMANY! What a game!

:congrats:

.

 

[Giles]

Here is a link to an excellent article on Lisa's Juror 13 blog:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/oscar-trial-has-the-states-case-been-proven/

 

[foxbluff]

I don't think that specific question was ever answered... as for Frank, maybe he had trouble keeping all the blondes in OP's life straight and therefore decided silence was his best option? If you go back to some of the earlier posts here shortly after the murder, there's some interesting tidbits that having come late to this I totally missed. ie. This Erin Stear, anything ever come of that?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ral-Discussion-Thread-4&p=9765904#post9765904

http://fabwags.com/erin-stear-the-blade-runner-oscar-pistorius-affair/

Can anyone interpret this one?
http://www.tvpiu.it/archives/6589

BBM - Thanks, Val !! I know I've never seen this... I was late coming to the show, too.

I have always assumed he was having affairs while dating Reeva as he cheated on ST, at least twice, and imo he actually loved ST. Also, imo, he was just using RS as a convenience while "testing the waters with other women" until the time came when he found one that he considered "more suitable" for a long-term relationship. (Not saying that Erin fit the bill.)

Seeing the (1) comment in the fabwags link you provided has possibly confirmed a theory I've had for sometime now. OP and the boys took a road trip to Cape Town and caused OP to be running late for the event he and RS would be attending, I believe, on January 26. I had wondered what girl he took with him on the trip or if he was meeting up with one in Cape Town. I remember RV in that l-o-n-g message to OP on January 27th saying "you have picked on me incessantly since you got back from CT."

Now I'm reading that OP hooked up with Erin the end of January. Hmm...

 

[4MrsB]

Here is a link to an excellent article on Lisa's Juror 13 blog:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/oscar-trial-has-the-states-case-been-proven/

Thank you for the link & pointing out that newly posted article by Lisa/Juror13.

She lays out some essential points so clearly, along with Oscar's version and the clear contradictions & problematic issues that arise from that version. Love the point about Oscar's hands and lack of blood on essential items he had to touch.

A great read. Highly recommend!
P.S....thanks Juror13

 

[minor4th]

Interesting reading the whole psychological report with the psychometric tests

 

[4MrsB]

I can't say how misguided I think those tweets are, and I think it's the last thing Roux would have wanted him to do.

I find it so distasteful (much too mild a word actually) that OP would quote this gentleman (Viktor Frankl), an Auschwitz survivor, who lost his wife, brother, mother & father to the holocaust....as if OP relates his situation to what this man went through, experienced, and how this gentleman was able to survive it.

"I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may feel bliss...."

" ...when his only achievement may consist of enduring suffering in the right way - an honorable way - in such a position man can, through loving contemplation of the image he carries of his beloved, achieve fulfillment"

Am I reading too much into this quote posted on OP's twitter site? By quoting this piece is OP comparing the isolation, suffering & loss this man endured to the situation OP is now in? How arrogant.

Is OP forgetting he created this horrendous situation himself? Even if he believes his own story..he decided it was OK to shoot 4 bullets into a small toilet area where he knew a living person was inside and failed to even ask the question..."who's in there?"

 

[Greater Than]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/800...says-hes-brokenhearted-over-girlfriend-death/

The sad thing is he did have that ability, and he indeed was an inspiration to many. He proved that drive, determination, and dedication lead to success. For him, a career in world-class athletics. He trained intensely, and fought for (and won) his right to compete against able-bodied athletes.

That's the stuff heroes are made of.

He had the world rooting for him, cheering on the fastest man with no legs. And although he didn't win an Olympic medal, he won the hearts of many.

But then he allowed his ego become bigger than he was. He adopted a sense of entitlement and self-righteousness. He convinced himself that rules don't apply to him, and that he is above the law.

What a shame. What a let down. What an a-hole.

 

[Val1]

Interesting reading the whole psychological report with the psychometric tests

Are you referring to OP's very low score of empathy?

 

[Greater Than]

I'd always assumed that she was let in by the housekeeper (who turned out to be Frank of course. I was unsure for a while whether OP had both a housekeeper and a gardener as both terms had cropped up). I wouldn't have thought Reeva spent enough time there to warrant having her own key, especially with a live-in servant on the premises.

I remember reading that shortly after OP and Reeva stated dating, he went out of town for a competition and she stayed at his house for several weeks while he was gone. Surely she had her own key while she was staying there? Which, incidentally, also indicates she knew how to turn off the alarm, even though OP testified that he didn't know if she knew how to.

 

[foxbluff]

I can't say how misguided I think those tweets are, and I think it's the last thing Roux would have wanted him to do.

I couldn't agree more!

I can't imagine why OP wouldn't have realized he would be hit with "Thou shalt not kill."

So, did this misguided self-PR come up due to bar fight Saturday night?

O/T - @zwie - I should tease you for taking so long to rest up after your last wee-hours-of-morning Court Reporting duties, but I won't.

 

[4MrsB]

The sad thing is he did have that ability, and he indeed was an inspiration to many. He proved that drive, determination, and dedication lead to success. For him, a career in world-class athletics. He trained intensely, and fought for (and won) his right to compete against able-bodied athletes.

That's the stuff heroes are made of.

He had the world rooting for him, cheering on the fastest man with no legs. And although he didn't win an Olympic medal, he won the hearts of many.

But then he allowed his ego become bigger than he was. He adopted a sense of entitlement and self-righteousness. He convinced himself that rules don't apply to him, and that he is above the law.

What a shame. What a let down. What an a-hole.

I'm not sure he actually "won the right to compete against able-bodied athletes". . . . I might be in err, but I thought I read much about Oscar NOT actually having the best times to compete in the Olympics. There were one or two other athletes with better times and should have held the spot Oscar took. But a lot of political, behind the scenes discussions persuaded the appropriate people, that Oscar needed to be allowed a spot. Lots of PR and support for him to race, but other hard working athletes were slighted.

As I said, I might be wrong, but that was my understanding. OP should not have actually been given the spot. Others had better times.

I know that wasn't your main point, and I agree to what you're saying...very sad situation. I do think he had quite a few people "duped" for a long time....quite a big head, the "golden boy" of S.A.

I also agree with your last statement..."what an a-hole".

 

[Val1]

I remember reading that shortly after OP and Reeva stated dating, he went out of town for a competition and she stayed at his house for several weeks while he was gone. Surely she had her own key while she was staying there? Which, incidentally, also indicates she knew how to turn off the alarm, even though OP testified that he didn't know if she knew how to.

Iirc, Nel had questioned Stander about that and had elicited the information that RS had returned the keys to him.

 

[james83]

Oh dear bad publicity coming better post some bible quotes before the news comes out, some's up what a fake stage managed fraud this guy is.

 

[Greater Than]

RSBM

The lightbulb in the toilet the defence claimed wasn't working. If his balance was so bad at night why wasn't it a priority to fix and didn't the defence say they'd prove it wasn't working?

The prosecution didn't challenge it, so there was no need to prove it.
I doubt if OP would bother to close the toilet door if he used the loo at night, there would be enough light from the bathroom. So probably not a priority.

All of which supports the PT's case. Why would Reeva lock herself in a dark toilet unless she was seeking refuge from OP? In addition to that, both Dr. and Mrs. Stipp saw a light on through the toilet window after the bangs (bat), followed by a woman screaming, and a few minutes after that, gunshots. With the toilet light broken, the only way the Stipps could have seen light through that window is if OP had used the bat first, breaking out a piece of the door, which allowed light from the bathroom to dimly illuminate the toilet. That broken out part of the door is also what allowed the neighbors to clearly hear Reeva screaming, since the bathroom window was open.

If the LED lights from the stereo were a constant irritation to his sleep, then why not move it permanently?

To be fair, that bedroom isn't all that big, so there probably weren't many options. But I don't buy the light being a problem. OP has said in interviews that he has trouble sleeping generally. If the light was a big deal, he would have contrived some way of covering it permanently - or just switch it off at the socket.

I don't buy the light being a problem for him either. The second fan was added to his version to allow enough time for Reeva to get out of bed and head to the bathroom without him noticing. The LED light was added because in order for him to hear the bathroom window slide open, he needed to be away from the noisy fans that prevented him from hearing her get out of bed. He couldn't just get back in bed because then he would've known she wasn't there, so he needed to add an event after bringing the fans in.

If Mr Roux said he was going to prove that OP screamed like a girl and never provided that proof, does Judge Masipa then have to assume the ear witnesses were all correct that they heard a woman screaming?

I sincerely hope so! I can't see why she wouldn't.

Agreed. The DT offered no evidence to support the claim that he screams like a woman, so I think milady will accept that the ear witnesses were accurate and that they heard Reeva screaming for her life before OP executed her.

MOO

 

[Zuri]

Here is a link to an excellent article on Lisa's Juror 13 blog:

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/oscar-trial-has-the-states-case-been-proven/

Thank you for posting this article. I never wanted to believe that OP could possibly do something this horrific. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, he knew Reeva was behind that door. After the ballistics experts testified, combined with his version of events, there was no doubt.

What bothers me greatly is, in all probability, that he did not immediately go to Reeva's aid. In his version, he said he didn't know it was she. Assuming that is a fact for just a minute, why did it take so long for him to get her out of there? The only reasonable explanation to my mind was that he had to make sure she was dead so there would be no contradiction to his version of events. In the moments after shooting her, he chose to think of himself and buy himself some time, while quickly figuring out his next moves. He chose to make a grand entrance witnessed by Carice and her father, carrying Reeva down the stairs.

IMOO. I hope Judge Masipa can look through the myriad of details and come to the conclusion that OP shot with intent to do harm and should therefore be convicted for the murder of Reeva. This trial is about HER, not OP. JMV

 

[Greater Than]

I'm not sure he actually "won the right to compete against able-bodied athletes". . . . I might be in err, but I thought I read much about Oscar NOT actually having the best times to compete in the Olympics. There were one or two other athletes with better times and should have held the spot Oscar took. But a lot of political, behind the scenes discussions persuaded the appropriate people, that Oscar needed to be allowed a spot. Lots of PR and support for him to race, but other hard working athletes were slighted.

As I said, I might be wrong, but that was my understanding. OP should not have actually been given the spot. Others had better times.

I know that wasn't your main point, and I agree to what you're saying...very sad situation. I do think he had quite a few people "duped" for a long time....quite a big head, the "golden boy" of S.A.

I also agree with your last statement..."what an a-hole".

When I said he fought for and won the right to compete against able-bodied athletes, I was referring to when he was selected to represent SA at the World Athletics Championship in 2011 after years of fighting against the claims that his blades gave him an unfair advantage. He had finally won that fight, and he made history. As for competing in the Olympics, his time qualified him. I'm not doubting that there were others with faster times than his, that may be true, but athletes are selected to be on a country's Olympic team from the pool that qualified. He qualified, and he was selected to be on team SA. He has clearly fallen from grace since then, but don't take away his accomplishments.

 

[Greater Than]

Thank you for posting this article. I never wanted to believe that OP could possibly do something this horrific. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, he knew Reeva was behind that door. After the ballistics experts testified, combined with his version of events, there was no doubt.

What bothers me greatly is, in all probability, that he did not immediately go to Reeva's aid. In his version, he said he didn't know it was she. Assuming that is a fact for just a minute, why did it take so long for him to get her out of there? The only reasonable explanation to my mind was that he had to make sure she was dead so there would be no contradiction to his version of events. In the moments after shooting her, he chose to think of himself and buy himself some time, while quickly figuring out his next moves. He chose to make a grand entrance witnessed by Carice and her father, carrying Reeva down the stairs.

IMOO. I hope Judge Masipa can look through the myriad of details and come to the conclusion that OP shot with intent to do harm and should therefore be convicted for the murder of Reeva. This trial is about HER, not OP. JMV

BIB - That's a problem for him. He claims the first bangs heard at 2:58 were gunshots and the second bangs heard at 3:13 were the bat. He had to account for what he did from 2:58 to 3:13, so he came up with that whole bit about running back to the bedroom, feeling all over the bed for her, feeling behind the curtains for her, opening the sliding glass door, and shouting for help, before putting his legs on and running back to the bathroom to break the door down at 3:13. Problem is, it wouldn't take 15 minutes to do all that. Not even close.

But in reality, at 2:58 he was banging on the door with the bat, breaking part of the door off. She's screaming and he's yelling at her. He goes and gets his gun, and Burger hears the bloodcurdling scream right before he shoots four times at 3:13. He goes and puts on his legs, hits the door one more time with the bat, and pries the rest of the door panels off.

The DT needed to make the gunshots at 2:58 because a dead woman can't scream. What they overlooked when they created that version is that OP said Reeva was still breathing. If he shot her at 2:58, she absolutely wasn't breathing when he got to her at 3:18.

MOO

 

[Val1]

When I said he fought for and won the right to compete against able-bodied athletes, I was referring to when he was selected to represent SA at the World Athletics Championship in 2011 after years of fighting against the claims that his blades gave him an unfair advantage. He had finally won that fight, and he made history. As for competing in the Olympics, his time qualified him. I'm not doubting that there were others with faster times than his, that may be true, but athletes are selected to be on a country's Olympic team from the pool that qualified. He qualified, and he was selected to be on team SA. He has clearly fallen from grace since then, but don't take away his accomplishments.

That's not what the world heard... not that he wasn't a great athlete given his limitations but once again, money and power spoke. Hopefully they will be silenced with the gavel of justice this time.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/track/story/2012-07-04/oscar-pistorius-amputee-olympic-team/56010902/1

In a surprise last-minute decision, South Africa's Olympic committee and national track federation said the double amputee can run in his individual event as well as the relay even though he did not meet the country's qualifying criteria in the 400.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I remember reading that shortly after OP and Reeva stated dating, he went out of town for a competition and she stayed at his house for several weeks while he was gone. Surely she had her own key while she was staying there? Which, incidentally, also indicates she knew how to turn off the alarm, even though OP testified that he didn't know if she knew how to.

I understood that she volunteered to take care of his dogs. Why wouldn't Frank be taking care of the dogs?

 

[kittychi]

That's not what the world heard... not that he wasn't a great athlete given his limitations but once again, money and power spoke. Hopefully they will be silenced with the gavel of justice this time.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/track/story/2012-07-04/oscar-pistorius-amputee-olympic-team/56010902/1

"In a surprise last-minute decision, South Africa's Olympic committee and national track federation said the double amputee can run in his individual event as well as the relay even though he did not meet the country's qualifying criteria in the 400."


That has Uncle Arnold's money written all over it.