Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[deugirtni]

Haha, are you serious???? MADE him take a bath?? Oh geez.

No...they made Robert Pickton take a bath.. So maybe someone shaved DG...although the fact that he was in court in person is encouraging

 

[Tinkerbel1]

So I shaved my manly legs today, I'm still really depressed that I appear to be a man. Which reminds me, I have to go back to work before they fire my manly butt! Have fun sleuthers! BBL! Hope you hear from Cherchri soon!

I have waxed many a manly leg. Not to worry!! We still love you [emoji8] I know you're a beautiful lady...hairy, legs, lip or not. Chin up...it could be worse.. You could have Stan's affliction!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Makes sense. I believe Matthew Degroot has already had the psych assessment and possibly a second opinion. Where does the request for a psych evaluation fit in with DG? Would that have been requested today or not until the preliminary?

Doesn't sound like they asked for one...unless they do that at preliminary hearing as well?

 

[otto]

"Douglas Garland, the man accused in the murders of Alvin and Kathy Liknes and their grandson Nathan O’Brien, appeared briefly in person at the Calgary Court Centre on Wednesday.

Garland’s lawyer, Kim Ross, provided an update to the court on how far he is through the disclosure of evidence from police.

Garland has been charged with two counts of first degree murder in the deaths of the Liknes’ and one count of second degree murder in the death of their grandson Nathan.

The bodies of all three victims have not been found.

Garland is expected back in court in December. He will remain in the Remand Centre until that time."


http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/douglas-garland-appears-in-court-briefly-1.2010722#ixzz3DbKGQivS

 

[Cherchri]

So we waited 3 hours for a 3 minute appearance BUT DG appeared in person. Since I was sitting right by the Sheriff with just plexiglass between us, he was 100% visible to me and close enough that I could almost hear him breathe. I will put some more info together in a sec but the info pasted over is accurate. dec 4 a private meeting and then May 19 preliminary. PS it was worth the 3 hour wait!

 

[Slebby]

It may not be enough for reasonable doubt, but it may be that there is something else there if really looked at. JMO

I know there are posters here who believe DG is guilty, others who think he may be innocent. If I believed he was innocent (I'm neutral, but also would be more surprised to see him exonerated, with what we know so far) I too would think it a terrible travesty if he was wrongly convicted.

But the flip side of that, for me, is if DG did it yet was not found guilty. I simply don't know how the victims' families could survive that outcome, particularly if they felt certain of his guilt. Murder is awful, 3 murders is awful, and the murder of a 5 year old is just the worst fact of all in this case. To see no justice - it hurts me to consider, I can't imagine, as a mother.

I'm sure this is why LE has been so tight-lipped - so nothing can happen that would jeopardize their pursuit of justice in this case. And I'm sure, for example, this is why they made the trip to Mexico - so no defence lawyer can say "no bodies, they were planning to move to Mexico, did you check there?"

So as we talk about other avenues of inquiry, a decent defender would do his best to pursue those other possibilities. But I would hope that simply finding someone who had a beef with AL would not be enough to create reasonable doubt. Rather, I'd feel the doubt is reasonable if one of those disgruntled former associates was also caught on video driving their vehicle near the scene and at the time of the crime, or something more compelling than "investment did not work out well".

 

[Cherchri]

When is it (in the process) that an accused pleads guilty or not-guilty?

Amazingly no plea. Since they are moving ahead with preliminary, we are left to assume he is not pleading guilty. No request for a psych evaluation either.

 

[Cherchri]

I am just double checking a number of things.... Ito identifying people by the correct names and I will give a full report. For me, all the action happened outside the courtroom with the press.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Amazingly no plea. Since they are moving ahead with preliminary, we are left to assume he is not pleading guilty. No request for a psych evaluation either.

I know you're going to update us later Cherchri, but did you find him small in stature? Healthy/unhealthy looking? Agitated or calm? Sad or neutral? Sorry, so many questions!

And I read he didn't make eye contact with anyone present. I'm still shocked more of the L and O families weren't there to make some sort of emotional impact on him. If guilty, he knows damn well where he put his victims, and I keep thinking he might budge more with the families there staring him down IMO.

 

[Cherchri]

I know you're going to update us later Cherchri, but did you find him small in stature? Healthy/unhealthy looking? Agitated or calm? Sad or neutral? Sorry, so many questions!

And I read he didn't make eye contact with anyone present. I'm still shocked more of the L and O families weren't there to make some sort of emotional impact on him. If guilty, he knows damn well where he put his victims, and I keep thinking he might budge more with the families there staring him down IMO.

Lala he would have had to turn around to make eye contact and he did not do that. The way the prisoners' area is set up, they face side-on to where the various counsel are situated. His hair is much fuller and longer now. He is definitely my height and quite a diminutive man. He looks as though he has lost some weight. I sat next to the sketch artist - Janice Fletcher. She did not have time to sketch him while he was in the court which may explain why her rendering looks nothing like him. I had a lovely long talk with Elissa Carpenter of CTV News. She has her own theory and I have to tell you that it varies only very slightly from mine. I overheard another reporter saying he is watching Breaking Bad on netflix as he is sure the victim disposal was close. Another said he was aware that lye was removed from the property and he had seen an overhead of an incinerator. He said "not an industrial incinerator" but an incinerator nonetheless. Elissa talked to me about the timeline of the truck on CCTV in Parkhill. First picked up at 9:15 and then again at 10:15. She speculates he would have seen JO's vehicle at 9:15 and came back later when it appeared "company" had left. I barely recognized RO who is now bearded - he kindly held the door for me on entering the courtroom. AL was with someone I thought o be PG. She held the door for me going out and was visibly teary eyed. Problem is, this lady had very long blonde hair and the only pics I have seen of PG her hair was brunette and not very long. I know PG has dimples but since this lady did not smile, I can't be sure it was her. Ch and her husband were there too and that was it for family. I have to say I had heart palpitations when I realized DG was being ushered in..... Shackled I might add. His facial expression did not vary an iota and it was much like the pic of him coming out of processing when he had just done the perp walk. Angry looking. As he was escorted out, he glanced into the room as if looking for a familiar face.....just a fleeting glance and then head down. So very little news to share just my firsthand experience. I am still overwhelmed at being do close to him - I could have whispered to him!


Ok just checked FB pics - pretty sure it was Nancy with AL.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I know there are posters here who believe DG is guilty, others who think he may be innocent. If I believed he was innocent (I'm neutral, but also would be more surprised to see him exonerated, with what we know so far) I too would think it a terrible travesty if he was wrongly convicted.

But the flip side of that, for me, is if DG did it yet was not found guilty. I simply don't know how the victims' families could survive that outcome, particularly if they felt certain of his guilt. Murder is awful, 3 murders is awful, and the murder of a 5 year old is just the worst fact of all in this case. To see no justice - it hurts me to consider, I can't imagine, as a mother.

I'm sure this is why LE has been so tight-lipped - so nothing can happen that would jeopardize their pursuit of justice in this case. And I'm sure, for example, this is why they made the trip to Mexico - so no defence lawyer can say "no bodies, they were planning to move to Mexico, did you check there?"

So as we talk about other avenues of inquiry, a decent defender would do his best to pursue those other possibilities. But I would hope that simply finding someone who had a beef with AL would not be enough to create reasonable doubt. Rather, I'd feel the doubt is reasonable if one of those disgruntled former associates was also caught on video driving their vehicle near the scene and at the time of the crime, or something more compelling than "investment did not work out well".

It sure would be great to see that video...

 

[LoriMcA]

Lala he would have had to turn around to make eye contact and he did not do that. The way the prisoners' area is set up, they face side-on to where the various counsel are situated. His hair is much fuller and longer now. He is definitely my height and quite a diminutive man. He looks as though he has lost some weight. I sat next to the sketch artist - Janice Fletcher. She did not have time to sketch him while he was in the court which may explain why her rendering looks nothing like him. I had a lovely long talk with Elissa Carpenter of CTV News. She has her own theory and I have to tell you that is varies only very slightly from mine. I overheard another reporter saying he is watching Breaking Bad on netflix as he is sure the victim disposal was close. Another said he was aware that lye was removed from the property and he had seen an overhead of an incinerator. He said "not an industrial incinerator" but an incinerator nonetheless. Elissa talked to me about the timeline of the truck on CCTV in Parkhill. First picked up at 9:15 and then again at 10:15. She speculates he would have seen JO's vehicle at 9:15 and came back later when it appeared "company" had left. I barely recognized RO who is now bearded - he kindly held the door for me on entering the courtroom. AL was with someone I thought o be PG. She held the door for me going out and was visibly teary eyed. Problem is, this lady had very long blonde hair and the only pics I have seen of PG her hair was brunette and not very long. I know PG has dimples but since this lady did not smile, I can't be sure it was her. Ch and her husband were there too and that was it for family. I have to say I had heart palpitations when I realized DG was being ushered in..... Shackled I might add. His facial expression did not vary an iota and it was much like the pic of him coming out of processing when he had just done the perp walk. Angry looking. As he was escorted out, he glanced into the room as if looking for a familiar face.....just a fleeting glance and then head down. So very little news to share just my firsthand experience. I am still overwhelmed at being do close to him - I could have whispered to him!

^^BBM

Thank you SO much Cherchri! I just have to say WOW...about all of it....The 'theory' *one I also agree with* ...sure seems to be a popular one doesn't it?

9:15 & 10:15...well that would explain the 'almost daylight' lighting in the picture....possibly the screenshot from the police came from the 9:15 drive by....I'm thinking the woman with very long blonde hair ...maybe EL? JMOO

I'd be totally creeped out being THAT close....oh my.....thank you again for your time & all this first hand information!!

 

[Krystine]

news.talk, how about you can be Bill Kurtis from the old A&E show American Justice? Not sure you've ever watched it, he had such a distinctive voice, very news talky I think he does the odd commercial voice over too, just like Sam!

But...but...didn't we just find out news.talk is a girl?

 

[Slebby]

So in relation to other murder trials does May seem like an overly long time period for the preliminary hearing?

Apparently it's not an unusual length of time, and I understand, the wheels of justice move slowly. But I find it discouraging that probably nothing of substance will happen before then. I personally do not believe any remains will be found. So really, it is up to the killer to reveal the location of the bodies, if one even exists, and if the remains were not completely destroyed. I do not remember too many murderers spontaneously developing a conscience and spilling the kind of details that could give a family partial closure as to the fate of their loved ones. What a terrible torture to put them through.

IMO

 

[Slebby]

Cherchi. When you have a moment, can you tell us your theory? I'm sure you've laid it out before but I sort of take it all in without remembering which poster said what. Thanks.


Edited to add: we might as well rehash theories, we have until May before anything happens with this case...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

But...but...didn't we just find out news.talk is a girl?

Yes, I made my dire comment before she confirmed! I explained the logo and name made me think male, not necessarily her tone... And when I hear new talk, I think of a very newsy voice like Bill Kurtis lol! Sorry again news.talk!

 

[Cherchri]

Just a side note...court starts at 10 am Calgary time...here's hoping it's a slow day for cases and we get some news soon...

It actually started at 9. I sat through 8 other matters prior to DG's appearance. All but one were moved to later dates. One pleaded guilty and was sentenced. It's a bit of a sausage machine.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

^^BBM

Thank you SO much Cherchri! I just have to say WOW...about all of it....The 'theory' *one I also agree with* ...sure seems to be a popular one doesn't it?

9:15 & 10:15...well that would explain the 'almost daylight' lighting in the picture....possibly the screenshot from the police came from the 9:15 drive by....I'm thinking the woman with very long blonde hair ...maybe EL? JMOO


I'd be totally creeped out being THAT close....oh my.....thank you again for your time & all this first hand information!!

So would this mean the truck was only on camera twice? Does this mean he drove the other way down the steet to leave and wasn't on camera leaving?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

^^BBM

Thank you SO much Cherchri! I just have to say WOW...about all of it....The 'theory' *one I also agree with* ...sure seems to be a popular one doesn't it?

9:15 & 10:15...well that would explain the 'almost daylight' lighting in the picture....possibly the screenshot from the police came from the 9:15 drive by....I'm thinking the woman with very long blonde hair ...maybe EL? JMOO


I'd be totally creeped out being THAT close....oh my.....thank you again for your time & all this first hand information!!

So would this mean the truck was only on camera twice? Does this mean he drove the other way down the steet to leave and wasn't on camera leaving?

 

[Cherchri]

otto, it seems to me that you were asking for proof, a link, that drugs and unsavoury types exist in the O&G industry in Calgary, so I think people have been responding to your requests.

Correct! That is precisely it. My mom had an expression "Damned if you do. Damned if you don't". I never fully understood it as a kid. Sure do now