Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[Slebby]

It sure would be great to see that video...

...and it would be great to see how often DG appears, or if there is anything else visible in the video that LE has not publicized.

 

[Cherchri]

So would this mean the truck was only on camera twice? Does this mean he drove the other way down the steet to leave and wasn't on camera leaving?

You know.... I assumed she was only referring to the coming and not the going.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Lala he would have had to turn around to make eye contact and he did not do that. The way the prisoners' area is set up, they face side-on to where the various counsel are situated. His hair is much fuller and longer now. He is definitely my height and quite a diminutive man. He looks as though he has lost some weight. I sat next to the sketch artist - Janice Fletcher. She did not have time to sketch him while he was in the court which may explain why her rendering looks nothing like him. I had a lovely long talk with Elissa Carpenter of CTV News. She has her own theory and I have to tell you that it varies only very slightly from mine. I overheard another reporter saying he is watching Breaking Bad on netflix as he is sure the victim disposal was close. Another said he was aware that lye was removed from the property and he had seen an overhead of an incinerator. He said "not an industrial incinerator" but an incinerator nonetheless. Elissa talked to me about the timeline of the truck on CCTV in Parkhill. First picked up at 9:15 and then again at 10:15. She speculates he would have seen JO's vehicle at 9:15 and came back later when it appeared "company" had left. I barely recognized RO who is now bearded - he kindly held the door for me on entering the courtroom. AL was with someone I thought o be PG. She held the door for me going out and was visibly teary eyed. Problem is, this lady had very long blonde hair and the only pics I have seen of PG her hair was brunette and not very long. I know PG has dimples but since this lady did not smile, I can't be sure it was her. Ch and her husband were there too and that was it for family. I have to say I had heart palpitations when I realized DG was being ushered in..... Shackled I might add. His facial expression did not vary an iota and it was much like the pic of him coming out of processing when he had just done the perp walk. Angry looking. As he was escorted out, he glanced into the room as if looking for a familiar face.....just a fleeting glance and then head down. So very little news to share just my firsthand experience. I am still overwhelmed at being do close to him - I could have whispered to him!


Ok just checked FB pics - pretty sure it was Nancy with AL.

Strange, I thought PG was the lady in the wedding pics with longer blonde hair with the 3 children?

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks for the lowdown Cherchr! Who is Nancy? Where did you see a pic of PG? (I haven't seen one yet?) How do you know she has dimples (because you've seen her smiling photo?) No sighting of DG's parents? Was there a delay in DG's appearance specifically, or is that just how it happened to turn out timewise today (because of the other cases before his?) It was mentioned in MSM (as Otto posted just above) that KR had informed the court on how far he had progressed through the disclosure to date, did you happen to hear anything in that regard? Hey I came across an interesting article on the manufacture of meth.. I will post a link later.. thank you again for your report, it is great to have a WS member in attendance!

Lala he would have had to turn around to make eye contact and he did not do that. The way the prisoners' area is set up, they face side-on to where the various counsel are situated. His hair is much fuller and longer now. He is definitely my height and quite a diminutive man. He looks as though he has lost some weight. I sat next to the sketch artist - Janice Fletcher. She did not have time to sketch him while he was in the court which may explain why her rendering looks nothing like him. I had a lovely long talk with Elissa Carpenter of CTV News. She has her own theory and I have to tell you that it varies only very slightly from mine. I overheard another reporter saying he is watching Breaking Bad on netflix as he is sure the victim disposal was close. Another said he was aware that lye was removed from the property and he had seen an overhead of an incinerator. He said "not an industrial incinerator" but an incinerator nonetheless. Elissa talked to me about the timeline of the truck on CCTV in Parkhill. First picked up at 9:15 and then again at 10:15. She speculates he would have seen JO's vehicle at 9:15 and came back later when it appeared "company" had left. I barely recognized RO who is now bearded - he kindly held the door for me on entering the courtroom. AL was with someone I thought o be PG. She held the door for me going out and was visibly teary eyed. Problem is, this lady had very long blonde hair and the only pics I have seen of PG her hair was brunette and not very long. I know PG has dimples but since this lady did not smile, I can't be sure it was her. Ch and her husband were there too and that was it for family. I have to say I had heart palpitations when I realized DG was being ushered in..... Shackled I might add. His facial expression did not vary an iota and it was much like the pic of him coming out of processing when he had just done the perp walk. Angry looking. As he was escorted out, he glanced into the room as if looking for a familiar face.....just a fleeting glance and then head down. So very little news to share just my firsthand experience. I am still overwhelmed at being do close to him - I could have whispered to him!


Ok just checked FB pics - pretty sure it was Nancy with AL.

 

[Slebby]

Correct! That is precisely it. My mom had an expression "Damned if you do. Damned if you don't". I never fully understood it as a kid. Sure do now

I posted a comment earlier about the CBC link. It it may have been missed by some.

Looking back - the CBC article linked mentioned drug use among executives in Calgary, it did not specify oil and gas executives. There was a link to a satirical site, which was amusing but not to be taken as factual (described the drug habits specific to career groups - geologists like magic mushrooms, engineers like cocaine, etc. and gives goofy reasons for their taste preferences) And there was a link about an increase in crack use in Alberta, speculation that it was related to affluenza, but again, did not speak directly to O and G in Calgary.

I apologize if I am wrong and I missed a link in support of that claim, but in my quick search back, these were the 3 most recently posted links in support of the idea of a high level of drug use in Calgary O and G offices.

 

[Cherchri]

Two articles have been linked that have some relevance. One is from six years ago, the other is from seven years ago.

I'll play along. Let's assume that Calgary oil executives/employees are drug abusers. In the context of this case, we have three victims, all of whom either were oil company employees, or the immediate family are oil company employees. Let's assume that they are drug abusers ... since obviously there no other reason for the discussion about drug abusing oil company employees.

Continue that thought ... what does this tell us about the murders?

All posts in this regard were in response to your demands. If you insert the word "some" between "that" and "Calgary" your statement would be valid. One of my links quoted our Solicitor General. Valid? I'd say. A problem exists in our province. That is not to say any victims were in any way associated with drugs! You requested evidence of "drugheads" in the sector so I would venture to say you opened the discourse. The tone is also disrespectful and baiting.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Yes, I made my dire comment before she confirmed! I explained the logo and name made me think male, not necessarily her tone... And when I hear new talk, I think of a very newsy voice like Bill Kurtis lol! Sorry again news.talk!

I blame it on the microphone. Subliminal messaging.

(Finally got it right)

 

[Krystine]

Just logged on and was recapping the last 24 hours posts on this thread and I thought for a moment I had logged on to the wrong website and inadvertently been linked to an online dating site.

One where gender lines are blurred?

 

[Cherchri]

I posted a comment earlier about the CBC link. It it may have been missed by some.

Looking back - the CBC article linked mentioned drug use among executives in Calgary, it did not specify oil and gas executives. There was a link to a satirical site, which was amusing but not to be taken as factual (described the drug habits specific to career groups - geologists like magic mushrooms, engineers like cocaine, etc. and gives goofy reasons for their taste preferences) And there was a link about an increase in crack use in Alberta, speculation that it was related to affluenza, but again, did not speak directly to O and G in Calgary.

I apologize if I am wrong and I missed a link in support of that claim, but in my quick search back, these were the 3 most recently posted links in support of the idea of a high level of drug use in Calgary O and G offices.

I think you will find..... In fact I know you will find ...... that I never, at any point, stated that there was a problem. I did provide links including the satirical one, the one quoting our Solicitor General and the one on the increased use of Crack in Calgary. All in support of a discussion opened by another poster. It seems there is a problem in Calgary among executives and it does not appear to be limited to any particular industry.

 

[Cherchri]

Thanks for the lowdown Cherchr! Who is Nancy? Where did you see a pic of PG? (I haven't seen one yet?) How do you know she has dimples (because you've seen her smiling photo?) No sighting of DG's parents? Was there a delay in DG's appearance specifically, or is that just how it happened to turn out timewise today (because of the other cases before his?) It was mentioned in MSM (as Otto posted just above) that KR had informed the court on how far he had progressed through the disclosure to date, did you happen to hear anything in that regard? Hey I came across an interesting article on the manufacture of meth.. I will post a link later.. thank you again for your report, it is great to have a WS member in attendance!

Nancy is Eileen and Allen's sister. Alvin's daughter.

 

[julydarling]

Hi everyone! Long time since ive posted... small kids and a vacation will suck the time like nobody's business.

Thanks for the report cherchri!
Also... news.talk is a girl?!? Thats the most surprising development imo [emoji2]

 

[Cherchri]

Thanks for the lowdown Cherchr! Who is Nancy? Where did you see a pic of PG? (I haven't seen one yet?) How do you know she has dimples (because you've seen her smiling photo?) No sighting of DG's parents? Was there a delay in DG's appearance specifically, or is that just how it happened to turn out timewise today (because of the other cases before his?) It was mentioned in MSM (as Otto posted just above) that KR had informed the court on how far he had progressed through the disclosure to date, did you happen to hear anything in that regard? Hey I came across an interesting article on the manufacture of meth.. I will post a link later.. thank you again for your report, it is great to have a WS member in attendance!

KR did not inform the court....I saw that report and scratched my head. I don't see that in any other reports and I certainly heard nothing to that effect. I have seen many pics of PG on Facebook. Only RO, NL, AL, CH and her husband were there. No other family of accused or victims. KR only showed up at 12 noon so who knows if that was by arrangement. The judge did ask very early in the day where KR was and why the sketch artist should have to sit there all morning. The judge is a very likeable man. Good humoured, kindly and very respectful to accused, counsel et al.

 

[Cherchri]

Strange, I thought PG was the lady in the wedding pics with longer blonde hair with the 3 children?

I did take a quick look and in some pics she does have longer hair and highlights but it definitely wasn't her there today. 99% sure it was NL.

 

[Cherchri]

^^BBM

Thank you SO much Cherchri! I just have to say WOW...about all of it....The 'theory' *one I also agree with* ...sure seems to be a popular one doesn't it?

9:15 & 10:15...well that would explain the 'almost daylight' lighting in the picture....possibly the screenshot from the police came from the 9:15 drive by....I'm thinking the woman with very long blonde hair ...maybe EL? JMOO

I'd be totally creeped out being THAT close....oh my.....thank you again for your time & all this first hand information!!

The reporters read our posts! One admitted that to me today. We know one of them picked up my post exposing who the POI was and claiming a scoop nearly 2 days later I shared my theory waaaaay back when and no, I have not watched Breaking Bad. After seeing the trailer of the guy in his y-fronts I decided it wasn't for me

 

[Cherchri]

Cherchi. When you have a moment, can you tell us your theory? I'm sure you've laid it out before but I sort of take it all in without remembering which poster said what. Thanks.


Edited to add: we might as well rehash theories, we have until May before anything happens with this case...

My theory is that the victims were disposed of with lye and the calcified remains incinerated. Under pressure and feeling nauseated to even type it, I responded (separately) to someone's question as to how I thought the victims were murdered. I suggested they were bludgeoned with a tyre iron while sleeping. I can think of no reason why the victims would be removed from the scene unless it was to ensure that they would never be found. Why take that risk? I honestly feel sick even re typing this but there you have it.

 

[CentralAlberta]

I'm picking my nose as I type this, seriously,,, the last one was like a dry autumn leaf attached to a wet elastic band.

OMG, Stan L. Today, every time I saw one of my students picking their nose, I thought of you. This sight is forever etched in my memory! LOL

 

[LoriMcA]

One where gender lines are blurred?

Oh geez...thanks Krystine...thanks a HEAP :tantrum: ...now I have that gawd awful Robin Thicke song in my head!

The reporters read our posts! One admitted that to me today. We know one of them picked up my post exposing who the POI was and claiming a scoop nearly 2 days later I shared my theory waaaaay back when and no, I have not watched Breaking Bad. After seeing the trailer of the guy in his y-fronts I decided it wasn't for me

Yes...the 'theory' was waaaay back...and I've only watched a few of the shows...it was too depressing!

My theory is that the victims were disposed of with lye and the calcified remains incinerated. Under pressure and feeling nauseated to even type it, I responded (separately) to someone's question as to how the victims were murdered. I suggested they were bludgeoned with a tyre iron while sleeping. I can think of no reason why the victims would be removed from the scene unless it was to ensure that they would never be found. Why take that risk? I honestly feel sick even re typing this but there you have it.

I agree with lye &/or chemicals of some sort...and burning. I don't know about the tire iron...the events at the house I just don't have a clear picture of....other than horrific. I don't like dissecting the works either...I'd just rather try and figure out finding them....


& this article about reporter questions & the disclosure thusfar:

http://www.660news.com/2014/09/17/preliminary-inquiry-set-for-douglas-garland/

"We’ve been through a large bulk of it, but I understand there’s still a lot more that’s going to come, I understand that we won’t have full disclosure until probably sometime later in November, early December,” Ross said."

One question that's been on my mind... I thought there were 6 children in A & K's family? 4 from AL's first marriage (EL, ALJr, Nancy & ?) Then of course JO & JL. Just wondering about the 4th from the 1st marriage...I could be wrong but...I'm pretty sure I remember there being 6...

 

[LoisLane]

When I explore that DG has successfully disposed of 3 bodies with chemicals I can't help but think he must have experience doing so. I wonder if any large animals or dogs would have been used for practice. He must have tried this before.

 

[deugirtni]

So here are some articles I happened upon regarding the manufacture of meth. they are very interesting! In fact, the whole part on this site about meth is really interesting!

In the one article, it is like a timeline/history type of thing. It almost seems like DG was ahead of his time, perhaps that is why LE referred to him as a genius?? The article is interesting (to me at least) for a number of reasons, such as... the history, the P2P thing, and... the Mexican connection.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/etc/cron.html

In the other article, it is interesting because it talks somewhat about ingredients (BBM):

How is meth made?
Making methamphetamine is a multi-step cook process. The key ingredient is ephedrine or its cousin, pseudoephedrine. Both are chemicals found in over-the-counter cold, cough and allergy medicines. Additional chemicals are used to isolate the ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, cook it into meth, and process it into a form for consumption. These chemicals can be cheap, everyday household items like ammonia, lye, and red phosphorus scraped from matchbook covers. Start to finish, the cook process takes about 48 hours and can be hazardous because at one or more stages, the solution needs to be heated, producing toxic fumes and the chance of explosion.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/faqs/

I also wanted to note that DG, as we know, was charged with I believe 2 counts of 'trafficking' in regard to his 'meth lab' back in 1992, and according to this information on the link below, the penalty was several years, even back in 1992, and if when he finally got caught some 7 years years later after jumping bail, assuming/stealing a false identity, stealing a truck and being in possession of it, ducking a police officer, etc., the man only got 39 months, which was ultimately reduced to only 6 months. So I'm wondering...... how much meth was really involved in his operation that got busted? I know he told the judge that he made his own meth to treat his ADD, so I'm suggesting that the small sentence he received would kind of substantiate that. If he had been involved with a meth lab which produced all kinds of drugs to be sold to gangs and etc., I'm petty sure, IMHO, the penalty would have been much harsher, and especially when combined with the other, additional charges after taking off. I just wanted to make that point because it has been stated on here that he is some huge antisocial loser with a long history of criminal offences, and to me, that paints a much worse picture than what common sense might suggest after looking into sentencing for same. It seems that at one time the penalty was at 10 years, and that now it is more than that, but I found it hard to find historical info.

Meth production
Case Cite Sentence Amount Summary
R. v. Nguyen 2011 ONSC 6229 5 years age 23; also charged w arson; lab
R. v. Durette 1992 CanLII 2779 (ON CA), (1992), 9 O.R. (3d) 557 5-9 years biker gang-related
R. v. Lukaniuk 1989 34 O.A.C. 321 (C.A.) 6 years lab

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Offences/Drug_Offences/Print_version#Meth_production

 

[deugirtni]

Ahhhhh, I understand the relationship now, to the *other* word you were trying out last night! Excellent!

I blame it on the microphone. Subliminal messaging.

(Finally got it right)