ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #7

[starfire]

REALLY?! I never knew they were routinely given polygraphs. Wow! Do you have a link? Thanks so much.

This is from the "Information for Sex Offenders" web page from the Idaho Department of Corrections:
Sex Offenders under supervision with IDOC must adhere to the State of Idaho registration requirements, strictly follow the Sex Offender Agreement of Supervision, have monthly contact with their probation and parole officer, and submit to all polygraph testing and treatment requirements. http://www.idoc.idaho.gov/content/p...er_management/information_for_ sex_ offenders

Some other info from other areas:

Under Pennsylvania law, polygraph results are not admissible at trial because of their unreliability. Despite that, the tests are now being used by probation officers across the state to supervise sex offenders. “It’s really the gold standard,” said Allegheny County Common Pleas Judge Jill E. Rangos, who presides over sex offender court. “It is the most accurate way to gauge if treatment is working.”
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/state/2015/05/17/Lie-dete/stories/201505030109

(from a DC Public Safety interview transcript) We have the instant offense history which addresses the offense of conviction in conjunction with the official version. We have the sexual history which looks at the entire sex offending behavior of the offender. Then we have the maintenance or the monitoring polygraph which is given to those offenders already on supervision and during the course of supervision to review issues concerning compliance with treatment, compliance with supervision and may adjust supervision controls on the offender should new information come to light.
http://media.csosa.gov/podcast/transcripts/2008/04/lie-detector-tests-for-sex-offenders/

Paroled sex offenders in California must take periodic lie detector tests and participate in more treatment programs in response to calls for stricter oversight in recent years. On Thursday, state officials said they are backing the new effort with millions in additional funding. The state spent about $8.5 million on contractors who provide polygraph exams, treatment programs and other sex offender services last year, and plans to more than double that budget to $18.3 million this year. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sex-647591-offender-state.html

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I'm not sure why an abductor would travel to the middle of nowhere campground to take a little boy, when the are millions of them out there. There is no way he would have known that Deorr would be unsupervised for a period of time.

 

[Cardinal47]

I'm not sure why an abductor would travel to the middle of nowhere campground to take a little boy, when the are millions of them out there. There is no way he would have known that Deorr would be unsupervised for a period of time.

I so agree. Unless it was somebody stopping by or visiting with the family at the campground.

 

[wenwe4]

Do we know if the RSO's are still under supervision by a probation or parole officer? If they are no longer under supervision (as a condition of their sentence) they are free to move and the Dept. of Corrections would have no more say in the matter. The RSO may still have to register their address but the conditions of their release may not be enforceable once their sentence has been completed. I think if there was foul play involved it would have to be someone familiar with the area but not necessarily someone living in the Leadore area (ie: Idaho Falls or surrounding area).

 

[allmybecsloveme]

No. I certainly do not think we could find him if professional search and rescue people trained on those conditions and living nearby cannot find a single clue. He isn't in the creek because it is tiny and they have searched and searched again. They have covered the reservoir to the best of their ability using all the tools they could find to use in order to search for him. Now...if he isn't there or was never there...the searchers have done their due diligence to put it into perspective. To find where he is...you have to know where he is not. He is not there, imo.

Exactly. He probably isn't there.

I added the creek in because I asked a couple of times how big it was and never got a response. Just the other day I finally saw someone say it wasn't very big, but you can never know for sure...hearsay isn't always right.

I honestly don't think he is there.

 

[allmybecsloveme]

NO. It is very hard to find a small child in the vast wilderness.

We had a log cabin in the Lassen National Forest area. We went every summer when I was growing up. Our cabin was 1000 feet from wilderness area. And there was a boy scout camp nearby. One summer day we were sitting by the lake and two very worried camp leaders hiked by and said they were missing a 9 yr old boy scout. he had been gone about an hour by then. We had 6 adults/teens in our group and we knew the area very well so we split up in twos and went in different directions.

My older brother and I were overwhelmed by how hard it was to try and truly scour every foot of our 'grid.' Do you keep going and try to cover ground or do you linger and look in every nook and cranny? It is real next to impossible to really 'clear' an area, imo.

[ he was found safely, but cold and hungry , the next morning.]

I'm aware. I grew up in the middle of nowhere. But a two year old...they should have found him by now is what I'm saying. He may he small, but he is two. Nooks and crannies. Link arms and get it done. If you can't find him, he's not there. If he is there, they've missed somewhere and it is probably pretty darn close by the site.

 

[Jules71]

Coming out of lurking, but did anyone notice in this video, that the news commentators name is "Todd Kunz"? Is that a typo/mistake?

Seems that Kunz is a popular name.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great observation! I hadn't noticed that.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Exactly. He probably isn't there.

I added the creek in because I asked a couple of times how big it was and never got a response. Just the other day I finally saw someone say it wasn't very big, but you can never know for sure...hearsay isn't always right.

I honestly don't think he is there.

There were good photos of the creek. It was 3 feet across and really not more than a wash as opposed to a real creek. The water looked like it did get elevated at different times due to the logged dams of debris in spots, but evidently it was quite low at the time DeOrr went missing.

 

[giagreen]

I'm just curious as to what others think. How far do you think a two year old could get in an hour?
I have a two year old and he's hell on wheels. I've been thinking a lot about it and if I set him down and let him go I think he could get pretty far. I mean his energy would be endless for at least two hours. All kids are so diffrent tho. I wonder if Deorr was a runner. I have a high energy runner. [emoji25]
He could of took off one way and realized he didn't know where his parents where and zig zagged all over the place. I think he could of gotten farther and more lost then we think. And at that point he would of been fair game to any type of animals wolves, mountain lions, ect.

 

[starfire]

I'm just curious as to what others think. How far do you think a two year old could get in an hour?
I have a two year old and he's hell on wheels. I've been thinking a lot about it and if I set him down and let him go I think he could get pretty far. I mean his energy would be endless for at least two hours. All kids are so diffrent tho. I wonder if Deorr was a runner. I have a high energy runner. [emoji25]
He could of took off one way and realized he didn't know where his parents where and zig zagged all over the place. I think he could of gotten farther and more lost then we think. And at that point he would of been fair game to any type of animals wolves, mountain lions, ect.

I know 2-year-olds can be quick, but I keep thinking about the "oversized cowboy boots" he was wearing. The PI said they were so big they kept falling off. And one of the grandfathers (the one who lives with him) indicated little Deorr is not a steady walker even on level ground. And the ground there looks so rocky, I can't picture him getting too far if he took the boots off or if they fell off -- seems it would be painful to walk (and if he did take them off, where are they?)

 

[starfire]

Exactly. He probably isn't there.

I added the creek in because I asked a couple of times how big it was and never got a response. Just the other day I finally saw someone say it wasn't very big, but you can never know for sure...hearsay isn't always right.

I honestly don't think he is there.

This video shows portions of the creek near the campsite.
[video=youtube;qvZbH7NSadA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvZbH7NSadA[/video]

 

[giagreen]

I know 2-year-olds can be quick, but I keep thinking about the "oversized cowboy boots" he was wearing. The PI said they were so big they kept falling off. And one of the grandfathers (the one who lives with him) indicated little Deorr is not a steady walker even on level ground. And the ground there looks so rocky, I can't picture him getting too far if he took the boots off or if they fell off -- seems it would be painful to walk (and if he did take them off, where are they?)

Even if someone picked him up you'd think they'd fall off.

 

[lauriej]

Vilt is saying they should have put out an Amber Alert. Does he not understand the requirements for an Amber Alert? Seems like we go over them every time a child goes missing. Someone takes the time to explain what information has to be established, but you'd think he would know!

And "turned up missing" always seems contradictory to me, not that it matters.

BBM

--in the P.I.'s earlier interview..

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/08/kunz-family-investigator-everything-points-to-an-abduction/

--@3:06

reporter: why wasn't an amber alert issued?

P.I.Vilt: It didn't fit the entire criteria for an amber alert, there was no vehicle they could give, no, mother, father, or suspect that they could name, as "being with" so this is why it didn't fir the criteria.

 

[lauriej]

Yes and I have said several times it has been written this was grandpa's favorite camping spot so lots of people must have known he would be there and who he would be with.

Retirees talk to their buddies, family and just about anybody that they can get to listen.

I can't really see abduction unless it was somebody that walked into camp and those present saw such person, turned around and both them and DeOrr were gone.

Remember they aren't telling much of anything.

MOO

--sorry, I must have missed that, where has it been said this was Great Grandpa's favourite spot?

--all I know is that deorr's dad said that he'd never been there before....


http://pdfsr.com/pdf/parentsofdeorrkunztranscript.pdf
--parents of Deorr interview transcript.
<modsnip>


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358
UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out

--@ 0.35

Deorr Sr: "Uh, we searched for, after about 20 minutes, and, in a dead panic, not knowing where he was, and in such a small area, and not knowing, never being there, I knew I was in trouble."

 

[desert-blue]

--sorry, I must have missed that, where has it been said this was Great Grandpa's favourite spot?

TBC (or someone using her FB account) posted that the camping spot was a family favorite when she was growing up but that she and her father had not been there in 27 years.

 

[lauriej]

http://m.localnews8.com/news/private...ddler/34678944

Vilt, a former Kunz family friend who now works as a private detective in Montpelier, was critical of the Lemhi County Sheriff's office for failing to follow up on potential leads. One of them was a tip from a woman who said she saw a boy matching Kunz's description near Caldwell, Idaho. The boy was with a man in an older model tan Buick with Oklahoma license plates and had taken a ride with the woman to get gas.

--I don't get it, who took the ride w/ the woman to get gas?

http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-detective-joins-search-for-missing-toddler/34678944

--video @ link:

reporter: "He (P.I.) questions why the Sheriff's Office never followed through on the tip about the Buick he rec'd this morning."

--P.I. Vilt then says that he's called the dept. and they haven't returned his calls.

--how could the Sheriff's office have followed through on this tip that HE rec'd today, if it came in to HIS tip line?

--and why did this person wait a month w/ this tip of the sighting?

 

[drjones]

Regarding the PI comments on issuing an Amber Alert, it seems to me that his first comments are made before he is aware of the tip about the sighting of a car and suspect. So in the first interview;

[video=youtube;-78P5ayOlRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-78P5ayOlRc[/video]

At 3 minutes he gives the reasons why the criteria for an Amber Alert were not met. This is from the 11th.

In the next interview on the 12th it says that he received the tip about the car sighting that morning.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/private-detective-joins-search-for-missing-toddler/34678944

The sighting meets all of the criteria for issuing an Amber Alert except for possibly the first one - that there is a proven abduction, but I don't know how flexible they are on that point. (maybe someone else does?) I mean clearly there is a missing child and abduction is quite possible but it is not "proven".

 

[drjones]

^I did not mean to embed that, I don't know why it happened. Hopefully it is ok.

 

[katydid23]

I know 2-year-olds can be quick, but I keep thinking about the "oversized cowboy boots" he was wearing. The PI said they were so big they kept falling off. And one of the grandfathers (the one who lives with him) indicated little Deorr is not a steady walker even on level ground. And the ground there looks so rocky, I can't picture him getting too far if he took the boots off or if they fell off -- seems it would be painful to walk (and if he did take them off, where are they?)

YES. I really thought his boots would have been found if he had just wandered off, or fell in water or was taken by animals. In any of those instances it seems like his boots would have been found by now.

 

[1&2&3]

Tonight I was reading backward to catch up on the new happenings from yesterday. So they may have arrived at the camp on Thursday night now? Well, that totally changes the story for me. Deorr may hare awakened first, got out of the tent/camper and gone wandering on his own. GGF and Friend took off in the other car to go the new campsite and left the 3 Deorr family at the Thursday site. An accident happened, ir they couldn't find Deorr so after a while they went to the new campsite.

Has any ground searches been done where they spent Thursday night? That area would be a good spot to check at this point Just my speculation. He does not appear to be in the first area they searched. However, this Thursday nite at another campsite is just coming out.