France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #2

[FindHG]

Secretary Kerry spoke briefly after short meeting with President Hollande, here to show solidarity re-affirming highest level of cooperation. Will take significant and concrete steps to work more closely together step up response against Daesh, will be 'hit at the core.' Daesh defeat-able. France will bounce back. [notes]

Russian FSB offers 50 million dollar reward for ID of the perps of plane who downed the plane with an IED attack. No attribution to any group yet from any official source anywhere.

http://www.france24.com/en/

 

[cottonweaver]

New research has shown that a quarter of "jihadis' are recruited through familial connections ( brother, father etc) not through the internet as such

All this offers an important window into the nature of recruitment and radicalisation. Both are often understood to be processes which involve someone who is previously “normal” being “brainwashed” by some outside influence that turns them into someone who behaves abnormally. An alternative explanation for how people are drawn into militancy blames propaganda, via the internet.

The facts, however, contradict this. Terrorism, like any activism, is highly social, only its consequences are exceptional. People become interested in ideas, ideologies and activities, even appallingly destructive ones, because other people are interested in them.

“Recruitment is basically by peers. It is kinship and friendship which really matter, much more than religion or locality or whatever else. There is a strong group phenomenon,” said Dr Rik Coolsaet, a Belgian expert who has studied local militant networks in the country.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/jihad-by-family-terrorism-relatives-isis-al-qaeda

 

[cottonweaver]

Russia: Plane brought down by homemade explosive device
AP
Nov. 17, 2015 3:59 AM EST

And a huge $50m dollar reward for information on this attack

"Russian news agency Interfax reports that the FSB is offering an enormous $50m reward for information that leads to the capture of those who planned the bomb attack."

 

[cottonweaver]

A woman who rented a house to Brahim Abdeslam, one of the attackers in Paris on Friday night named by French prosecutors, has described the men she met as “nice and proper.”

She told French broadcaster Europe 1 that a group of men rented her house in the Parisian suburb of Bobigny on Tuesday 10 November, three days before launching a wave of attacks on the French capital.

They were very kind. There was nothing noticeable about them. They were nice, proper, well dressed.
They didn’t have beards and were wearing normal clothes.
They all said they worked for a Belgian company and were in Paris on business.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...ench-police-launch-fresh-raids-overnight-live

If we need more eyes and ears on the ground , should we as a community all be more suspicious and questioning - naturally these attacks are rare and a lot of blameless people would end up being reported as suspicious and possibly be an outlet for racists but.............what do people think?

 

[FindHG]

France Launches New Airstrikes on ISIS in Syria
By AURELIEN BREEDEN and KIMIKO DE FREYTAS-TAMURANOV. 17, 2015

"According to the ministry, the command center that was destroyed included “one of Daesh’s headquarters,” "
...
"The interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, told France Info radio that the police had conducted 128 raids overnight against terrorism suspects."
...
115,000 police officers and troops had been deployed across the country “to ensure the protection of the French.”

http://www.franceinfo.fr/emission/l-interview-politique/2015-2016/bernard-cazeneuve-17-11-2015-07-46

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/operations/actualites/chammal-nouveau-raid-contre-daech-a-raqqah

Stories of those who died in the Paris attacks
By KATE BRUMBACK, JENNIFER PELTZ and GOSIA WOZNIACKA
Nov. 17, 2015 2:28 AM EST


A car found in the 18 Arnd, according to AFP
1 arrest in Toulouse who had pump shot gun, according to Le Monde
http://www.france24.com/en/




http://www.lemonde.fr/


French police in nationwide raids as planes bomb IS stronghold
AFP
49 minutes ag

 

[cottonweaver]

News from Serbian border officials - Bizarre find, but shows how many fake passports with almost identical data are circulating . I must be missing something - how do 2 people carrying the same details/passport manage not to trigger some kind of alert at the second border control? (ie They have to travel through borders at Macedonia or Greece along the way, if they both arrived as refugees to Greece?)

Serbian police have arrested a man carrying a Syrian passport with the same details as one found near the body of one of the Paris suicide bombers, police sources told the Guardian.

The passport bears the same name and details – but a different photograph – as the document found near one of the men who attacked the Stade de France.
Serbian officials said that they believe both passports are fake, but added that they are working with French investigators to establish the origin of the documents.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...with-syrian-passport-matching-paris-attackers

 

[wendiesan]

Japan will never let in refugees, especially Islamic ones, I'm pretty sure of that.

Possibly. The burden of housing, feeding, relocating, and educating immigrants at a time when the job market is shrinking may not be one which the Japanese government sees as beneficial to the population as a whole. Or they have seen the negative results of allowing unlimited immigration, however well meaning the intentions.

For many reasons, though immigration policy in Japan remains a notoriously thorny issue. One underlying factor is Japan’s traditional homogeneity. Currently, foreigners account for only 2 percent of the country’s population; many are ethnic Koreans who have been residing in Japan since Korea was a Japanese colony.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his conservative Liberal Democratic Party have been traditionally cold on the idea of accepting more foreigners, citing concerns such as a higher crime rate and fewer job opportunities for Japanese. According to a poll conducted by the daily Yomiuri Shinbun in April last year, a majority of Japanese appear to agree. The survey found that of 1,512 recipients, 54 percent opposed bringing in more foreigners, while only 34 percent receptive to the idea.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/japans-immigration-reluctance/

 

[Sonya610]

Hi. Do you have a link supporting that mostly men are seeking asylum?

And your compassion for humanity is astounding. Well done!

MSM links have been posted and then deleted for some reason. Pew research has announced 72% are men most of fighting age. All photos of large crowds clearly shows the vast majority are young men.

 

[FindHG]

The Latest: France seeks military and other help from EU

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a1ff...test-israeli-minister-links-ban-paris-attacks

also find raw of Minute of Silence across Paris.


http://www.france24.com/en/20151117-live-france-pounds-raqqa-investigation-europe-belgium
LIVE: France pounds Raqqa as investigation focuses closer home

 

[steelman]

MSM links have been posted and then deleted for some reason. Pew research has announced 72% are men most of fighting age. All photos of large crowds clearly shows the vast majority are young men.

This may be exactly how ISIS is planning on infiltrating the U.S. with their sleeper cells.................and Obama refuses to see it or even entertain the idea. I think he needs a brain scan, I've seen seniors with both dementia and alzheimer's that have more common sense.

 

[Sonya610]

News from Serbian border officials - Bizarre find, but shows how many fake passports with almost identical data are circulating . I must be missing something - how do 2 people carrying the same details/passport manage not to trigger some kind of alert at the second border control? (ie They have to travel through borders at Macedonia or Greece along the way, if they both arrived as refugees to Greece?)

I don't understand the focus on passports. I thought they didn't have to have ANY paperwork showing national origin seeing as how they are refugees? I read passports and other identity papers primarily from citizens of various peaceful countries were littering the fields around the check points. They may be carrying a new smart phone to stay in contact with their families back home but due to the nature of war passports and paperwork are not required.

As far as Greece is concerned.... I can see them shuffling the refugees through and OUT of the country as fast as possible. Why should they house/feed them? Germany invited them and caused the migration so perhaps they believe Germany can deal with the problem and the duplicate passports.

 

[steelman]

(In Red) Currently 26 states are refusing to admit Syrian refugees.

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/16/9746456/map-syrian-refugees-governors


As of this morning, there are a total of 26 U.S. States that have notified Washington that they refuse to accept any refugees. The vast majority of them are in the southern half of the country.

I think it's safe to say that 26 number may turn into 36 by the end of the day.

 

[cottonweaver]

I don't understand the focus on passports. I thought they didn't have to have ANY paperwork showing national origin seeing as how they are refugees? I read passports and other identity papers primarily from citizens of various peaceful countries were littering the fields around the check points. They may be carrying a new smart phone to stay in contact with their families back home but due to the nature of war passports and paperwork are not required.

As far as Greece is concerned.... I can see them shuffling the refugees through and OUT of the country as fast as possible. Why should they house/feed them? Germany invited them and caused the migration so perhaps they believe Germany can deal with the problem and the duplicate passports.

Yes seems they don't have to have passports, but some do have purchase them clearly. Maybe be if you are a jihadist it confers some extra credibility to ensure you get through? ( ie there must be an advantage to the $2K spend on one.)

As for Greece and speed of re-location - I was only suggesting that presumably a computerised system is used so that anyone with a passport or anyone who is given papers is logged into a database which is accessible to the next country of passage as they make their way through Europe. Therefore, it seems logical that the computer system would alert to the effect "This person has already entered twice from Syria" etc.

As for refugees I am just as concerned as all of you on here, but I am also mindful that my government and the previous one- who I supported at the time- had some part to play in the de-stabilisation of this area.

No one can, it seems can stop or has a willingness to stop the traffickers and boat owners of Turkey from setting sail across to Greece. Why is that?
Yes wouldn't it be easy if a culturally appropriate country such as Turkey said - "Yes we will create some refugee cities" for the next few years so that all the refugees could camp there awaiting the resolution in Syria.....
How long would they be camped there? IDK, I certainly don't have the answers.

 

[Sonya610]

This may be exactly how ISIS is planning on infiltrating the U.S. with their sleeper cells.................and Obama refuses to see it or even entertain the idea. I think he needs a brain scan, I've seen seniors with both dementia and alzheimer's that have more common sense.

Plus background checks (even if possible) are only a short term fix. Apparently many become radicalized AFTER being raised in a Western country.

 

[Sonya610]

Therefore, it seems logical that the computer system would alert to the effect "This person has already entered twice from Syria" etc.

It would seem logical if the EU actually CARED about screening the masses crossing their borders.

Same thing happens in the US and our computers could catch it, folks enter illegally multiple times and nothing is done about it simply because the leaders do not WANT to do anything about it.

 

[cottonweaver]

Plus background checks (even if possible) are only a short term fix. Apparently many become radicalized AFTER being raised in a Western country.

Yes, we have a massive problem, even if just set aside the refugee issue for a moment - "they" are already here

How much are we all going to spend on this, considering it is still a small albeit terrible risk? I see in France this morning they are debating ID checks on trains - imagine the expense and delays on inter-city travel.

France’s environment minister Ségolène Royal has announced she will ask French rail operator SNCF to investigate installing security controls at train stations.

“I asked SNCF to look into putting into place these measures so that there are the same type of checks as there are for getting on to planes,” BFMTV quoted her as saying. Royal’s ministerial portfolio also includes transport.

It is done for international trains and I think it could also be done for trains in France.

What does p*** me off is my govt telling me it's all under control - whether it is national security/readiness for this sort of calamity, screening of refugees, the monitoring of our home-grown jihadi wannabes....
Over here in UK we have only just faced up to the reality of the "Trojan Horse" plot whereby a very large number of schools were effectively taken over by hard line Islamicists preaching misogyny, homophobia and cultural intolerance.( It was hardly a surprise to me and many others.....but the State did not want to face this head on. )
We have a huge problem in UK secondary schools, colleges and universities all hiding under the protection of free speech, tolerance etc.

 

[Bohemian]

You are correct in that I have read quite a few articles since I posted that question (& I really, sincerely think it is a situation worth studying).

Thank you for sharing this perspective.

No problem, Honey. I think only Turkey accommodates more Syrian refugees than Jordan. I am certain if there is anything you want to know that I can ask my friends questions or find out from them where to look.

Sorry for being defensive but I have found some of the comments on this thread quite distressing. I am a Christian but I have had, and do have, friends who are of many different faiths and nationalities yet, the only ones who have ever done me any harm are those of my own.

 

[Bohemian]

Actually there are Palestinians in Jordan and Lebanon. I read up on it more when I came across this WP article (worth the read on the individual refugees) on the current refugees.


Story about a Syrian refugee in Lebanon
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/syrian-refugees/2013/12/02/downwardly-mobile/

A brother-in-law had found a day-labor job at a car dealership owned by a wealthy Palestinian man who had himself lived as a refugee. The Palestinian man told them about the vacant lot he owned.

He backed the old fish trailer onto the lot, and he gave the family a small Ford van so they could get around. He asked for no money in return.

“He’s been a refugee himself, so he knows what it is like,” Habib says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps

Palestinian refugee camps:

Syria has 13 refugee camps and 499,189 registered refugees.
There are 12 refugee camps in Lebanon and 448,599 registered refugees.
There are 10 refugee camps in Jordan and 2,034,641 registered refugees.


https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/07/jordan-palestinians-escaping-syria-turned-away

The 44-page report, “Not Welcome: Jordan’s Treatment of Palestinians Escaping Syria,” is based on interviews with more than 30 people affected by the non-admission policy. Human Rights Watch also documented Jordan’s withdrawal of Jordanian citizenship from some Palestinians who had lived in Syria for many years and who have been detained or deported to Syria without identity documents. Jordan’s uncompromising treatment of Palestinians fleeing Syria contrasts with its treatment of Syrian nationals, at least 607,000 of whom have been accepted into the country since the beginning of the Syrian conflict. Before the March 2011 uprising began, Syria was home to at least 520,000 Palestinian refugees.

Re Palestinian vs Syrian refugees in Jordan. I will ask my friends, who are Jordanian about this.

 

[Nana]

So what, Syrian men are somehow 'bad' is that what you're saying? You know what, hate to tell you, but people are pretty much the same the world over, if the men ARE actually leaving first it's probably because they figured having their wives and children walk to Europe was not the right thing when they were safer in a refugee camp or similar.

Or else the whole story is a media beat up and not even true.

And I tell you..
I would not run and leave my family behind so if that makes the Syrian men bad ok

 

[ZaZara]

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/artic...ocial&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1447759470


French investigators are questioning the possibility that there is a second terrorist at large


However, investigators are questioning the possibility that a second man who participated in the attacks is on the run. According to numerous testimonies collected by the police, the Seat which carried the perpetrators of the attacks on the terraces of cafes of the 10th and 11th arrondissements had three passengers. Among them, the two brothers Brahim and Salah Abdeslam and thus, possibly, a third unidentified man. The vehicle was later located in Montreuil (Seine-Saint-Denis), Sunday. Three Kalashnikovs and chargers had been left inside.


BBM