Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

[kittychi]

After very expensive legal proceedings involving attorneys and various experts, OP managed to get the ruling overturned and was allowed to compete against able-bodied athletes.

What was the outcome ?

OP chose to participate only in the 400-meter event against able-bodied athlete :

- In 2008 Beijing, OP failed to achieve the minimum qualifying time and did not even participate.

- In 2012 London, OP came in 23rd out of 24 athletes… the last place athlete injured himself during the race and could not even finish it… in all fairness, OP was dead last.

The reality is that OP's time in the 400-meter event were NEVER good enough to compete against able-bodied athletes… OP knew it, OP's coach knew it, OP's manager knew it, everybody knew it…

Therefore, OP's legal proceedings were utterly pointless to begin with… the sole purpose was the marketing of the OP brand : to be the first disabled athlete to compete in the Olympics.

I see a parallel with the criminal Trial… OP knows the truth : he knowingly shot and killed Reeva during a row… but OP believes that with cunning, relentless persistence, money, top attorneys and various experts, he will manage to overcome the charges against him.

Oscar Pistorius is truly a pathetic excuse of a man.

IMO you have profoundly nailed it.

 

[Greater Than]

After very expensive legal proceedings involving attorneys and various experts, OP managed to get the ruling overturned and was allowed to compete against able-bodied athletes.

What was the outcome ?

OP chose to participate only in the 400-meter event against able-bodied athlete :

- In 2008 Beijing, OP failed to achieve the minimum qualifying time and did not even participate.

- In 2012 London, OP came in 23rd out of 24 athletes… the last place athlete injured himself during the race and could not even finish it… in all fairness, OP was dead last.

The reality is that OP's time in the 400-meter event were NEVER good enough to compete against able-bodied athletes… OP knew it, OP's coach knew it, OP's manager knew it, everybody knew it…

Therefore, OP's legal proceedings were utterly pointless to begin with… the sole purpose was the marketing of the OP brand : to be the first disabled athlete to compete in the Olympics.

I see a parallel with the criminal Trial… OP knows the truth : he knowingly shot and killed Reeva during a row… but OP believes that with cunning, relentless persistence, money, top attorneys and various experts, he will manage to overcome the charges against him.

Oscar Pistorius is truly a pathetic excuse of a man.

BIB1 - OP qualified to compete against able-bodied athletes at the World Athletics Championships in 2011. That's when history was made regarding disabled competing against able-bodied, not the Olympics. Further, he DID genuinely qualify for the 4x400 Olympics relay race, but not the individual 400 race.

BIB2 - That is absolutely incorrect. The legal proceedings arguing that his blades did not give him an unfair advantage was so that he could compete against able-bodied athletes in ANY competition, not just the Olympics. Just as he did in 2011 at the World Athletics Championships, which by the way, is where more records are broken than at the Olympics. The best of the best compete in that competition.

I'm done with this debate. The point of my original post was how sad it is that he was once such an inspiration, breaking down barriers for those with disabilities, but that he let his fame go to his head and thinks he can literally get away with murder.

Moving on...

 

[jay-jay]

The point of my original post was how sad it is that he was once such an inspiration, breaking down barriers for those with disabilities, but that he let his fame go to his head and thinks he can literally get away with murder.

~rsbm~

.. totally agree with you ..

 

[AJ_DS]

The Silverwoods intruder, a fictional story by Oscar Pistorius

1. The daring and proficient intruder manages to gain entry to the highly protected estate.

2. The intruder roams aimlessly in the estate to find the ideal house whilst, not only avoiding all security patrols but also without alerting any dogs.

3. By pure chance, the intruder stumbles on a stack of ladders and decides to abandon his original entry plans for a much better one : enter a house from a second story window.

4. Although it is 3AM and the estate is dead quiet, the intruder fumbles with noisy aluminum ladders and takes one of them around the corner of OP's house to a random window.

5. Although OP owns 2 dogs, a large menacing one and a small nervous one, they remain completely oblivious and silent to the intruder's noisy presence.

6. Although the window is closed and could very possibly be locked, the intruder inexplicably selects it as his entry point.

7. The intruder is lucky : the window is not locked…. had it been locked, one can imagine the intruder going back down the ladder and moving it to another window… repeating this process until an unlocked window was found.

8. Instead of carefully opening the window to preserve the element of surprise, the intruder decides to slam it open.

9. The intruder stealthily shimmies into the pitch dark bathroom without making any noise... avoiding any contact with the wooden blinds which are halfway down and the bathroom scale which is immediately below the window.

10. Instead of exiting the bathroom to pursue his intended goal, the intruder lingers in the bathroom for no apparent reason.

11. Instead of fleeing back out the window and down the ladder when the element of surprise was lost and his presence was revealed by OP's screams, the intruder decides to hide in the toilet cubicle thus rendering any attempt at escape impossible.

12. Although his intention is to hide his presence, the intruder slams the toilet door shut thus, not only confirming his presence but also advertising his location.

13. For some inexplicable reason, the intruder decides to lock the toilet door thus trapping himself.

14. Trapped in toilet and confronted by OP who is 3 meters away screaming at him, the intruder does not attempt to plead with OP but remains completely silent.

 

[Interested Bystander]

The Silverwoods intruder, a fictional story by Oscar Pistorius

1. The daring and proficient intruder manages to gain entry to the highly protected estate.

2. The intruder roams aimlessly in the estate to find the ideal house whilst, not only avoiding all security patrols but also without alerting any dogs.

3. By pure chance, the intruder stumbles on a stack of ladders and decides to abandon his original entry plans for a much better one : enter a house from a second story window.

4. Although it is 3AM and the estate is dead quiet, the intruder fumbles with noisy aluminum ladders and takes one of them around the corner of OP's house to a random window.

5. Although OP owns 2 dogs, a large menacing one and a small nervous one, they remain completely oblivious and silent to the intruder's noisy presence.

6. Although the window is closed and could very possibly be locked, the intruder inexplicably selects it as his entry point.

7. The intruder is lucky : the window is not locked…. had it been locked, one can imagine the intruder going back down the ladder and moving it to another window… repeating this process until an unlocked window was found.

8. Instead of carefully opening the window to preserve the element of surprise, the intruder decides to slam it open.

9. The intruder stealthily shimmies into the pitch dark bathroom without making any noise... avoiding any contact with the wooden blinds which are halfway down and the bathroom scale which is immediately below the window.

10. Instead of exiting the bathroom to pursue his intended goal, the intruder lingers in the bathroom for no apparent reason.

11. Instead of fleeing back out the window and down the ladder when the element of surprise was lost and his presence was revealed by OP's screams, the intruder decides to hide in the toilet cubicle thus rendering any attempt at escape impossible.

12. Although his intention is to hide his presence, the intruder slams the toilet door shut thus, not only confirming his presence but also advertising his location.

13. For some inexplicable reason, the intruder decides to lock the toilet door thus trapping himself.

14. Trapped in toilet and confronted by OP who is 3 meters away screaming at him, the intruder does not attempt to plead with OP but remains completely silent.

Love it - LOL. I was surprised so little was made of this part of his story during the trial.

 

[Ncl1968]

I'm guessing this doesn't have a happy ending....

 

[AJ_DS]

BIB1 - OP qualified to compete against able-bodied athletes at the World Athletics Championships in 2011. That's when history was made regarding disabled competing against able-bodied, not the Olympics. Further, he DID genuinely qualify for the 4x400 Olympics relay race, but not the individual 400 race.

BIB2 - That is absolutely incorrect. The legal proceedings arguing that his blades did not give him an unfair advantage was so that he could compete against able-bodied athletes in ANY competition, not just the Olympics. Just as he did in 2011 at the World Athletics Championships, which by the way, is where more records are broken than at the Olympics. The best of the best compete in that competition.

I'm done with this debate. The point of my original post was how sad it is that he was once such an inspiration, breaking down barriers for those with disabilities, but that he let his fame go to his head and thinks he can literally get away with murder.

Moving on...

BiB 1… Incorrect

OP's first attempt at competing against able-bodied athletes was in 2008 Beijing… OP did not manage to achieve the minimum required qualifying time and therefore was not allowed to participate.

At the 2011 South Korea World Championships in Athletics, OP competed in the 400-meter event against able-bodied athletes… OP finished in 22nd place out of 24 athletes in the semi-finals… OP did not run in the finals.

I maintain that OP's times in the 400-meter event were NEVER good enough to compete against able-bodied athletes… the results obtained by OP are proof of my contentions.

WHY have other disabled athletes, with better times than OP, not participated in able-bodied competitions ?????

BiB 2… No it is NOT, respectfully

I have NEVER stated or even implied that the legal proceedings were specifically and solely intended to allow OP to compete in the Olympics.

Are you implying that some of "the best of the best" choose not to compete in the Olympics because it is not challenging enough ?

Are you implying that the Olympics are somehow less prestigious to an athlete's career than the World Championships ?

BiB 3… Yes and No

OP had a distinct advantage over other disabled athletes : OP was the first to use carbon fiber blades… this technological advantage was developed and acquired by OP's family wealth… without those financial means, OP would not have had the carbon blades and I suspect OP would not have made any impact in the world of sports.

Once that advantage was lost because other athletes started using the same technology… OP's 'legendary' speed was unmasked for what it was : the result of an unfair advantage.

In London, after OP was beaten in the 200-meter event, he accused the Brazilian of having an unfair advantage because the Brazilian's blades were longer than his… talk about irony !!!

 

[jay-jay]

Love it - LOL. I was surprised so little was made of this part of his story during the trial.

Yes, brilliant post!

.. and the main point is that all of that is not from the perspective of the intruder, it is from the perspective of OP himself, who .. by taking all of those things into account .. would not have had any reason whatsoever to have suspected an intruder had just come in through the bathroom window, none whatsoever, especially when the more likely person to have been making the noise in the bathroom would've been the person he had only minutes before (in his version) been sharing his bed. That's why the whole thing is complete BS, and isn't at all what happened that night.

 

[IPITY]

The Silverwoods intruder, a fictional story by Oscar Pistorius

1. The daring and proficient intruder manages to gain entry to the highly protected estate.

2. The intruder roams aimlessly in the estate to find the ideal house whilst, not only avoiding all security patrols but also without alerting any dogs.

3. By pure chance, the intruder stumbles on a stack of ladders and decides to abandon his original entry plans for a much better one : enter a house from a second story window.

4. Although it is 3AM and the estate is dead quiet, the intruder fumbles with noisy aluminum ladders and takes one of them around the corner of OP's house to a random window.

5. Although OP owns 2 dogs, a large menacing one and a small nervous one, they remain completely oblivious and silent to the intruder's noisy presence.

6. Although the window is closed and could very possibly be locked, the intruder inexplicably selects it as his entry point.

7. The intruder is lucky : the window is not locked…. had it been locked, one can imagine the intruder going back down the ladder and moving it to another window… repeating this process until an unlocked window was found.

8. Instead of carefully opening the window to preserve the element of surprise, the intruder decides to slam it open.

9. The intruder stealthily shimmies into the pitch dark bathroom without making any noise... avoiding any contact with the wooden blinds which are halfway down and the bathroom scale which is immediately below the window.

10. Instead of exiting the bathroom to pursue his intended goal, the intruder lingers in the bathroom for no apparent reason.

11. Instead of fleeing back out the window and down the ladder when the element of surprise was lost and his presence was revealed by OP's screams, the intruder decides to hide in the toilet cubicle thus rendering any attempt at escape impossible.

12. Although his intention is to hide his presence, the intruder slams the toilet door shut thus, not only confirming his presence but also advertising his location.

13. For some inexplicable reason, the intruder decides to lock the toilet door thus trapping himself.

14. Trapped in toilet and confronted by OP who is 3 meters away screaming at him, the intruder does not attempt to plead with OP but remains completely silent.

Point 14 need amending because he decides to read a magazine while he's in there and inadvertently moves the magazine rack!

 

[luvmygarden]

The Silverwoods intruder, a fictional story by Oscar Pistorius

1. The daring and proficient intruder manages to gain entry to the highly protected estate.

2. The intruder roams aimlessly in the estate to find the ideal house whilst, not only avoiding all security patrols but also without alerting any dogs.

3. By pure chance, the intruder stumbles on a stack of ladders and decides to abandon his original entry plans for a much better one : enter a house from a second story window.

4. Although it is 3AM and the estate is dead quiet, the intruder fumbles with noisy aluminum ladders and takes one of them around the corner of OP's house to a random window.

5. Although OP owns 2 dogs, a large menacing one and a small nervous one, they remain completely oblivious and silent to the intruder's noisy presence.

6. Although the window is closed and could very possibly be locked, the intruder inexplicably selects it as his entry point.

7. The intruder is lucky : the window is not locked…. had it been locked, one can imagine the intruder going back down the ladder and moving it to another window… repeating this process until an unlocked window was found.

8. Instead of carefully opening the window to preserve the element of surprise, the intruder decides to slam it open.

9. The intruder stealthily shimmies into the pitch dark bathroom without making any noise... avoiding any contact with the wooden blinds which are halfway down and the bathroom scale which is immediately below the window.

10. Instead of exiting the bathroom to pursue his intended goal, the intruder lingers in the bathroom for no apparent reason.

11. Instead of fleeing back out the window and down the ladder when the element of surprise was lost and his presence was revealed by OP's screams, the intruder decides to hide in the toilet cubicle thus rendering any attempt at escape impossible.

12. Although his intention is to hide his presence, the intruder slams the toilet door shut thus, not only confirming his presence but also advertising his location.

13. For some inexplicable reason, the intruder decides to lock the toilet door thus trapping himself.

14. Trapped in toilet and confronted by OP who is 3 meters away screaming at him, the intruder does not attempt to plead with OP but remains completely silent.

What a great explanation! It needs repeating over and over again. "Memo to My Lady and Assessors" Please read.

 

[AJ_DS]

Point 14 need amending because he decides to read a magazine while he's in there and inadvertently moves the magazine rack!

LOL… Some people have nervous bladders or colons… maybe the intruder suddenly needed to go 'number 2' and decided to read a magazine in the pitch dark toilet cubicle whilst OP was screaming at him !!!

 

[soozieqtips]

I've seen more from him than I've seen from the usual suspects that post on these boards.

Interesting that you compare a common murderer to innocent (non-murdering) posters on WS, and seem to favour the common murderer. Oh well, takes all sorts.

 

[Cherwell]

BBM

Indeed. So if some posters are aloof or distant in their postings, mistrustful of certain testimonies or evidence, and impatient for a verdict (read conviction) - it does NOT necessarily stand to reason that those posters are in any way lacking 'normal' caring or empathy. Good to note.

JMO

Well played, sir.

 

[AJ_DS]

The fact OP states he was very much in love with Reeva in his criminal Trial where he stands accused of murdering her, is no surprise to me… it's to be expected and not necessarily believed… one can't even assume OP's definition of being in love is objectively universal.

The fact OP introduced Reeva as his fiancé to his neighbor is also not very surprising to me… since they were most definitely not engaged to be married, that statement made to an inconsequential acquaintance was a bit of flirtatious banter for Reeva's benefit… I have done the same in the past… even introduced a girlfriend as the future mother of my children… she did not take it literally but was delightfully embarrassed and flattered by it.

 

[wb180]

I've seen more from him than I've seen from the usual suspects that post on these boards.

Nope you are right. The usual suspects on these boards don't have much empathy because they actually use their brains on the evidence provided rather than just "feel" OP's innocence.

I hope Roux uses this line of argument in closing. "Please have empathy for OP. Just look at him with those disabled kids reading the bible!" Lol

 

[eimajjjj]

I don't think the implausibility of an intruder coming in through the window and locking themselves into bathroom will be looked at in any serious way by Masipa in terms of handing out her judgement. When you get a fright or hear something that you shouldn't in your house, the last thing you do is think about the possibilities or impossibilities of the sound being there. Of course in retrospect, closed windows, noisy ladders, dogs and so on make it nonsensical but if I heard a noise in one of my rooms, I wouldn't process all of that.

However, I certainly wouldn't go and blow the 'noise' away with a 9mm pistol.

OP's guilt will I think be elicited from his version contradictions, credibility (or lack of), witness statements, impossible timeline and improbable events. The concrete stuff.

 

[AJ_DS]

I don't think the implausibility of an intruder coming in through the window and locking themselves into bathroom will be looked at in any serious way by Masipa in terms of handing out her judgement. When you get a fright or hear something that you shouldn't in your house, the last thing you do is think about the possibilities or impossibilities of the sound being there. Of course in retrospect, closed windows, noisy ladders, dogs and so on make it nonsensical but if I heard a noise in one of my rooms, I wouldn't process all of that.

However, I certainly wouldn't go and blow the 'noise' away with a 9mm pistol.

OP's guilt will I think be elicited from his version contradictions, credibility (or lack of), witness statements, impossible timeline and improbable events. The concrete stuff.

I agree with your analysis.

However, OP stated :

- that the ladders bothered him because they could facilitate a home invasion
- that he had previously asked the workmen to store them in the garage for that specific reason
- that it was his habit to make sure they were not left outside for that specific reason
- that the workmen unfortunately failed to store them in the garage on 13 February
- that he unfortunately failed to check on the ladders on 13 February

… OP said that the ladders were a factor that lead him to assume intruders were breaking in when he heard the bathroom window open.

The ladders are an integral part of OP's Putative Private Defence case.

Unless one believes in floating/flying intruders, hearing the second story bathroom window open does not lead one to assume intruders are breaking in… especially if there is a much more plausible and probable alternative readily available to explain a window opening in the en suite master bathroom, i.e. Reeva

 

[eimajjjj]

I agree with your analysis.

However, OP stated :

- that the ladders bothered him because they could facilitate a home invasion
- that he had previously asked the workmen to store them in the garage for that specific reason
- that it was his habit to make sure they were not left outside for that specific reason
- that the workmen unfortunately failed to store them in the garage on 13 February
- that he unfortunately failed to check on the ladders on 13 February

… OP said that the ladders were a factor that lead him to assume intruders were breaking in when he heard the bathroom window open.

The ladders are an integral part of OP's Putative Private Defence case.

Unless one believes in floating/flying intruders, hearing the second story bathroom window open does not lead one to assume intruders are breaking in… especially if there is a much more plausible and probable alternative readily available to explain a window opening in the en suite master bathroom, i.e. Reeva

Well I think most of us agree there was no 'noise' from intruder, nor even sure that Reeva opened the window in the first place! However, yes, I agree, he shouldn't have written or submitted anything about ladders or for that matter, anything at all about him processing why an intruder would be in there in the first place. It would actually be more credible to leave out your processing of the noise/reasoning behind an intruder coming as I don't think that's far-fetched at all - to be scared of a noise in another room without processing its plausibility. His reaction to said 'noise' of course, is beyond far-fetched and would surely end in culpable homicide at the very least.

 

[Greater Than]

I don't think the implausibility of an intruder coming in through the window and locking themselves into bathroom will be looked at in any serious way by Masipa in terms of handing out her judgement. When you get a fright or hear something that you shouldn't in your house, the last thing you do is think about the possibilities or impossibilities of the sound being there. Of course in retrospect, closed windows, noisy ladders, dogs and so on make it nonsensical but if I heard a noise in one of my rooms, I wouldn't process all of that.

However, I certainly wouldn't go and blow the 'noise' away with a 9mm pistol.

OP's guilt will I think be elicited from his version contradictions, credibility (or lack of), witness statements, impossible timeline and improbable events. The concrete stuff.

I absolutely think Masipa will consider the implausibility of an intruder entering through a second story window. That's the crux of this case - that OP assumed the person in the toilet was an intruder rather than his awake girlfriend. His defense relies on this assumption being reasonably possible (he knew ladders were left outside, wasn't sure if the motion detector beams were working, bathroom window open). The prosecution pointing out the reasons that assumption was based on implausible factors points to him knowing who was behind that door.

Even if she ignores the implausibility of an intruder entering the way OP suspected they did, he would still be put to the reasonable man test for CH (which does not take disability into account, but does take specialized knowledge into account, i.e. gun owner). So the question would be, would the reasonable gun owner in the same circumstances have assumed it was an intruder and responded to the perceived threat of said assumed intruder the same way OP did - by unloading four rounds of hollow point bullets through a closed door.

 

[Val1]

I absolutely think Masipa will consider the implausibility of an intruder entering through a second story window. That's the crux of this case - that OP assumed the person in the toilet was an intruder rather than his awake girlfriend. His defense relies on this assumption being reasonably possible (he knew ladders were left outside, wasn't sure if the motion detector beams were working, bathroom window open). The prosecution pointing out the reasons that assumption was based on implausible factors points to him knowing who was behind that door.

Even if she ignores the implausibility of an intruder entering the way OP suspected they did, he would still be put to the reasonable man test for CH (which does not take disability into account, but does take specialized knowledge into account, i.e. gun owner). So the question would be, would the reasonable gun owner in the same circumstances have assumed it was an intruder and responded to the perceived threat of said assumed intruder the same way OP did - by unloading four rounds of hollow point bullets through a closed door.

Yes, and would a reasonable person, disabled or not, having such a fear of intruders and having claimed he was aware of workmen previously having left their ladders out, not have made sure every single night that they had been put away? In fact, he must have checked that day at some point because he then claimed they were there under his windows ... but did not call his "buddy" who had heard(quotes in the media) what he thought were 3 thunderclaps at 3:08am Feb 14th, to either come and put them away or have one of his workers do so even though OP was home plenty early enough that evening to have reasonably done so. I still wonder why OP had thanked his "buddy" for "everything you are doing" after the murder...