Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[makista]

My first post..
But would you go into that beat up orange car? I'm sorry, that is no taxi. LOL (unless he forced her, once they got to the car)

My speculation: He went up to her and said something like, "hey, that WG is following you. I'll help you shake him off." or something to that effect, to gain her trust.

See, that's what I don't get. She wasn't far from her apartment. ( The big question) Why would she get in that car? Was she forced? He must have bullied her.. but I can't see her getting in that car. LE has the car but have not released the results of her being in it. (fiber/hair samples- DNA)

He might have pulled out his taxi badge.. but she wasn't that far from her apartment.

 

[Nosy]

My first post..
But would you go into that beat up orange car? I'm sorry, that is no taxi. LOL (unless he forced her, once they got to the car)

My speculation: He went up to her and said something like, "hey, that WG is following you. I'll help you shake him off." or something to that effect, to gain her trust.

I really believe he drugged her. She is 5' 11" and was seen running on video within the hour. Suddenly, he is holding her up? My hypothesis is that he told her he would bring her into the safety of a bar, ordered her a drink, and drugged her. By then she wasn't coherent enough to say no to leaving with him.

 

[microfiche]

But this doesn't happen in a bubble...

I probably disagree with that; if you're talking bout how he was parented or raised, I don't believe that's necessarily a factor in something like this.

 

[4 Free Speech]

Where's her phone is the bigger mystery, too, fine points. TY

Didn't he also admit to his mother he bought her a drink? Where are the Tempo cams? Every restaurant and bar has cams these days. What time was it when she was last seen "by the door girl in coy's article"? This timeline doesn't jive with me either. @ HG I really appreciate your insightful posts.

Maybe she was crying out to her friends when she sent that last text. I still don't get why her friends let her leave the party alone. I doubt she would have given him her phone voluntarily. Young women are tied to their phones. Just my opinion and questions.

Rest in Peace Hannah and know that so many people cared..... prayers to the family at such a difficult time.

 

[keiki kahala]

See, that's what I don't get. She wasn't far from her apartment. ( The big question) Why would she get in that car? Was she forced? He must have bullied her.. but I can't see her getting in that car. LE has the car but have not released the results of her being in it. (fiber/hair samples- DNA)

He might have pulled out his taxi badge.. but she wasn't that far from her apartment.

If someone forced me, I would scream bloody murder. Possibly she was drugged as Nosy said. Or, he played Mr. Nice Guy and maybe even apologized about how his car looked, but promised to take her home since it wasn't safe for her to walk. So she complied. ???

 

[zer0pointe]

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this: Today I was heading to Richmond on I-64 and my "low fuel" light came on in the car. The very next exit, which I took, was the one that you would take to go to the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville. At the end of the exit ramp, there was a tall "spotlight" and two stationary VSP cars with lights flashing, blocking off portions of the road. If Jesse Matthews drove HG from the Downtown Mall to Route 29 (which is how you would travel to Old Lynchburg Road), this is the exit/entrance area that he would have taken. I was wondering if perhaps they were looking for something that HG may have thrown out of the car (or maybe she tried to escape and something fell out of the car?), as JM would have had to slow down a bit on the entrance ramp. Pure speculation on my part.

Good point... i would hope LE would scour the area between DTM & crime scene for tossed items - esp. on drivers side...

 

[microfiche]

If he is convicted for Morgans murder and Hannah's...by definition or the word serial killer, we only need one more...I firmly believe he intended to kill the Fairfax victim....( that would make it 3)....

I agree; if he isn't a serial killer now (technically, by definition), undoubtedly he would have become one had he not been caught. Had he been successful in murdering the victim in Fairfax, he would currently be a serial killer by definition. I'm pretty comfortable putting him in that category.

 

[makista]

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this: Today I was heading to Richmond on I-64 and my "low fuel" light came on in the car. The very next exit, which I took, was the one that you would take to go to the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville. At the end of the exit ramp, there was a tall "spotlight" and two stationary VSP cars with lights flashing, blocking off portions of the road. If Jesse Matthews drove HG from the Downtown Mall to Route 29 (which is how you would travel to Old Lynchburg Road), this is the exit/entrance area that he would have taken. I was wondering if perhaps they were looking for something that HG may have thrown out of the car (or maybe she tried to escape and something fell out of the car?), as JM would have had to slow down a bit on the entrance ramp. Pure speculation on my part.

It would be great if they could find her cell phone and look at the "my location". Google would have record of it with her phone number ( if the my location history was turned on) I can't IMAGINE what happened at the mall. JM might say that she od'ed but hopefully toxicology results can come from the remains. I don't know how it would be done after the vulture sighting... but maybe there is a test. It will be interesting to see the twists and turns in the 2005 case. The downtown mall is 15 minutes to Old Lynchburg.

 

[microfiche]

Just to clarify again, she's English, and in an English accent it's pronounced as two syllables: Gray-Um.

Gray-Um is also the Canadian pronunciation.

 

[4 Free Speech]

I really believe he drugged her. She is 5' 11" and was seen running on video within the hour. Suddenly, he is holding her up? My hypothesis is that he told her he would bring her into the safety of a bar, ordered her a drink, and drugged her. By then she wasn't coherent enough to say no to leaving with him.

I agree - it would take about 30 minutes for her to be incapacitated completely, that's about the drive time to the location where Hannah was found. I have experience this at a party, the scariest part is being able to "see what's going on, but no functionality available, no motor skills to talk or move". This would be consistent with a rapist, hence the name date rape drug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug

 

[Charlie Chan]

Not sure if that is also the exit you would take to get to a football game at UVA, but they were playing UNC there this afternoon. Around here, when UNC or Duke is playing, state highway patrol officers are stationed at main roads and intersections around the arenas for traffic control.

ETA..the game started about 12:15, so traffic control officers would probably have been in place by 10:00ish if it is like it is around here. JMO

Thank you....that is very possibly the reason for them being there. I think the game was in Q3 when I exited (I was listening on the radio). I guess the tall spotlight on the side of the road made me think that it was possibly related to Hannah.

 

[SteveP]

It would be great if they could find her cell phone and look at the "my location". Google would have record of it with her phone number ( if the my location history was turned on) I can't IMAGINE what happened at the mall. JM might say that she od'ed but hopefully toxicology results can come from the remains. I don't know how it would be done after the vulture sighting... but maybe there is a test. It will be interesting to see the twists and turns in the 2005 case. The downtown mall is 15 minutes to Old Lynchburg.

While LE probably still have not found her iPhone, we will most likely never know for sure until which time this goes to trial, if it does. I can't imagine that they would issue a press release stating that they have possession of it. And it is possible that they have had it since they searched his car and apartment, and they withheld that information for strategic reasons, and continued to ask people to be on the lookout for it. JMO

 

[makista]

Also, I am also wondering if she bought something from JM before the evening started. The reason I say that, is she makes one big circle and I know how these kind of guys are ( not that I know any sociopaths but I do know a few of BPD people- they are clingy and don't forget anything, while altering personalities) JMO, I think JM is territorial by his background and the way she wonders around the bar where he sees her it's almost like he waited the whole evening for her to show up if that makes sense. She didn't say anything during dinner with her friends.. so could it have been something as simple as purchasing football tickets from JM before the evening started?

It's almost as if, he already spotted ( talked) to her earlier day and was catching back up to her at the bar ( way later) As if he had waited all night to see he again (JMO)

 

[cluciano63]

Still confused about what goes where...sorry in advance? Just watched a show about the murder of Sandy Jeffers about eleven years ago in TN. She was abducted from her apartment and taken to the woods, where she was raped and killed. The killer, Aaron Skeen, said he killed her to cover up rape. (He was tracked via a video, cashing a check he had stolen from her, at where else, Walmart.) I feel like this is the intent of many serial rapists who turn to murder, especially with a surviving victim. He did not know her other than going to the bank where she worked and began stalking her. He did take them to the scene however. He took a plea for LWOP but later tried to back out of it, saying his lousy lawyer did not stress his use of anti-depressants enough...and lost his appeal.

Anyway it reminded me of Hannah in many ways. He did give a very chilling confession as to how when he had raped her, DNA popped into his mind at once, so he knew he had to kill her. Sometimes I do wonder if DNA has pushed some predators into murder...but jmo.

 

[cluciano63]

While LE probably still have not found her iPhone, we will most likely never know for sure until which time this goes to trial, if it does. I can't imagine that they would issue a press release stating that they have possession of it. And it is possible that they have had it since they searched his car and apartment, and they withheld that information for strategic reasons, and continued to ask people to be on the lookout for it. JMO

Maybe that is one thing they hope locals will keep an eye out for, when they said they still need tips...I hope locals are clear on phone not being found (if it hasn't). Few people pay attention to such details as we do. Jmo

 

[TheBunk]

I just have a hard time believing he was taking 5 year breaks between committing these awful crimes. Maybe there are examples of rapists/killers like this, but I'm not aware of them.

It's possible we may never know, but considering he raped and attempted to kill someone in Fairfax means that there could be potential victims anywhere he traveled in the past 10-15 years.

 

[SteveP]

Maybe that is one thing they hope locals will keep an eye out for, when they said they still need tips...I hope locals are clear on phone not being found (if it hasn't). Few people pay attention to such details as we do. Jmo

BBM...so very true. I sometimes think we must all be weird, but weird in a good way. I know sometimes I will talk to co-workers about these cases (have talked a lot about this one), and invariably one or two will say "how do you know all this stuff? You must live on that site."

 

[Foxfire]

If he is convicted for Morgans murder and Hannah's...by definition or the word serial killer, we only need one more...I firmly believe he intended to kill the Fairfax victim....( that would make it 3)....

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit-2
National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime
Critical Incident Response Group
Federal Bureau of Investigation

Serial Murder Symposium <09/2005>

II. Definition of Serial Murder

In the past thirty years, multiple definitions of serial murder have been used by law enforcement, clinicians, academia, and researchers. While these definitions do share several common themes, they differ on specific requirements, such as the number of murders involved, the types of motivation, and the temporal aspects of the murders. To address these discrepancies, attendees at the Serial Murder Symposium examined the variations in order to develop a single definition for serial murder.

The different discussion groups at the Symposium agreed on a number of similar factors to be included in a definition. These included:

• one or more offenders
• two or more murdered victims
• incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times
• the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder

In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events.

<sniped - read more>

 

[themom]

But some infants, despite the best care and most loving home, grow to be sociopathic adults. I don't think of it as an infant being evil. I think of it as badly written code the gene pool spits out at times, for reasons we may never ascertain. But the result is an individual that can't be trained or nurtured into emotional or psychological health because the basic building blocks were never there.

JMO

I would love to read more about this! Do you have a book title or link? As a parent, this idea is a little hard to swallow.
But you know what they say - ask 5 psychologists what makes a murderer, and you'll get 5 different answers...theories theories theories

 

[bakerlady]

My first post..
But would you go into that beat up orange car? I'm sorry, that is no taxi. LOL (unless he forced her, once they got to the car)

My speculation: He went up to her and said something like, "hey, that WG is following you. I'll help you shake him off." or something to that effect, to gain her trust.

If someone is drunk enough their inhibitions are pretty much gone so I think it's possible she went willingly. She certainly had an opportunity to alert someone at Tempo if she felt threatened.

I do wonder if they knew each other before that day.

I know plenty of nice people who drive crappy cars.