VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #7

[Macpad]

14th street by Wertland is where the frat houses are...

I know and her apartment is at 15th - like I said less than a half a block away.

 

[cluciano63]

Do you remember the missing woman who was caught on surveillance cameras peeking out of the Elevator. It almost looked like either someone was following her, or she was playing with someone? And then she was found in the water supply of the hotel. Elisa Lam? Anyways, I can't help but get the same kind of vibe. I feel like something altered HG state of mind. Whether it was a substance or something biological, I feel like that is why it doesn't really make sense.

Yes, but Elisa seemed really "on something" to me, or else having a medical episode of some sort.

 

[cluciano63]

14th street by Wertland is where the frat houses are...

If she did text that address...then I think it was her texting. JM was unlikely to know where she lived at that point, if he ever did, but surely not within minutes of meeting her. And it would be senseless for him to pick an address so close to,home if she was pretending she was lost. Who gets lost a block from home? I think she still had her phone at that point. Even if she went to bathroom, she likely took it with her, but jmo.

 

[momrids6]

I know and her apartment is at 15th - like I said less than a half a block away.

One rape on Wertland, and one on 15th- and one male assaulted almost to death- all right there- all in that early morning timeframe of the 14th and 15th...

 

[MLE]

What is not relevant are things like whether someone thought her outfit was appropriate or if she drank too much. Over and over. (modsnip)

I'm Jewish. I sometimes wear a yarmulke, particularly when I'm at a bar/bat mitzvah as well as some other occasions. When I'm in public in Tennessee, I don't. When I'm on business in some countries, I don't. And part of the reason has to do with personal safety. If I ever go missing in Egypt (or even Nashville for that matter) and the last footage of me is of me wearing a yarmulke, it would be pertinent to the discussion since wearing something like that would attract a lot of attention, some of it negative. Of course I should be able to wear what I want wherever and whenever I want without it attracting danger, but how things should be and how things actually are rarely coincide. Also, if I ever go missing and the last footage of me strongly indicates I was intoxicated, I would actually hope people would consider it very relevant to how it influenced my behavior, the behavior of others, and the possible direction of my night and my body.

I think her clothing may have been relevant and her alcohol consumption was almost certainly relevant. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Meemaw12]

When you look at this timeline

11:50 p.m. Friday — Graham last seen by friends at Camden Plaza Apartments, in the 200 block of 14th Street NW.
12:45 a.m. Saturday — Graham seen on surveillance video outside of McGrady’s Pub on Grady Street.
12:55 a.m. Saturday — Graham seen on Shell station surveillance video on Preston Ave.
1 a.m. Saturday — Witness reports seeing Graham on Downtown Mall
1:06 a.m. Saturday — Video captures Graham in front of Sal’s, continuing to walk east along the mall.
1:08 a.m. Saturday — Graham seen in front of Tuel Jewelers.
1:20 a.m. Saturday — Graham sends a text to friends saying she was lost in the area around 14th and Wertland Streets.

within 1 1/2 hrs HG disappears and of that time, she is alone 55 mins going from the friends at 11:50 to the pub at 12:45. it is only when she gets to the mall and runs into WG and DG that 20 mins. later she is gone. (I don't know what time HG and DG were at the rest.)

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/18/all-surveillance-videos-of-missing-uva-student-hannah-elizabeth-graham/

IMO LE has this, just needs to find her. I believe they have the right POI due to the fact he is the last one that LE believes was with her.

IMO if LM has nothing to do with this, he would tell LE or take them to where exactly he and HG parted ways.

All just my opinion..

 

[Soulmagent]

I've wondered a bit why people think her behavior is so erratic and that she is distressed. Yes I see the stumble, and she does appear to be somewhat intoxicated. However no video is very clear and while i certainly think it's possible she was distressed, nothing on the video makes me think she was or was not. The video only shows me a bit of tipsy awkwardness, and randomness.

When I first saw the video ,I thought she was not drunk but on mushrooms. I also thought she was just running because it is darker in that area, she stops when she gets to the lighter area.
I dont think saying I hought she appeared ,to be ..etc..etc.. is bashing. She is 18 in her second year of college and should be enjoying her life . Alot of us have been that kid.
However to put yourself in the mindset to figure out what happen you have to consider how things effected her, how she effected her surroundings and she might of reacted.

 

[klily444]

Again just for the sake of keeping focus - a woman was beaten unconscious and raped less than a block from HG's apartment. Why is her story any less important and why do you think Longo wants to keep these incidences separate?

I can't speak for Longo, and I am not saying I agree with these ideas, but here is my speculation on why:
1. Other victim is not currently missing
2. He doesn't feel there is a connection between the other victim and Hannah
3. I don't know that anyone feels her story is less important. Victims of sex crimes often want to remain anonymous, so less media attention is given.
4. It is possible the unknown victims attack is being thoroughly investigated internally.

 

[Third Coast Gal]

I think we are clinging to it because it was really strange in the video, and because he admitted to following her. Yes, that would also make sense if he were a cop.

Except...if he were a cop, why didn't he follow through for longer? And why haven't police officially cleared him?

And, if he were a cop, why was his description of the person who approached HG so wrong? Wouldn't a cop have a better eye than the average person?

 

[klily444]

The only thing to support her being in distress is WG reasoning for following her. He apparently told LE she seemed in distress. I've been hesitant to believe that, just because I can't see it myself.

They did say "physically distressed". Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of WG, BUT....I can see Hannah moving very quickly and all over the place prior to arriving at the mall, and I would anticipate she was sweating, her hair was probably a bit wet from her forehead sweating and she may have been out of breath and dehydrated, coupled with the fact that by this time she was still at least slightly buzzed and she was exasperated (from what exactly, we don't know)

 

[Macpad]

I can't speak for Longo, and I am not saying I agree with these ideas, but here is my speculation on why:
1. Other victim is not currently missing
2. He doesn't feel there is a connection between the other victim and Hannah
3. I don't know that anyone feels her story is less important. Victims of sex crimes often want to remain anonymous, so less media attention is given.
4. It is possible the unknown victims attack is being thoroughly investigated internally.

1. Agreed
2. Uncertain
3. Don't know that she would have a choice given that she likely had to be taken to the hospital.
4. Likely

 

[otto]

I'm Jewish. I sometimes wear a yarmulke, particularly when I'm at a bar/bat mitzvah as well as some other occasions. When I'm in public in Tennessee, I don't. When I'm on business in some countries, I don't. And part of the reason has to do with personal safety. If I ever go missing in Egypt (or even Nashville for that matter) and the last footage of me is of me wearing a yarmulke, it would be pertinent to the discussion since wearing something like that would attract a lot of attention, some of it negative. Of course I should be able to wear what I want wherever and whenever I want without it attracting danger, but how things should be and how things actually are rarely coincide. Also, if I ever go missing and the last footage of me strongly indicates I was intoxicated, I would actually hope people would consider it very relevant to how it influenced my behavior, the behavior of others, and the possible direction of my night and my body.

I think her clothing may have been relevant and her alcohol consumption was almost certainly relevant. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Without doubt, the fact that she was intoxicated interfered with her ability to make good decisions. Instead of going home after the first party, she went looking for another party. She did that alone. She didn't know where she was going, and became lost, or disoriented. At some point, JM befriended her and she apparently, willingly, went to a restaurant/bar with him. It seems that he was a complete stranger, yet she made the decision to go with him. Police believe that she willingly got into his vehicle, which was another very bad decision. Had she been sober, it is unlikely that any of that would have happened.

How she was dressed would be a factor in drawing attention, possibly unwanted attention. However, that said, predators don't usually care how someone is dressed. I think they are more likely to look for vulnerability, such as intoxication, than how someone is dressed.

 

[momrids6]

[h=1]Two UVA students assaulted same weekend as Graham's disappearance[/h]Two University of Virginia students were sexually assaulted near Wertland Street the weekend of Hannah Graham's disappearance from the Downtown Mall, according to UVa police.
<>
The assaults have not, at this time, been connected to Graham's disappearance.

bbm;
http://www.tricities.com/news/article_78d7ccc4-4034-11e4-a63b-001a4bcf6878.html

 

[Jmm124567]

Anybody know if JM has had run ins with the police before?

 

[possumheart]

I am going to say this, as I am not American, and Hannah's family aren't. Looking at her tweets, she was quite used to drinking with her family ... Moët at celebrations, wine with dinner. All similar to my upbringing. Being trained by your family to pace your drinking. It seems that way to me, anyhow. I lived in the US for a short period of time in my late teens, and my tolerance and cultural attitude to alcohol was so different to the status quo. My concern is that although Hannah was comfortable with alcohol, there may have been something else in the mix that night that contributed to her disorientation - with or without her knowledge.

 

[2Hope4]

Not seeing any victim blaming, and haven't! What I have seen in way earlier threads was talk about the domino effect. Cause and effect. How a split second decision can have dangerous consequences, etc. No, we can't go back in time and change situations, circumstances, decisions, we can however LEARN from them!!! To completely overlook the actions and lack of actions that lead to Hannah's disappearance is missing part of the investigation. To start an investigation at the last known location, without anything further to go on, including someone's mental health, physical health, emotional well being, etc., is simply ignoring a large portion of the background of the investigation that lead to where is the missing person!

That's all! Educate, educate, and educate some more!!! Remind young adults away from the safety net of parents of the dangers that exist, the type of people that are coexisting among us all with intentions that aren't good, drill the buddy system and drill it some more!!! YES, we can ALL agree that IF someone harmed Hannah, that perp is to blame!!! From being on this board since 2008, I think I safely say that Hannah did NOT DESERVE anything harmful to happen to her now matter the circumstances! Rarely have I seen a poster even claim such, and if it happens, mods will remove that post pronto! I know, I've alerted to posts for them to check out before. Our mods do a darn good job!! Likewise, our members are compassionate, and hard working sleuthers! We want to go get to the bottom of the case, follow through with the trial, and hopeful convictions if there is foul play. We rejoice when someone is found! We worry when we know a person is missing with a history of depression/a marital problem/pregnancy/college student missing after drinking/etc. etc. etc. MANY participate in local search teams for our missing. Many have devoted YEARS to a case that might still be unsolved. No, victim blaming isn't our thing, and won't be tolerated. But circumstances leading up to that disappearance is a completely different thing!!!


We don't BLAME a depressed person for being a missing case. Instead we use our collective knowledge of prior cases, and the history behind the missing person to hopefully help decide if the person has sought out help for their depression, has taken a sebatical to clear their minds, could have wrecked while having their mind preoccupied with mental thoughts, could have placed themselves in an unsafe situation, or could have harmed themselves.

In most cases there's a list of questions that immediately pop into our minds as we read the first media releases that someone is missing. For instance, a child is missing, who was the last person outside of family that saw that child? Are we blaming the child?? NO! Are we blaming the parents? NO! We're simply trying to establish a timeline, a background, etc.

JMO..as always..

 

[Macpad]

I am going to say this, as I am not American, and Hannah's family aren't. Looking at her tweets, she was quite used to drinking with her family ... Moët at celebrations, wine with dinner. All similar to my upbringing. Being trained by your family to pace your drinking. It seems that way to me, anyhow. I lived in the US for a short period of time in my late teens, and my tolerance and cultural attitude to alcohol was so different to the status quo. My concern is that although Hannah was comfortable with alcohol, there may have been something else in the mix that night that contributed to her disorientation - with or without her knowledge.

We raised our three kids in such a manner that if they wished to have wine with us at dinner from the time they were roughly 16 - 17 years old, we supported it. The idea being to demystify it and for them to gain their sea legs.

 

[LI-Mom]

I skipped thread #6 because it's taking me too long to catch up, I'll try to backtrack.

I would like to see a more recent picture of POI because he looks like a baby faced 20 something year old in the pics I saw. He certainly doesn't look scary, quite the opposite in fact. I don't see a resemblance to the sketches from a past crime. The cab driver has the same hairline, though the nose seems wrong. As to the cab driver's name, I know someone named Jesse and to me it should be pronounced Jess, however, this guy I know pronounces it Jessie. Maybe cab driver just spelled it the way it sounds. Is it possible that he's POI's father? He looks older to me.

I'm wondering if POI dropped Hannah off and something happened to her after that by some other perp. There were other crimes committed nearby the next 2 nights. Or, POI didn't give her a ride and WG was still following her and did something. Although that doesn't really work for me because I believe Hannah did not text that she was lost at 14th and Wertland. I believe she attempted to text that she was Almost at 14th and Wertland.

I don't know if Hannah had an iPhone, but I do. And for the heck of it I opened a text box and typed in lmost, as if I missed the A, and it autocorrected it to Lost. For her to Almost be at 14th and Wertland at 1:20-ish would she have had to get a ride there or is it possible she could have jogged from the mall after leaving Tempo?

Also, iPhones are notorious for losing charge fairly quickly, some models more than others. Depending on how many apps you have running in the background, it may not last long at all. She had been out since 9:30, right? I could see her phone dying 4 hours later. There is no removable battery in an iPhone.

 

[Ashley426]

Deleted

 

[gliving]

Maybe Hannah asked Jesse to be her escort into Tango. Says she looking for someone and could he walk in with her so she doesn't get carded. She'll buy him a drink for his trouble.

She just seems so intent on finding someone. moo