Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, 1993-94 ** John Bittrolff ARRESTED **

[topratedsleuth]

topratedsleuth, you might find this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeway_Killer

People assumed the Freeway Killer was one person because that made sense. People assume that a strangling serial killer of prostitutes in Manorville probably killed strangled prostitutes at Gilgo because that makes sense. People were wrong about the Freeway Killer, we shall see about LISK.

 

[LikeAHunter]

People assumed the Freeway Killer was one person because that made sense. People assume that a strangling serial killer of prostitutes in Manorville probably killed strangled prostitutes at Gilgo because that makes sense. People were wrong about the Freeway Killer, we shall see about LISK.

Exactly! All we have is our theories and limited info from LE.

But this is a good discussion! When we respectfully challenge each other's assumptions and points of view, we're forced to really look at our own beliefs and theories.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Tangredi and McNamee, I do believe.

Rita Tangredi was found in East Patchogue. Colleen McNamee's remains were found in Shirley. Sandra Costilla's remains were found in North Sea. They are not Manorville victims, they are victims of a man who just happened to live in Manorville.

(Sorry to be such a stickler. Facts and details are a thing with me.)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

While it's tempting to lump all the victims together, and I think we all WANT one person to be responsible (and off the street), strangling and dismembering are two completely different MOs.

The only way I believe they could be related is if (and I've come to believe that this is a BIG IF), the LISK is responsible and changed his MO for the GB4 to throw off police. That was a theory I had a little while back, but after reading between the lines in Spota's press conference on JB, I came to believe that theory is highly unlikely.

ETA: The Occam's Razor theory is just too simple to be applied to the complicated psyches of serial killers, IMO.

And, in order to apply Occam's Razor you have to start with established facts.

 

[LikeAHunter]

He'll be back in court on July 29:

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcrim_attorney/Detail?which=case&docketNumber=B/rzxCbvlw06UAWmhMxdTw==&courtType=L&countyId=RGmOR4u7mFEnUqEBkD3k3Q==&docketId=tx1Y5JL0jV9im4GN8pjncw==&docketDseq=wJ2/4du1NximNDMJ8ADcTA==&defendantName=Bittrolff,+John+M&county=SUFFOLK&court=Suffolk+First+District+Court&recordType=C&recordNum=R1nrDhc2al3W7f290kctfg==

He's charged with 1 count "Murder: Intention" according to the link.

Marie-Chantal, thank you for linking to this database! I signed up for an account to track this case. What a great tool!

Also, FWIW, it looks to me like the grand jury indicted him on 2 counts of murder.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

What about shirt or pants?

That would certainly stand out, imo. But I just now thought of something Spota said (or rather didn't say) in the presser. He said the victims were missing a specific "wardrobe" item. Why use that word in particular? One would think that if the victims were missing a bra, a shirt, a coat, etc. that Spota would have used the word "clothes" or "clothing". How we would describe shoes in general terms? We surely don't define them as clothes or clothing. But they certainly are part of a wardrobe.

 

[topratedsleuth]

And, in order to apply Occam's Razor you have to start with established facts.

Quite the contrary, Occam's razor merely states that the simplest explanation is the most plausible one; explanations are posited in the absence of "facts", which would clear a matter up and render theorizing moot. With LISK, sleuths have very, very few facts to work with, as per law enforcement design (and when LE does say something regarding this case, which usually consists of them yelling "not connected", I think it's probably a good idea to ignore them).

 

[topratedsleuth]

Yeah, like where is that all too important 1990 Mugshot which could jog someone's memory?

Well, they did put out a request for info about the 90's activities of Bittrolff and of the victims. But you're right - Spota made a point of mentioning that Bittrolff had aged considerably since 1993 - you'd think they'd get that photo around more.

 

[Just K]

There is no proof or evidence that JB didn't stalk and plan out his alleged murders on either Colleen or Rita. He may have been a previous customer/associate of either or both of them. He may have spent time with them on the day he killed them before killing them...just like what is suspected in AC4 and GB4. There is no proof that whoever JT left with was not a regular of sorts and that she too spent time with her killer before he killed her, destroyed her body and disposed of the parts in his favored spots.

You cannot call any of them rage killings. And even if you could, with Rita and Colleen, the killer was much younger then.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Quite the contrary, Occam's razor merely states that the simplest explanation is the most plausible one; explanations are posited in the absence of "facts", which would clear a matter up and render theorizing moot. With LISK, sleuths have very, very few facts to work with, as per law enforcement design (and when LE does say something regarding this case, which usually consists of them yelling "not connected", I think it's probably a good idea to ignore them).

The simplest explanation THAT FITS THE FACTS.

(You're killing me this afternoon, Topper.)

 

[topratedsleuth]

The simplest explanation THAT FITS THE FACTS.

Well, one certainly does not need to twist, omit or invent any facts for John Bittrolff to be the top suspect as LISK. He is, and should be, and time will tell.

 

[cpaul]

That would certainly stand out, imo. But I just now thought of something Spota said (or rather didn't say) in the presser. He said the victims were missing a specific "wardrobe" item. Why use that word in particular? One would think that if the victims were missing a bra, a shirt, a coat, etc. that Spota would have used the word "clothes" or "clothing". How we would describe shoes in general terms? We surely don't define them as clothes or clothing. But they certainly are part of a wardrobe.

He said:
"significant piece of wardrobe" was missing from the crime scenes

What would you consider to not be a significant piece…

Edit: I see your point

Would a man consider a certain something a "wardrobe" item or use different language then a women?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

He said:
"significant piece of wardrobe" was missing from the crime scenes

What would you consider to not be a significant piece…

Edit: I see your point

Would a man consider a certain something a "wardrobe" item or use different language then a women?

I took the word "significant" to mean that it was significant to the case, not significant to someone's wardrobe. But anyway, my point was that he didn't say "clothing" or "clothes"...he said "wardrobe". I'm just wondering if he chose that particular word because the item in question couldn't be described as "clothes".

 

[cpaul]

Yes I understand your point. Good point.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well, one certainly does not need to twist, omit or invent any facts for John Bittrolff to be the top suspect as LISK. He is, and should be, and time will tell.

You're saying that Bittrolff is the top suspect in the LISK case. I assume you mean that he is YOUR top suspect. He certainly doesn't seem to be LE's top suspect at this time.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...1990s-murders-of-two-women-cops-say-1.8862420

There is no evidence tying Bittrolff to the Gilgo Beach slayings, one of the largest and most baffling homicide cases ever in Suffolk County.

"The evidence recovered from the bodies of Tangredi and McNamee, the manner in which their bodies were found and the crime scenes are unique to them, and very distinctly different from the Gilgo crime scenes," Spota said.


ETA: Truly, I'm not trying to bust your chops or anything. I just think it's important to differentiate between opinion and fact, that's all. Shutting up now.

 

[marie-chantal]

marie i'm surprised you never heard this it was well publicized and heavily focused on. It was one of the things the SK told Melissa's sister on the phone.

I remember the comments about "half-breed" and about sex, being a "*advertiser censored*" (his words, not mine), and killing her but not about the rotting. The comments about race and sex were so offensive to me that I must have either overlooked or forgotten about the rotting comment.

 

[marie-chantal]

Rita Tangredi was found in East Patchogue. Colleen McNamee's remains were found in Shirley. Sandra Costilla's remains were found in North Sea. They are not Manorville victims, they are victims of a man who just happened to live in Manorville.

(Sorry to be such a stickler. Facts and details are a thing with me.)

I agree with your point, MK. I've never heard anything about anybody other than Rita and Colleen being strangled. I've never seen anything that mentions how the other Manorville victims were murdered.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

I agree with your point, MK. I've never heard anything about anybody other than Rita and Colleen being strangled. I've never seen anything that mentions how the other Manorville victims were murdered.

here it is was looking for a bit but found:

"The man’s body, described as white or Hispanic, five-and-a-half to six feet tall, 130-150 pounds, with a surgical staple imbedded in his chin, was disrobed of all clothing save a pair of Gap boxer shorts. He was later revealed to have been a victim of strangulation"

SOURCE: http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news18.html

Most of the bodies connected with this case seem to be cause of death strangulation. aside from maybe the asian male who was blunt force trauma

 

[giagreen]

He said:
"significant piece of wardrobe" was missing from the crime scenes

What would you consider to not be a significant piece…

Edit: I see your point

Would a man consider a certain something a "wardrobe" item or use different language then a women?

Like a purse? I mean that would be something you could totally link. Clothing to me wouldn't be something you could link after all this time because if someone found it how would they know who it belonged to? A purse with maybe ID's and stuff is what I keep thinking.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

I still think shoe because alot of things seem to point toward a foot fetish. AC4 missing shoes was key and there was even a shoe fetish poi. There's the fire island legs w nail polish on one foot right and someone posted here the other day about another body that had nail polish. Also sometimes the SK cuts off one foot..like JD 2000...which could be to cover a tattoo or i've even thought of the possibility that maybe the sk keeps the foot as a trophy. TS suggested he disposed of limbs while bird watching or having a picnic on Jones Beach.