Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[deugirtni]

So... I *sound* like a man too??
Yes.. you just scuttle back into that black hole you came out of..

Well... I don't see any pictures, but there's no good way to say you sound like a man either...

... slinking back into the darkness...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

So... I *sound* like a man too??
Yes.. you just scuttle back into that black hole you came out of..

Yes sorry... your comedic timing was impeccable though. I could almost hear the 'doink' of the two fingered eye poke your post delivered.

 

[deugirtni]

You can hide in the darkness, but I still saw that you posted 'phallic'.. hahaha, so I was looking for a rolling on the floor laughing emoticon, but couldnt' find how to do that, and now you have edited your words

Well... um... you could possibly use the picture excuse... rather... lol... edit number 10 and I still can't get it right.

 

[Sillybilly]

I did not know there had been a publication ban put in place on this case? Link?

I don't remember. Maybe there wasn't ... I was jumping off Swedie's post.

ETA: It's pretty standard in Canadian cases that after the charges are laid, there is a PB up to and including the preliminary hearing, then it is lifted as the trial is taking place (reporters can report from the court room as the trial is happening, but can't report on anything said in the court room when the jury is not present).Typically the defence requests the PB on bail hearings and preliminary hearings so that evidence doesn't become public until trial.

from the Canadian Judicial Council:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ther_cjsm_en.pdf+&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca#23

Bail (show cause) hearings

Section 517 (1)

Rationale and Scope: Section 517(1) authorizes a sweeping ban on the contents of a hearing to

determine whether an accused person should be free from custody while awaiting trial. While a

judge can turn down a prosecutor’s request for a ban in these situations, she must impose one if

the accused requests it.

If granted, the ban covers the evidence and information presented and the arguments of the prosecutor

and defence lawyer. It even extends to the judge’s reasons for or against granting bail, since these

revolve around whether the accused will flee if released or must be kept in jail to protect witnesses

and other members of the public. Courts have ruled that the fact a hearing is held, whether bail is

granted or denied, and the amount of money posted or other conditions of the defendant’s release

can be published, without violating the ban.

When imposed:The ban can be imposed “before or at any time during” the hearing – a unique

provision, since other bans must be sought before proceedings begin.The ban can also be imposed

on hearings to review a judge’s order to grant or deny bail; applications to vary the terms of bail;

hearings into violations of bail conditions; and reviews of detention orders.



Page 24

Duration: Such a ban is temporary, remaining in force only until the accused is discharged (has all

charges dismissed after a preliminary hearing) or the trial has ended (with a guilty plea or a verdict at

trial). Once the need to protect the right to a fair trial evaporates, the media can report everything

said at the hearing.

Preliminary hearings / inquiries

Section 539 (1)

Rationale and Scope:Where serious criminal charges have been filed, a preliminary hearing

(also known as a preliminary inquiry) is held in provincial court to determine whether there is

enough evidence to justify sending the accused for trial. Since the purpose of a preliminary inquiry

is to determine whether the Crown has a prima facie case (rather than to also hear evidence the

defence may present to rebut the Crown’s case), the hearing often doesn’t provide a balanced picture

of the evidence.To prevent the airing of potentially distorted and prejudicial information, the judge

presiding at a preliminary hearing has the power to ban publication of “the evidence taken” at the

proceeding. Again, the order is mandatory if sought by the defendant but the judge can refuse a

prosecution request.

The ban specifies “evidence” – that is, the testimony of witnesses and any information contained in

documents tendered as exhibits. But it isn’t as sweeping as the restriction on reporting on bail hearings,

so the media can report procedural matters, legal arguments and other courtroom statements that

do not disclose evidence.

When sought:The order must be sought “prior to the commencement of the taking of evidence.”

Duration:The ban expires once an accused is discharged or the trial is ended. Media outlets

sometimes staff preliminary hearings in high-profile cases in the event the accused is discharged or

later pleads guilty. If the case proceeds to trial, much of the evidence heard at the preliminary hearing

will be repeated at trial, when it becomes publishable. A written transcript of the evidence, obtained

from the court file or from counsel, may contain newsworthy evidence that is publishable once the

ban expires at the end of the trial.

 

[otto]

Once again the industry is Alberta,, Calgary, Edmonton, Ded Reer, Kearl, Fort Mac, Lake Chipewan, Athabasca, Hinton, Rainbow Lake (oil spills make pretty rainbow colours) the white powder is as prevalent here as it is there and there and over there. Of course there are oil execs and accountants and technologists and ceos dabbling or going full steam ahead. It's absurd to think otherwise.

This thread is about the murders of three people in Calgary. One of the victims, and both parents of another victim, worked/work in the Calgary oil industry. The third victim's husband worked in the Calgary oil industry. The accused has a long criminal history, and is an unemployed loner. Quoting relevant posts:

What on earth does the degree of criminal drug activity/organized crime within the oil and gas industry in Alberta, booming metropolises or Fort McMurray have to do with the murder of a pair of grandparents and a 5 year old boy??

If it is not nasty speculation about the victims and/or their family, what is it?

IMHO

Okay - let's put the drug discussion, as it pertains to the victims, away for now. If something breaks in MSM, then it can be reconsidered.

And, as always, please remember to be respectful of each other. This is not a contest, it is an exploration.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[otto]

This one is less absurd IMO http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...drug-trade-alberta-solicitor-general-1.770061

I'm at a loss as to how this Sep 25, 2008 article relates to the case.

 

[Krystine]

Perhaps the lack of reporting is just a sign of the changing times, with the instant news, and the decline of MSM as the primary source of information. It's not happening now, so let me know when it does.

It probably says more about our birthdates than anything...

If you believe the buzz, the hard copy newspaper as we know it, and other mags and publications will not even exist in the near future.
We'll be getting everything from our tech devices...
One of my kids makes his living in print media and has had career plan B in place for a couple of years already.
I'm pretty sad to see this, but given that our attention spans are getting shorter, and we try to condense our conversations into four word text messages, it seems like the way of the future.
I don't think those of us with long ago birth dates are being catered to any more.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes agreed. And all the more reason, don't you think, to hype up whatever potential publicly-interesting stories they know they have coming? To stay in business, they're going to have to get advertisers on their websites, and to get people to choose 'their' websites to visit, as opposed to other media outlet websites, they're going to have to make it interesting. The world is sure changing, and kudos to those who can be flexible enough to keep up with the times and still make a living!

If you believe the buzz, the hard copy newspaper as we know it, and other mags and publications will not even exist in the near future.
We'll be getting everything from our tech devices...
One of my kids makes his living in print media and has had career plan B in place for a couple of years already.
I'm pretty sad to see this, but given that our attention spans are getting shorter, and we try to condense our conversations into four word text messages, it seems like the way of the future.
I don't think those of us with long ago birth dates are being catered to any more.

 

[deugirtni]

otto, it seems to me that you were asking for proof, a link, that drugs and unsavoury types exist in the O&G industry in Calgary, so I think people have been responding to your requests.

I'm at a loss as to how this Sep 25, 2008 article relates to the case.

 

[deugirtni]

With all due respect, it seems a little 'baiting', imho, to ask for links to be provided and then when links are provided as requested, to then repost an admonishment from mods.

This thread is about the murders of three people in Calgary. One of the victims, and both parents of another victim, worked/work in the Calgary oil industry. The third victim's husband worked in the Calgary oil industry. The accused has a long criminal history, and is an unemployed loner. Quoting relevant posts:

Quote Originally Posted by stan laurel View Post
Once again the industry is Alberta,, Calgary, Edmonton, Ded Reer, Kearl, Fort Mac, Lake Chipewan, Athabasca, Hinton, Rainbow Lake (oil spills make pretty rainbow colours) the white powder is as prevalent here as it is there and there and over there. Of course there are oil execs and accountants and technologists and ceos dabbling or going full steam ahead. It's absurd to think otherwise.

This thread is about the murders of three people in Calgary. One of the victims, and both parents of another victim, worked/work in the Calgary oil industry. The third victim's husband worked in the Calgary oil industry. The accused has a long criminal history, and is an unemployed loner. Quoting relevant posts:

Quote Originally Posted by Slebby View Post
What on earth does the degree of criminal drug activity/organized crime within the oil and gas industry in Alberta, booming metropolises or Fort McMurray have to do with the murder of a pair of grandparents and a 5 year old boy??

If it is not nasty speculation about the victims and/or their family, what is it?

IMHO

Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
Okay - let's put the drug discussion, as it pertains to the victims, away for now. If something breaks in MSM, then it can be reconsidered.

And, as always, please remember to be respectful of each other. This is not a contest, it is an exploration.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Krystine]

Yes agreed. And all the more reason, don't you think, to hype up whatever potential publicly-interesting stories they know they have coming? To stay in business, they're going to have to get advertisers on their websites, and to get people to choose 'their' websites to visit, as opposed to other media outlet websites, they're going to have to make it interesting. The world is sure changing, and kudos to those who can be flexible enough to keep up with the times and still make a living!

Definitely. Although you refer to web sites, I'm referring to the 'news paper' you pay for, and read from cover to cover every day. We don't like our news and information in dribs and drabs.
For people of my peer group, it will be a sad day in 2016 when CBC will no longer be broadcasting talk radio. I also miss my landline

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Interesting for sure, I guess they can keep sending in the psychologists to reassess as many times as they need for the 'right' diagnosis they're hoping for? There would have to be a limit I'd think, but you never know.

These are 'forensic' psychiatrists with very special training...I would imagine that the Courts would require a 2nd opinion...especially in an "NCR" assessment result. Good practice. JMO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Ok. Here is my attempt. It is not meant to be offensive or hurtful...
Is DG the biological son of AG and DG?

I am not adopted so I can not speak of the emotional trauma and the life long process of understanding why and how, grieving, accepting, wanting, doubting, etc. I think adoption is a beautiful thing and my only close encounter with it is when I found out my father and his high school girlfriend had given their son up for adoption when they were sixteen years old. I had the pleasure of meeting him when I was a teenager. He was an adult when I met him and he loved his adopted parents and they were extremely good to him and he has a wonderful life because of it and that would have only happened if he was with the people who loved and cared for him and were able to provide for him. He is grateful and at peace with it and so am I. But, I am sure growing up he had a lot of questions and doubt and feeling of abandonment and on and on. He was fortunate to work through it and I am sure it is a life-long process.

Some children who are adopted suffer deeply, they never heal, they feel unloved, rejected. I have read profiles of murderers that have been adopted and the link to adoption is a critical identifier to the past and present problems the child or adult encounters. I can research and link this if it is necessary. I am no expert but it could play into part of his motive or built up emotions and pain and suffering. I personally would not see this as an excuse to justify his behaviour or his acts of murder (if he is guilty, of course). It is simply an observation and a question I have raised.

I have not seen photo's of DG's siblings that may show a striking similarity or not in their resemblance of one another. By that I mean, do they look related? Is it obvious or not? The dynamics of the family could be very hard for him to comprehend. If he is the oldest maybe his siblings are the biological, maybe they aren't. Maybe his ADHD eats away at him because his birth parents are responsible for that. It could have a lot to do with his psychological capacity. It could be his desire to be someone else (Matthew Hartley).

What does it have to do with anything? I don't know. I am making an observation/question based on human behaviour and maybe my intuition (for lack of a better way to understand myself why I question this). I wonder if his parents and siblings will ever be able to convince him to do the right thing. If he is adopted and not in a good relationship with his family it could be a great possibility that they will have no impact on him in a positive way. It would be very unfortunate and difficult for his family. I understand that.

This is a wonderfully written and well-organized accounting of your thoughts and feelings on the possible emotional impact of adoption. I don't know how many times I wish I was adopted! lol. But... I was not.
The things you mention above can definitely affect the biological child/children in a family as well. I have 3 brothers...don't look like any one of them, nor do they look like each other. My emotional and physiological make-up are very different from my brothers' ... and I can honestly say that I have felt all of the things you have listed above. I don't know if his character traits and behaviour would signify adoption, although they certainly could. His ADD could have been passed down from a grandparent or aunt/uncle, or his neurons just aren't firing correctly without any precursors...mine aren't...lol.

I totally agree with you on adoption being a special thing...it should be, but maybe sometimes (as you've pointed out), it's not. Foster care on the other hand...JMO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

This thread is about the murders of three people in Calgary. One of the victims, and both parents of another victim, worked/work in the Calgary oil industry. The third victim's husband worked in the Calgary oil industry. The accused has a long criminal history, and is an unemployed loner. Quoting relevant posts:

Otto, is it possible to widen your scope of understanding to include the fact that these places mentioned in Stan's post above are populated by people from all over Alberta...Canada actually, which includes resources from Calgary...therefore, that makes them Calgarians in the oil industry? As mentioned before, the Calgary Oil & Gas industry is widely represented up in Fort Mac, Rainbow Lake etc. There is a Syncrude office in Calgary, there is a Suncor office in Calgary...these offices are directly connected to Syncrude and Suncor in Fort McMurray and other places. Calgary's Oil & Gas industry, is a subset of Alberta's Oil & Gas industry.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

This has ab-so-lute-ly nothing whatsoever to do with Sam Elliot.

Noooo....but it totally smacks of Matthew McConnaughey in a Time to Kill....gotta stay open Stan...lol

 

[otto]

Otto, is it possible to widen your scope of understanding to include the fact that these places mentioned in Stan's post above are populated by people from all over Alberta...Canada actually, which includes resources from Calgary...therefore, that makes them Calgarians in the oil industry? As mentioned before, the Calgary Oil & Gas industry is widely represented up in Fort Mac, Rainbow Lake etc. There is a Syncrude office in Calgary, there is a Suncor office in Calgary...these offices are directly connected to Syncrude and Suncor in Fort McMurray and other places. Calgary's Oil & Gas industry, is a subset of Alberta's Oil & Gas industry.

I see. We should widen the scope and understand that oil industry employees, regardless of where they live, are Calgarians by virtue of the fact that oil company head offices are in Calgary. Furthermore, we should accept that oil company employees that live in other parts of the country are drug abusers, therefore Calgary oil company employees are drug abusers. In the context of this discussion, we know that the victims, and their immediate family, are Calgary oil company employees.

Clearly this line of reasoning, with its wide scope of understanding, is intended to portray Calgary oil company employees - in this case the victims and their immediate family, as having some connection with illegal drugs.

What next? Now that there has been such an earnest group effort (lasting several days) to associate illegal drug use with the victims, what is the point of this earnest effort?

 

[otto]

With all due respect, it seems a little 'baiting', imho, to ask for links to be provided and then when links are provided as requested, to then repost an admonishment from mods.

With all due respect, my request for links was on September 15. Since then, much has changed, including a request to stop attempting to associate the victims with illegal drug abuse until such time that a connection is reported in the media.

 

[otto]

otto, it seems to me that you were asking for proof, a link, that drugs and unsavoury types exist in the O&G industry in Calgary, so I think people have been responding to your requests.

Two articles have been linked that have some relevance. One is from six years ago, the other is from seven years ago.

I'll play along. Let's assume that Calgary oil executives/employees are drug abusers. In the context of this case, we have three victims, all of whom either were oil company employees, or the immediate family are oil company employees. Let's assume that they are drug abusers ... since obviously there no other reason for the discussion about drug abusing oil company employees.

Continue that thought ... what does this tell us about the murders?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Just logged on and was recapping the last 24 hours posts on this thread and I thought for a moment I had logged on to the wrong website and inadvertently been linked to an online dating site.

 

[LoriMcA]

First article I've seen about the court appearance coming this morning ...not a lot new..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-douglas-garland-to-appear-in-court-1.2768976