TN TN - Dennis Martin, 6, Great Smoky Mountains National Park, 14 June 1969

[Sutton]

I've often thought about this case, but for some reason, never found this whole thread on here before today. A few thoughts -

- Poaching ginseng from national parks has been illegal as far back as the early 70's, possibly earlier. It's a federal offense, it's not like you get a $15 ticket you have to pay. In the late 70's, one single ginseng root sold for $64,000, not adjusted for inflation. I absolutely believe the poacher did find bones and did wait until 1985 to report it. He had *nothing* to personally gain by telling anyone earlier and everything to lose. Even if he wasn't prosecuted for poaching, "coming out" with the find would have gotten him on the radar of every ranger and a large number of park guests, making sure that he'd have no chance to hit the jackpot with ginseng roots. In his mind, the boy was already gone, his prompt reporting of the find wasn't going to bring him back. I'm guessing profit is more important than good feelings for most poachers.

- The family theory of abduction has always, to me, felt sort of half-hearted. Like they were going through the motions, but deep in their hearts, they knew it wasn't an abduction. Why? To take the responsibility the kids may have felt towards Dennis' disappearance away from them. If it was an abduction, there may have been nothing the other kids could have done to prevent it, but if it wasn't, it meant the older kids weren't looking out for Dennis like they may have been told to do.

- Animals, even herbivores like deer, will chew on bones. So not only is there the chance that the bones were moved, but it's likely that over the years, animals of all sorts would have completely consumed the bones to the point that only small fragments would remain, which would then be impossible to ever spot in leaf matter or even fairly short grass.

- I'd be surprised if Dennis survived beyond that first night, even if he didn't get killed in some sort of fall. He was a child in a short sleeve shirt (likely made of cotton) and I'm assuming shorts, but even if he was in pants, it gets chilly in the mountains at night. Combined with a very soaking rain that night, the chances of him not getting hypothermia would be slim to none.

- William Martin, the father of Dennis, died last year. http://www.gentrygriffey.com/obits/bill-martin/

The ginseng hunter's account makes SO much more sense now that you've stated the potential risk and reward.

There are many animals in that area that will gnaw on bones, but I did not know deer would. I wonder if they get nutrients from the bones or if they do it to sharpen their teeth or if there is some other reason...

 

[ultraviolet]

The ginseng hunter's account makes SO much more sense now that you've stated the potential risk and reward.

There are many animals in that area that will gnaw on bones, but I did not know deer would. I wonder if they get nutrients from the bones or if they do it to sharpen their teeth or if there is some other reason...

IIRC, herbivores chew on bones for the minerals in them. Rodents like squirrels, mice and chipmunks do so to grind their teeth - it's not to "sharpen" them, really, but because their teeth grow throughout their life and if they don't grind them down, they will actually grow up into their mouth, locking their mouth shut.

Something else I had forgotten in my previous post regarding the search -

I'd read previously that they didn't start "searching for dead" by watching vultures, etc for "several weeks." IMO, it's absolutely no surprise that they couldn't find anything by this point. Even if he had survived longer than the first night, he wouldn't have been able to survive alone in any state for weeks. I have experienced a number of times when a deer has been hit by a car and dies on property my family owns in rural upstate South Carolina. The turkey vultures (and coyotes and maybe other animals I haven't seen with my own eyes) find the carcass in a matter of hours and within a 36 hour period, unless you knew exactly where the carcass was to go out and stand right next to it, nothing is visible in grasses that are under 8" tall. I've never smelled any traditional "rotting flesh" smells from even a foot away, because the animals clean everything so thoroughly, there isn't much left to stink. The deer, needless to say, are far larger than a 6 year old child. The time to search by watching vultures would have been, IMO, within the first 2 days of him going missing.

 

[Satch]

The family theory of abduction has always, to me, felt sort of half-hearted. Like they were going through the motions, but deep in their hearts, they knew it wasn't an abduction. Why? To take the responsibility the kids may have felt towards Dennis' disappearance away from them. If it was an abduction, there may have been nothing the other kids could have done to prevent it, but if it wasn't, it meant the older kids weren't looking out for Dennis like they may have been told to do.

Greetings,

Others also believed the possibility that Dennis, who had special educational needs, sadly may have been being picked on by the older boys and told in a horrifying pun to "Get Lost." Some people believe that the story about the kids telling him to go the other way so his bright red shirt could not be spotted was fabricated by the kids to lesson the horror and pain they must have felt that day and had to live with for the rest of their lives.

Could they tell the older adults such a shocking truth? I think the children may have played hide and seek games before. However, given the family's hunting and camping experience, the other kids may have been responsible for watching Dennis, and did not follow through on that responsibility.

I am not convinced that some nine-year old kids could easily and logically vocalize to other kids, "Go the other way Dennis, because your shirt doesn't camouflage you well enough." I used to actually believe the story of the older kids telling Dennis to go the other way. However, a WS poster talked about the above situation. The more I think about it, this was a failed responsibility on the part of the other kids, failing to stay together, not making sure that Dennis was with them, in their plan to sneak up behind the adults, that turned to tragedy.

Satch

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

Poaching ginseng from national parks has been illegal as far back as the early 70's, possibly earlier. It's a federal offense, it's not like you get a $15 ticket you have to pay. In the late 70's, one single ginseng root sold for $64,000, not adjusted for inflation. I absolutely believe the poacher did find bones and did wait until 1985 to report it. He had *nothing* to personally gain by telling anyone earlier and everything to lose. Even if he wasn't prosecuted for poaching, "coming out" with the find would have gotten him on the radar of every ranger and a large number of park guests, making sure that he'd have no chance to hit the jackpot with ginseng roots. In his mind, the boy was already gone, his prompt reporting of the find wasn't going to bring him back. I'm guessing profit is more important than good feelings for most poachers.

It's never been clear to me if this individual had actually found ginseng or was just searching for it the day he allegedly spotted what he thought was a child's remains. If he had found ginseng that day, he could have hidden it away and then alerted the authorities. If he had not, he could have just gone ahead and contacted them. Either way, I don't think he had to account for his presence or explain why he was at a national park that is open to anyone. I still wonder if he was so selfish to not report what he had seen and thought doing so would prohibit him from using the area for future ginseng searches, why did he eventually do so - particularly when it didn't make much difference those many years later?

 

[kline]

I just saw a documentary about this case.
There seem to be a lot of very strange circumstances surrounding this case.

 

[Satch]

I just saw a documentary about this case.
There seem to be a lot of very strange circumstances surrounding this case.

Greetings Kline!

Thanks for sharing this information. How was the documentary? Was there any general consensus of what happened to Dennis from the documentary, and what were the reasons for that consensus?

Satch

 

[Tulessa]

If this has already been posted, please remove.

[video=youtube;SlDTIXJjZoI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlDTIXJjZoI[/video]

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

The story of "wildmen" residing in the Smoky Mountains has been previously noted on this topic. While this may sound interesting - especially in some audio form as provided here - I seriously question about it taking place in 1969 or even many years before that especially in explaining how Dennis Martin disappeared. If a man was involved, I think it would be one as is seen every day in the cities, suburbs and rural areas of this county. I have written before that it's possible this young man could have been the victim of a human predator, but I don't think it was a "wildman".

 

[1southernmama]

We very recently hiked in this area and noted how fast some of the streams are, and especially with heavy rain that night. My family canoes and kayaks south of this area as well, and I can see how a small child could get sucked under rocks/ submerged trees or be washed downstream very quickly. I believe that is what happened.

 

[dogperson]

I've always believed this was an accidental death, that Dennis got lost and kept going frantically in the wrong direction or that he was swept into the water. I live not too far from this park and my husband and I vacation there usually about once a year, and it would be dangerous territory for a small child lost in the woods.

 

[Magneto]

I was reading this case in David Paulides's second book missing 411 you don't send The Green Berets in to the National Park for a missing boy interesting why the FBI agent investigating this case and many others in this region committed suicide? what did he Know? I believe whatever took Dennis Martin is not human and too hard comprehend

 

[Satch]

I was reading this case in David Paulides's second book missing 411 you don't send The Green Berets in to the National Park for a missing boy interesting why the FBI agent investigating this case and many others in this region committed suicide? what did he Know? I believe whatever took Dennis Martin is not human and too hard comprehend

The problem is the following,

An animal attack would leave something, bones, skull structures. The story of the Ginseng hunter finding the bones of a small child years after Dennis went missing was never verified. But he did tell the Ranger about it in 1985 and they re-searched, finding nothing. If the story is true and those bones are Dennis', I believe he took a wrong turn in the park, met up with injury, or drowning, or fell in a hole or somewhere which he could not have escaped. He was not dressed for the cold nights on the mountains, and if he survived at all, it was probably not beyond that first night.

Remember that the adults started calling Dennis' name about five minutes after searching for him. It's possible that he as a joke on the adults Dennis, ventured further and further away from them, and either very quickly met with a tragic fate, or got lost and slowly met a tragic fate. I think Dennis perished in the mountains and died of exposure to the elements.

Satch

 

[STANDREID]

It is believed there are no longer any mountain lions in the park so, excluding them, I see 5 other animals in the territory that could kill and consume a 6-year-old boy-Gray wolf, red wolf, black bear, wild hogs and domestic dogs.

 

[Magneto]

The problem is the following,

An animal attack would leave something, bones, skull structures. The story of the Ginseng hunter finding the bones of a small child years after Dennis went missing was never verified. But he did tell the Ranger about it in 1985 and they re-searched, finding nothing. If the story is true and those bones are Dennis', I believe he took a wrong turn in the park, met up with injury, or drowning, or fell in a hole or somewhere which he could not have escaped. He was not dressed for the cold nights on the mountains, and if he survived at all, it was probably not beyond that first night.

Remember that the adults started calling Dennis' name about five minutes after searching for him. It's possible that he as a joke on the adults Dennis, ventured further and further away from them, and either very quickly met with a tragic fate, or got lost and slowly met a tragic fate. I think Dennis perished in the mountains and died of exposure to the elements.

Satch

A total of 13,240 man hours were expanded on the search for Dennis and 200 helicopters over 1400 people where searching for him I just think if he wondered off the canines used in the search would have pick up his scent and there was no blood trails to point to an animal attack

another family where there in the area downhill from where Dennis was last seen the key family hears a scream and sighting of a hairy figure what look liked was carrying a young child for some reason the FBI did not want this information to past on the Martin family

 

[Magneto]

When you are looking at this case here are a few true facts that you need to keep in mind

1 - Dennis disappears in meadow at National Park within fifty feet of parents

2 - Searchers scour park for weeks with no results

3 - Eighty Armed Green Beret Special Forces brought into part to search

4 - Strange Screams reported by a family in park

5 - Something similar to a dark-figured man is seen running through the forest in park carrying something over shoulder

6 - Psychic tells of seeing boy in cave-like setting

7 - Another Psychic tells of seeing a boy possibly in a tree

8 - No trace of Dennis has ever been found

9 - 11 people have disappeared under unusual circumstances at or near this park

10 - The Lead FBI agent on this case commits suicide

 

[STANDREID]

It is believed there are no longer any mountain lions in the park so, excluding them, I see 5 other animals in the territory that could kill and consume a 6-year-old boy-Gray wolf, red wolf, black bear, feral pigs and domestic dogs.

There are also coyotes in the park and, although very rarely, they have also killed people so that could possibly be a 6th animal on the list.

 

[Satch]

My problem with an animal attack,

Is that animals, such as those described in the park would not eat their whole victims as to not be blood and bone evidence. They never found blood. A ginseng hunter claimed to find the bones of a small child several years later, but for fear of being prosecuting for hunting ginseng, did not report the bones till years later. When his claim was investigated, I believe 1985, nothing was found. Never has been solid forensic evidence of psychics successfully locating missing persons.

I think Dennis got lost/injured and died of exposure, but I also think that the shoe print that resembled a child and the scream that Harold Key, the man camping with his family on the day Dennis vanished, along with the siting of the unkempt man, should have been examined more closely.

Satch

 

[Magneto]

My problem with an animal attack,

Is that animals, such as those described in the park would not eat their whole victims as to not be blood and bone evidence. They never found blood. A ginseng hunter claimed to find the bones of a small child several years later, but for fear of being prosecuting for hunting ginseng, did not report the bones till years later. When his claim was investigated, I believe 1985, nothing was found. Never has been solid forensic evidence of psychics successfully locating missing persons.

I think Dennis got lost/injured and died of exposure, but I also think that the shoe print that resembled a child and the scream that Harold Key, the man camping with his family on the day Dennis vanished, along with the siting of the unkempt man, should have been examined more closely.

Satch

how realiable was that ginseng hunter claim it might be true but it does not hold up if the place was searched in 1985 and the bones where not found maybe the FBI or park officials some other authority removed them? because they did want to explain how they got their, they certainly did not want the Martin family to know about Harold Key It still dose not explain why armed green Barents where in the area they don't look for missing people, children, etc it would be too over top for 80 armed green Barents to go hunting for mountain lions - funny enough the area they went into was the area Harold Key told the inverstigators what he seen and what he heard

as for the mediums / psychics I am not saying they are right or have mention anything of importance there is one case where a girl went missing the searchers could not find her a medium said she is high up not on ground when they found the girl alive she was unconscious high up in a tree not saying mediums are always gonna be right but should not discarded

 

[neesaki]

My problem with an animal attack,

Is that animals, such as those described in the park would not eat their whole victims as to not be blood and bone evidence. They never found blood. A ginseng hunter claimed to find the bones of a small child several years later, but for fear of being prosecuting for hunting ginseng, did not report the bones till years later. When his claim was investigated, I believe 1985, nothing was found. Never has been solid forensic evidence of psychics successfully locating missing persons.

I think Dennis got lost/injured and died of exposure, but I also think that the shoe print that resembled a child and the scream that Harold Key, the man camping with his family on the day Dennis vanished, along with the siting of the unkempt man, should have been examined more closely.

Satch

I think so too.

 

[corrinalee81]

I'm not going to try to speculate or guess at what happened to Dennis. I honestly think that whatever happened to Dennis, will more in likely never been known. People speculate and guess, but that doesn't mean they are right or that it's fact. Too many things just don't make sense and if it was an animal, there would definitely be signs of the incident. As for a human, not sure of that either, you would think if someone grabs a child, that child would scream at the time they're snatched up, which the family would have heard. I honestly have no clue as to what happened to this young boy. It's definitely a mystery to me.

I am very sad to hear that his Father died, never knowing what happened to his son. My condolences to the family members for all the loss and heartache they have had to endure.