Hannah Graham: The Search - #2

[Calico66]

I'm interested in how intoxicated or drunk HG was, at various points in the timeline. By the time she reached the pedestrian mall, around 1:08, she had been running and walking and wandering around for a long time. Nearly an hour and 20 minutes had passed since she had left the party at the Camden Plaza Apartments, right?

But I recall reading somewhere that the man on the pedestrian-mall video who ducked into the doorway to watch HG walk past claimed he was concerned about HG because she looked to be "in physical distress." So . . . she was, what? Walking or moving in a drunken or intoxicated manner? (Her walking stance does look slightly odd, in the video, kind of pitched forward, with arms hanging. Tho that could be just habitual.) Or did he mean she was looking sweaty and upset?

Does an hour and 20 minutes after the last possible drink seem like a long time to maintain that level of intoxication?

Then, after leaving Tempo, she is reported to have been so intoxicated she could barely stand up. So did the suspect drug her? Or had she perhaps taken something, while partying, which would account for her level of ongoing intoxication and disorientation, an hour and a half and more after leaving her friends at Camden Plaza Apartments?

And if she was so intoxicated/incapacitated that she could barely stand up, when she left Tempo with the suspect, how would she have been able to text her friends that message about being "lost"? (That text is on the timelines as being at 1:20 am, right?)

PS: Sorry, I guess I should have posted this in a different thread.

Remember, a witness places her leaving Tempo (the witness who claimed that Hannah was basically being held up in order to walk by JM) at 1:40 to 1:45 am. That's 20 to 25 minutes AFTER the 1:20 text. Assuming, of course, that the text was sent real-time at 1:20 am. And, that HG sent the text herself. Source is Coy Barefoot on insidecville.com

We can surmise that if she had been drugged, then 20 minutes after sending that last text (1:20) would be plenty of time to become nearly totally incapacitated (1:45). MOO - just going from the several posts here from posters that have been roofied.

I'm beginning to think that LE probably meant that Hannah was totally "intoxicated" around the 1:40 to 1:45 timeframe - and maybe less so during the earlier sightings on video? Again, IMO.

 

[cluciano63]

I am not even sure how they could possibly search landfills without having an idea of what area he was in, if he used a dumpster. I know in one case where a woman was found in a landfill (daughter was not) they had the husband on video using his work dumpster so they had an idea where that dumpster would go and on what day. (Jennifer and Abbey Blagg-and it still took six weeks, I think, to find her).

 

[klily444]

I am feeling discouraged by the search because there is no rhyme or reason; it seems they are searching everywhere they can within a certain mile radius of C'Ville. I was hoping LE was a little more confident in regards to where she could be, based on gas station cameras, witness reports, or anything pertaining to that night.

I am also not seeing much in the way of water searches, unless it is just not being reported. Why would he not throw her cell phone in a river? Or her for that matter? I understand the body would float if not anchored but it's very rural in a lot of those areas.

At this point, from what we have heard from Longo, they have no clue where she could be, which leads me to believe it is just as likely she could be far from C'Ville as it is that she could be close.

I wish, in this case, LE released just a little bit more about what they know in regards to where she could or could not be. Chasing buzzards isn't going to bring her home necessarily.

 

[jamicat]

There is a suspicion that LE has mentioned that the text was not sent at the time marked or written at that time. Those things do happen. The time of the text is well before she was seen in bad shape. No idea when it was written or sent or received, other than the time as LE can see it and some other possibilitites. It makes no sense that JM was able to take the cell phone from her at that time, 1:20 AM, and text that to whoever. Maybe JM told her that his car was there and that's where they were heading to get into it. A lot of possibilities. Really, since both parties, JM and Hannah were both drinking and not in full cognitive senses, anything is possible.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Reading this article today reminded me of something @ILOKAL mentioned in a closed thread on the arrest in HG's case.

“You're looking for the bread crumbs, for the pieces of the puzzle. So you're looking for the cell phone, the shoes. Anything that will lead us and point us in Hannah's direction,” said Berry.

BBM. So does this mean that they know her shoes were removed and not among other items they were recovered? It's unpleasant to think of ways they would know that or reasons why someone else would remove her shoes and not keep them but did have other items of hers from that night that they kept.

He was preoccupied with the feet of those two girls on the Mall before he met Hannah. Maybe he has some serious food fetish where he does something odd with them....?

 

[ChiaPet]

I wonder if LE has spoken to the farm hand, please consider calling. They may have talked about other locations, innocently, like where have you been.

As soon as I saw on the map where the farm was located next to the forest and the friend was into fishing and hiking (according to photos) I emailed a tip in. You never know, I'd rather give them too much info than find out later that something might have helped

 

[jamicat]

I am feeling discouraged by the search because there is no rhyme or reason; it seems they are searching everywhere they can within a certain mile radius of C'Ville. I was hoping LE was a little more confident in regards to where she could be, based on gas station cameras, witness reports, or anything pertaining to that night.

I am also not seeing much in the way of water searches, unless it is just not being reported. Why would he not throw her cell phone in a river? Or her for that matter? I understand the body would float if not anchored but it's very rural in a lot of those areas.

At this point, from what we have heard from Longo, they have no clue where she could be, which leads me to believe it is just as likely she could be far from C'Ville as it is that she could be close.

I wish, in this case, LE released just a little bit more about what they know in regards to where she could or could not be. Chasing buzzards isn't going to bring her home necessarily.

From the get-go, those who are familiar with the Charlottesville stated flat out that this was going to be a difficult search because the locale is so close to terrain that is just very condusive to hiding things, including bodies. Every square foot radiating outward from the point where Hannah was last seen has to be searched. DOgs brought to the mall area seemed to have tracked her scent well, right to outside the mall and then...nothing. Assuming that they were also canvassing the area around the mall just in case she got out of the car at anytime after leaving the mall, but that does not seem to be what LE thinks happened. Simply cannot search every bit of an area.

LE is asking everyone to check homes, property, because LE and search teams cannot go on private properties without permission. I know folks who live within a several mile radius from the mall, and they haven't been approached for their properties to be searched. IT is entirely possible that her body is behind someone shed, in someone's yard in the CHarlottesvill area, not necessarily even as far as the farm and country regions.

One can easily drop a body or a whole car in the swale that is covered with ground covering in my not large yard and it would not be easily visible. One would have to search carefully to find anything. My son lost a football in there, and it took quite the search to find it and all kinds of things (nothing ghastly) were there in the undergrowth. Yes, body could be dropped in there and without an odor could sit there for years. So it is with a lot of areas, but Charlottesville has a lot of terrain where things could be hidden. I am amazed at the job LE and the volunteer and professional search groups are doing. I so hope that they find her. However, it's also possible that JM went quite a distance to dump the body. Hopefully, his roommates were able to give LE an idea as to when JM came home that morning. That could limit the radius somewhat. But when you are talking adult roommates, they may have had no idea at all. I have had adult children living here and many times I could not say when or if they came home on a given night, or if they stopped by and left within a few hours or shorter time during the course of the wee hours.

Was it established whether JM did show up for the game/practice that Saturday morning for the team he coached?

It seems that the car and apt search did yield some things that LE seized as important to the case. So there may well be some evidence there. It just hasn't help find Hannah yet. I had hoped soil and mud analysis on the car would help, but the condition the car was kept, it probably had most every bit of Virginia and anywhere else JM had taken it on it.

 

[jamicat]

I am not even sure how they could possibly search landfills without having an idea of what area he was in, if he used a dumpster. I know in one case where a woman was found in a landfill (daughter was not) they had the husband on video using his work dumpster so they had an idea where that dumpster would go and on what day. (Jennifer and Abbey Blagg-and it still took six weeks, I think, to find her).

Agreed. Landfills are not easy search sites. I think LE must have looked on the surface of some, looked for evidence as to whether the car went to any of them, but finding anyone or anyting in a dump with no idea of locale is like looking for a needle in a haystack. There have been cases where LE has known approx where a body should be and it still could not locate it.

 

[ksj3]

Has anyone discussed the possibility that JM put her in a dumpster? Virginia has a ton of landfills and it's completely possible that she is in one of them. It'd be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I hope this isn't the case. I recently saw an article or discussion about this, let me see if I can find...

I was in the Barboursville area today and realized all of the dumpsters with easy nighttime access, some of which are for buildings that are largely unoccupied. No idea when garbage is picked up.

 

[Emaa]

I am feeling discouraged by the search because there is no rhyme or reason; it seems they are searching everywhere they can within a certain mile radius of C'Ville. I was hoping LE was a little more confident in regards to where she could be, based on gas station cameras, witness reports, or anything pertaining to that night.

I am also not seeing much in the way of water searches, unless it is just not being reported. Why would he not throw her cell phone in a river? Or her for that matter? I understand the body would float if not anchored but it's very rural in a lot of those areas.

At this point, from what we have heard from Longo, they have no clue where she could be, which leads me to believe it is just as likely she could be far from C'Ville as it is that she could be close.

I wish, in this case, LE released just a little bit more about what they know in regards to where she could or could not be. Chasing buzzards isn't going to bring her home necessarily.

BBM

That tells me they've narrowed down JLM's movements that night and in the week between when Hannah went missing and police confiscated his car.
I noticed in articles today a dog handler was interviewed and made a point to say her dog tracks live human beings. IMO searchers are using cadaver dogs and don't want to tip their hand to JLM and his attorney.

Police are holding their evidence very close to the vest and I'm glad they are.

 

[ksj3]

Was it established whether JM did show up for the game/practice that Saturday morning for the team he coached?

The school stated he was not at the practice Saturday morning (I'll look for the source, as I don't have it handy).

 

[surelock]

He was preoccupied with the feet of those two girls on the Mall before he met Hannah. Maybe he has some serious food fetish where he does something odd with them....?

Were Morgan's boots ever recovered?

 

[jamicat]

The school stated he was not at the practice Saturday morning (I'll look for the source, as I don't have it handy).

Was it that morning he did not show up or the following week Saturday morning? I know he did not show up after his car was seized.

 

[jamicat]

BBM

That tells me they've narrowed down JLM's movements that night and in the week between when Hannah went missing and police confiscated his car.
I noticed in articles today a dog handler was interviewed and made a point to say her dog tracks live human beings. IMO searchers are using cadaver dogs and don't want to tip their hand to JLM and his attorney.

Police are holding their evidence very close to the vest and I'm glad they are.

BBM/ I hope so. Does it seem that they have narrowed their focus and are looking intensely in certain areas? I got the feeling from the entreaties for people to search their properties and the locales, that they do NOT know where she could be. Unless they have some idea, finding her is really a stretch unless JM was very obvious where he dumped her.

 

[ksj3]

BBM

That tells me they've narrowed down JLM's movements that night and in the week between when Hannah went missing and police confiscated his car.

I wouldn't be quite that hopeful. One news story today mentioned that, statistically, victims are most often found within an 8-mile radius of where they went missing.

 

[ksj3]

Was it that morning he did not show up or the following week Saturday morning? I know he did not show up after his car was seized.

That morning, 9/13.

 

[Emaa]

Was it that morning he did not show up or the following week Saturday morning? I know he did not show up after his car was seized.

There was a member here whose son played on the team JLM coached. She asked her son if JLM was at practice or a meeting the next day and he said no.

 

[FindHG]

There was a member here whose son played on the team JLM coached. She asked her son if JLM was at practice or a meeting the next day and he said no.

Thank you!

 

[jamicat]

There was a member here whose son played on the team JLM coached. She asked her son if JLM was at practice or a meeting the next day and he said no.

The morning he picked up Hannah? That is, September 13?

 

[klily444]

BBM

That tells me they've narrowed down JLM's movements that night and in the week between when Hannah went missing and police confiscated his car.
I noticed in articles today a dog handler was interviewed and made a point to say her dog tracks live human beings. IMO searchers are using cadaver dogs and don't want to tip their hand to JLM and his attorney.

Police are holding their evidence very close to the vest and I'm glad they are.

I also heard a news story today where a man said "this is a rescue operation" (as opposed to a recovery operation). I found that strange. One would think that LE would WANT the defense to think that they KNOW he murdered her, but they seem to be communicating something other than that. I cannot figure out why LE is behaving this way.

My fear about them searching within a certain mile radius of C'Ville, is that it is a known statistic that most bodies are found within 25 miles of where the person was last seen. If they are following this rule, LE could have no clue where she is, but I hope that is not the case.