TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #3

[human]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...County-13-July-2015-2&p=11964375#post11964375

I'm bringing Katydid's post about respect over from the previous thread because she said exactly what I have wanted to say about "earning" respect. It concerns me that some believe that teachers and policemen as a group or as individuals have to "earn" respect. How can they even begin to do their jobs if the people they are dedicated to serving view them from the start with fundamental disrespect? The actions of bad teachers or bad cops, while a terrible betrayal of trust that needs to be dealt with decisively, should not cause disrespect for the entire profession, just as the criminal actions of some should not cause disrespect for an entire race. JMO

Until someone loses my respect by their actions, I respect everyone, no matter who they are or what position they occupy. Even if they do something to lose my respect, I will show them respect because they are fellow humans and because usually respect begets respect and rarely makes a bad situation worse. In any event, I still have self-respect because I behave respectfully. Wouldn't there be fewer problems in the world if everyone had this attitude? It begins with each one of us. JMO

As John Lennon sang: "All we are saying is give peace a chance."

Having a respectful attitude does not imply giving up legal rights. Feel free to agree to disagree. Peace. eace:

Yes, wouldn't it be loverly. But that is not reality.

If I am worthy of respect, I will get it. Not from everyone,though, because people have their own issues. I may look like their abusive ex mother in law. Who knows.

I cannot control anyone. I can only control how I react.

 

[Night-owl]

Seriously, are most people concerned about how to act with LE?

I only looked into it years ago because of what I saw and heard. Now more and more people are learning it may be a death sentence

I don't think it's at all bad to understand how to best behave in a situation with law enforcement. Keep your hands visible. Don't go diving for the glove box to get the registration, because the police don't know what it is you are going to come out with.

I'm a nice old lady who can communicate clearly, but last time I was pulled over, I was careful to state what I was doing the whole time, I.e. "My license is in my hand bag on the floor, I'll get it out for you..."

I don't envy the job officers have. They get a lot more abuse than most people in public facing jobs.

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[Night-owl]

Yes, wouldn't it be loverly. But that is not reality.

If I am worthy of respect, I will get it. Not from everyone,though, because people have their own issues. I may look like their abusive ex mother in law. Who knows.

I cannot control anyone. I can only control how I react.

Well, there is "worthy of respect" and then there is "I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and treat you as if you are worthy of respect". And there is "I'll respect your position, even though you personally are an idiot". There are few situations I can think of where it's to your advantage to treat someone disrespectfully.

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[human]

I don't think it's at all bad to understand how to best behave in a situation with law enforcement. Keep your hands visible. Don't go diving for the glove box to get the registration, because the police don't know what it is you are going to come out with.

I'm a nice old lady who can communicate clearly, but last time I was pulled over, I was careful to state what I was doing the whole time, I.e. "My license is in my hand bag on the floor, I'll get it out for you..."

I don't envy the job officers have. They get a lot more abuse than most people in public facing jobs.

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I don't think most people even think about LE and how to act unless they have had previous experience. I have had three speeding tickets in 40 some years. I think I have the record for friends and family.

LE is simply not a player in most people's lives.

 

[human]

Well, there is "worthy of respect" and then there is "I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and treat you as if you are worthy of respect". And there is "I'll respect your position, even though you personally are an idiot". There are few situations I can think of where it's to your advantage to treat someone disrespectfully.

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Like I said, I can only control myself. And no, I will not give certain people respect, It only encourages them to think they can get away with that behavior and tbat it is acceptable.

 

[Cubby]

My opinion differs from most who say only BE had to be respectful to the lawbreaker and she had no responsibility to return that respect to him.

I would have no problem with having BE stop me if I failed to turn on my signal when changing lanes.

I have always believed that civility is a two way street in all facets of life including encounters with LE.

If BE stopped me and ask me if I was okay, I would say 'I am fine officer and how are you today?" Then I would tell him "I know I am guilty of not turning my signal on when I improperly changed lanes." If he asked me to please put my cigarette out I would have said 'sure' and done so. I don't think that anything other than an pleasant exchange would have happened should I have been stopped by BE. Civil communication skills are needed with both parties. Had she remained civil none of this would have ever happened in the first place. And making her into some kind of hero because she more or less said F-U to the officer is like rewarding people for bad behavior, imo.

And this case has absolutely no evidence that it has anything to do with race yet time and time again when it is a white officer stopping an AA it always turns into one regardless. If he was biased against her race he certainly wouldn't have been going to issue her just a warning.

If a white female had acted like this I really don't think many would care. I sure wouldn't. I really don't care which race or gender acted the way SB did.......it was wrong and totally uncalled for. Anyone who watches Cops at all sees females of all races being combative screaming, cussing, and fighting police as they try to contain them. Some even kick the windows out of the police car or assault the officers.

As strangely as she was acting I can certainly understand why he would want her outside of her vehicle. Police officers are being shot during traffic stops now and are killed/targeted simply because they are cops. And a loose maxi certainly could conceal a weapon or even drugs.

Earlier this year in Atlanta two cops were murdered by a female who they had detained during a traffic stop.

Just because someone is a private citizen doesn't give them the right to be a pure out horse's *advertiser censored**. Civility should never be required to be one sided only. Its not about the power the cop has and its everything to do with having the same respect they are giving you when they stop you. And at first before she became all attitudinal he was very cordial and respectful toward SB. If she had had a calm demeanor throughout it would have remained that way.

The USSC has long upheld that an officer does not have to tell the suspect what they are arresting them far.

And so far no one has said BE broke any laws. For now he has been assigned to a desk duty because he broke protocol on the courtesy policy in place. In house policies are not laws.

IMO

Oh, I agree with you. BBM, thank you, thank you, thank you! Much better stated than I could have and that exact point is what I have been thinking for some time. While there are situations which are actually race related, race seems to have become the general sweeping statement which excuses people from their own behavior and consequences of their own actions. To blame everything on BE wipes SB clean of her responsibility for her behavior and choices. What happened to individual accountability and responsibility? SB was no marionette and BE no puppeteer so let's quit pretending they were..... SB is responsible for her own behavior and choices. Drugs and untreated depression had a lot to do with that....... Let's quit pretending the influence of addiction and depression had no baring whatsoever on SB's behavior and choices.

 

[Night-owl]

Like I said, I can only control myself. And no, I will not give certain people respect, It only encourages them to think they can get away with that behavior and tbat it is acceptable.

Sometimes, it's best to act as if you respect someone. Civilization depends on people's ability to behave in a manner contradictory to feelings.

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[arkansasmimi]

Is there video of her kicking him? Did any witnesses say she kicked him? I know HE said she did but...

I'm wondering if the kick came in the struggle as he was taking her down to the ground?

Officer Penny Goody saw it, you can hear it on the video.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Okay...but he didn't issue her a warning. He said he was just been going to issue her a warning. Instead, he placed her under arrest for an assault on his person that hadn't yet taken place. So, if it wasn't racially motivated - perhaps it was just her questioning his authority that led to her being arrested before even leaving the vehicle - but either way, I believe it a gross abuse of power.

An officer may not have to tell a citizen why they're under arrest but there still has to be probable cause that a crime has been committed. IMO, BE helped create probable cause with his own inflammatory comments. No matter how rude Sandy may have been (and that's subjective) - at no point did she physically threaten BE. The same, of course, cannot be said for him.

JMO

I am not sure if she still got the Warning ticket but I would say yes, because he went and got his clipboard from the hood, after SB finally was handcuffed. She was very argumentative and resisting can see a little to the right of screen and hear her. He brings it over and puts it on back of car and tells her to come over and and read... so to me that proves he had already filled out the Warning. But I have not seen it so JMHO from watching the video.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/...a-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/

Good article

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[JusticeforCarnel]

Also this article. http://www.attn.com/stories/2498/sandra-bland-arrest-lawful

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[Elley Mae]

I am not sure if she still got the Warning ticket but I would say yes, because he went and got his clipboard from the hood, after SB finally was handcuffed. She was very argumentative and resisting can see a little to the right of screen and hear her. He brings it over and puts it on back of car and tells her to come over and and read... so to me that proves he had already filled out the Warning. But I have not seen it so JMHO from watching the video.

I too have not seen the citation that was given to her, yet seems that the information on that would say more then what has been insinuated by some. Even though she was arrested for assault? no one has seen the citation and what the charges were. jmo idk

So the last thing that came out was the video showing her alive cause some on her side were saying she was dead in the photo. Thank goodness for surveillance cameras in the booking and jail that shows her alive. Dang people love to lie, unreal.

 

[TorisMom003]

Serious question: If the lit cigarette was such an issue that BE asked her to put it out while she was in the car, why demand that she get out of the car (with the lit cigarette still in her hand?) when she asked why? Reaching into the car to make her get out, while she has a lit cigarette also makes me question why BE was asking for her to put it out. Doesn't seem as if it were a safety issue/concern. If it were, then he would not put his arm into the car where the "weapon" is. Refusing to answer her, was that to put her in her place? To show that he, as a police officer, did not have to answer any of her questions?

This entire dashcam video should be used when training new officers as what NOT to do on a traffic stop.

MOO

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Seriously, are most people concerned about how to act with LE?

I only looked into it years ago because of what I saw and heard. Now more and more people are learning it may be a death sentence

With much respect,

It's becoming more and more important...people are getting misinformation about what their "rights" are...more people are getting more confrontational and angry, etc.

Like I mentioned on the previous thread, the local NAACP hosted an "educational" meeting with lawyers, local LE, churches, because they wanted the younger generation to get good information on what their rights were and how to handle traffic stops...very few came.

Sometimes, people aren't learning from home or school environments, what is acceptable. It doesn't hurt (at all!) to do some basic reminders. Much of society is, indeed, losing good manners and common sense. JMO JMO JMO, LOL

JMO.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Well, there is "worthy of respect" and then there is "I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and treat you as if you are worthy of respect". And there is "I'll respect your position, even though you personally are an idiot". There are few situations I can think of where it's to your advantage to treat someone disrespectfully.

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Just snickering...I love this!

 

[mysteriew]

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/brown-county/sheriff-brown-county-jail-inmate-found-dead-in-cell

Blands case has reminded me of Goldson. That one did not get national media, but to me appears very similar. Even has some video. Same sheriff's dept now has a a second suicide.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I swear that guy sounds like he is about to stroke out. I'm not sure he was fit to drive. The officer has a lot more patience than I do.

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I think I was married to the driver's TWIN BROTHER! wow. What a freak.

 

[IBsleuthin]

With much respect,

It's becoming more and more important...people are getting misinformation about what their "rights" are...more people are getting more confrontational and angry, etc.

Like I mentioned on the previous thread, the local NAACP hosted an "educational" meeting with lawyers, local LE, churches, because they wanted the younger generation to get good information on what their rights were and how to handle traffic stops...very few came.

Sometimes, people aren't learning from home or school environments, what is acceptable. It doesn't hurt (at all!) to do some basic reminders. Much of society is, indeed, losing good manners and common sense. JMO JMO JMO, LOL

JMO.

Well put. I was shocked to find out that what I've taught in our home about respect and manners is not being taught in many of the homes where we live.

I just thought it was a no brainer. I guess I'm the one with no brain.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I ***KNOW*** this is technically OT with regards to Sandra specifically, but here's a good article written up in our local paper about that NAACP/LE outreach meeting I mentioned just a few posts above.

There are some really good quotes from the panelists, and from those who came to learn, including a black college male that stated just what I have stated...the younger generations are NOT being taught how to handle these situations well all the time. (And as I mentioned before, but they didn't make the distinction in the article...they mentioned about 30 people attended...how about 12 of them were the panelists, not all 30 were there to learn or listen).

@@@@ Of interest, at least to me, is that when I went to search for the write up of the event, I saw numerous articles where NAACP and LE in various Texas towns were holding similar educational meetings across the state. That does show there is a need, and a desire to try to get citizens and LE to listen to the other side and learn by sharing knowledge and experiences. Not a bad thing

P.S. Sorry mods, since I know it's not about Sandra, but more of the bigger picture. Delete if necessary.


http://www.wacotrib.com/news/police...cle_4b569dc0-271e-59ae-8fad-5c04cf3bceca.html

 

[mysteriew]

With much respect,

It's becoming more and more important...people are getting misinformation about what their "rights" are...more people are getting more confrontational and angry, etc.

Like I mentioned on the previous thread, the local NAACP hosted an "educational" meeting with lawyers, local LE, churches, because they wanted the younger generation to get good information on what their rights were and how to handle traffic stops...very few came.

Sometimes, people aren't learning from home or school environments, what is acceptable. It doesn't hurt (at all!) to do some basic reminders. Much of society is, indeed, losing good manners and common sense. JMO JMO JMO, LOL

JMO.

My position has always been you respect law enforcement. If you cannot respect the man, then you respect the badge. The badge represents the laws we live under. If you find that you cannot or will not respect the man or the badge, then respect the gun the officer wears.