Found Deceased TN - Noah Chamberlin, 2, Pinson, 14 Jan 2016 - #2

[Missoni]

Been reading up on SAR dogs and cadaver dogs and I wonder how many people are searching at any one time. Wonder if they've used the dogs to check the searchers boots etc., when they come off a shift of searching. Assuming should something spike an interest to the dog, they could return to the grid that particular searcher has been at.

Dunno... just clutching at straws here really. Ugh, can't stand the thought of this little man out there all alone.

 

[Purplepixii]

<respectfully snipped by me>
I've also taken him to our families property to just kind of let him go, (with me following obviously), to see what he did and how he did it when nobody was telling him to stay in a certain area. I know all kids are different, but what stuck out to me was that he did not take the path of least resistance and he never stopped he just kept going in a zig zaggy kind of way and would only stop to check out something interesting. He traveled a fair distance on those two year old legs in an hours time. I don't understand how and or why these searchers don't take into account typical toddler actions, which is they just go with no rhyme or reason, look EVERYWHERE! Across the freaking road and miles and miles past it, if they've gone eight miles, go 12, go everywhere you don't think he will. Sorry for the long post I'm just upset and don't mean to be critical of these lovely searchers, they are doing a brillant job and I only wish I could do more from MO.

This ^^^

IMO it's time searchers stopped thinking of children behaving in the logical way (many, not all) adults do and start thinking the way that kids do.

The above by SoccerMotha is a perfect example of just how random kids are! LE & SAR would do well to take this into consideration when searching for missing kids.

Noah - where are you? Too many days have passed now and my hope is fading

 

[HBOKim]

<BBM for Focus>

Meinmyrtlebeach, there is only one reasonable conclusion or possibility that I can come up with as to Noah's mysterious disappearance without a trace, and the many K9s inability to pick up a scent.. Many times the lack of signs or evidence is very important, even more important than those seen, imo.

I am very concerned about a wildlife/predator attack on Noah. I had posted about coyotes, but coyotes usually leave residue/evidence of their attacks and are very noisy. My primary concern is a cougars/mountain lion attack. The DNR introduced them into the TN/NC/GA forests over 10 years ago. Their MO of stealthily stalking/hunting/capturing their prey seems to fit. Cougars carry their prey to a well hidden desolate area up to one half mile away, and then bury it, for later retrieval..

Cougars also emit a very heavy lingering scent and would likely cover/overpower a young child's scent, possibly preventing the detection by the K9s, imo..
Imo, when Noah separated from his grandmother and sister, the predator may have taken advantage of this rare opportunity to strike..

I found a website on cougar sightings in TN. There are quite a few sighted over the past 5 years and several recent sightings near Pinson, TN within their geographical range of hunting territory which is a very large area. There was a cougar sighting in 2009 and another in September 2015 approximately 50 miles from Pinson, TN.

In addition to its' excellent vision, the Mountain Lion has extremely sensitive hearing. This is also an important tool for hunting in low light. Lions can detect high frequency sounds that allow them to detect hidden prey. By comparison, Mountain Lions have a weak sense of smell. This is the trade-off cats made millions of years ago. Evolving short muzzles increased biting power, but decreased the sense of smell.

Mountain Lions are known as ambush hunters. The lion waits patiently in dense vegetation or rock crevices for prey to wander by. Then, silent stalking of the prey is followed by a quick surprise attack by the powerful cat. A popular myth is that Mountain Lions jump out of trees or off of cliffs to attack their prey. In actuality they may leap from a high hiding place to build up speed for the attack, but at the point of impact, they keep their hind legs on the ground for balance and, if necessary, a quick escape. When attacking large animals, Mountain Lions go for the neck. Their jaws are powerful enough to break the neck of a deer or smaller animal. Alternatively when attacking larger animals such as elk or even horses, Mountain Lions choose to clamp down on the windpipe, strangling the victim.

One lion can consume up to 20 or 30 pounds of meat in a single meal. After feeding on its kill, the lion will cache the prey, or bury it in a secluded spot. The Mountain Lion will return to feed on the prey for up to 10 days.
The range of a Mountain Lion may cover 25 to 785 square miles.
______________

Vancouver Island cougar attacks toddler in family's yard
Cougar had daughter's head in its jaws when her dad punched it to save her..
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cougar-attack-vancouver-1.3238052
West TN Cougar sightings: https://www.uu.edu/forms/cougars/sightings.cfm

Fatal Cougar Attacks in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America#2000s

Mountain Lion/Cougar

Cougar sighting 09/20/2015 confirmed by TWRA: http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2015/10/06/cougar-sighting-confirmed-twra/73464314/

Wow........I'm speechless. Maybe a cougar is what happened to Noah. If so, it happened swiftly and Noah would never have even known what hit him.

 

[kytty]

This is what bothers me...I have a 2 yr old son. Anytime we are out of my house and he doesn't see me or Daddy or his siblings he starts freaking out---crying, yelling for us. I don't understand how even 15 mins had gone by and this little one didn't make one noise or answer when his grandmother was calling. Especially if he was hurt...he'd be screaming. My &#128148; is broken.

 

[white rabbit]

dumb question - why are they only allowing volunteers to search in the dark?

that's when the search effort is least likely to be effective, not to mention cold and dangerous.

thoughts?

 

[HBOKim]

I wonder if a dog can track a cougar to it's den? Are there specially trained dogs for situations like this?

 

[Sweetgrits]

Dont they usually grab them from the back of the neck and pretty much break their spines rendering them silent right away.? Which is why people with back packs have occasionally been saved due to the back pack being on their neck area. Not trying to be gross but that's pretty much what I have been told and read. So no noise at all, and then something fairly smallish would just be lifted up, off the ground and ran with until they went to their hidey hole place etc.

Gross doesn't bother me. I worked in a trauma center for 20 years so I've seen it all.

 

[ILOKAL]

Ive worried about a mountain lion attack too because I've heard of them grabbing their prey by the throat and carrying them off before eating them. Which could explain the lack of cries and evidence of an attack in the area, especially with a toddler, even if he had seen the cougar about to attack
It probably wouldn't have prompted a scared response from the little boy because to him it would have likely just looked like an overgrown house pet and if it grabbed him by the throat he could have been dead before he even realized what was happening. I really hope that if he was attacked by a predator that it happened quickly and was over before he could feel any pain. It still seems like a much less likely option to me because of the chances of a mountain lion being that close to a residence in the middle of the day and just happening upon the little boy right as the gramma lost sight of him(I'm guessing it would have had to have happened soon or the dogs would have probably been able to follow the scent to where he was attacked) and animals are smart, for them to risk attacking a human child who probably had the scent of several other people on him from playing and being held and carried a lot just seems like a pretty risky and desperate move for an animal living in the woods, unless there's a shortage of easier prey in that area I can't imagine an animal taking that risk. It just seems much less likely than Noah wandering in a different direction into the arms of a human predator or fallen somewhere out of sight pretty close to where he went missing. Of course I'm not qualified to speak on this subject at all, these are just my thoughts. The lack of scent or much of any evidence that he was in the woods is puzzling.

Cougars have excellent sight and hearing but their sense of smell is weak. They do not roar. It may have visited that area often and actually seen the children. ML are opportunistic, stealth, elusive killers. They see you - you don't see them! It may have been stalking the children that day for an hour before the opportunity presented itself.

 

[Portabella]

I do not think Cougar attack, they shake their prey and a blood trail would more then likely be evident, plus remains would be left. We just had a Cougar attack on a dog, actually probably smaller then lil Noah and it is the norm http://kdvr.com/2016/01/18/wild-animal-kills-family-pet-in-castle-rock-was-it-a-mountain-lion/, blood trail and remains at end of trail. Imho

 

[SweetT]

I wonder if a dog can track a cougar to it's den? Are there specially trained dogs for situations like this?

Yes, I have seen shows where the person is hired to track mountain lions for others for money, They train these dogs to follow mountain lion scent. I think they are very few of them but they do exist. Something like this needed to be done within the first 24 hrs IMO.

 

[wowitsdark]

This ^^^

IMO it's time searchers stopped thinking of children behaving in the logical way (many, not all) adults do and start thinking the way that kids do.

I guess I don't know that searchers aren't doing this. My understanding is that they've just been fanning out all over the place in the woods and not just going in some straight line down a path.

As others have mentioned, I am curious about why they have not searched across the road from the grandparent's house. Perhaps if I used Google streetview and got a look at the area I would understand so I'm not necessarily assuming they don't have good reason for sticking with the woods side of the house.

I have been through Pinson a number of times and visited Pinson Mounds, so I have a pretty good idea of what the terrain is like. Just not, specifically, what the road / street their house is on looks like. There is farm ground and woods throughout this area, and the woods are extremely dense. The trees are very tall and many are skinny. There is apt to be kudzu.

Are more woods across the street from their house, or are there houses? Generally speaking, it seems like people live on very large lots that have a lot of area cleared of trees for their yards. It's not as though there is a little clearing in the woods with a house sitting deep in trees. My observation has been that they clear 1/2 acre to several acres and have quite a lot to mow.

Not knowing if their home is in a populated area or not, etc., has me wondering what their reasoning for sticking to the woods on that one side of the house is.

 

[Missoni]

This is what bothers me...I have a 2 yr old son. Anytime we are out of my house and he doesn't see me or Daddy or his siblings he starts freaking out---crying, yelling for us. I don't understand how even 15 mins had gone by and this little one didn't make one noise or answer when his grandmother was calling. Especially if he was hurt...he'd be screaming. My &#62612; is broken.

Kids are just so different. I found a 2-3 year old wandering round a supermarket, totally oblivious to everything around him, he was on an adventure and didn't give a hoot. I watched him for around 5 minutes waiting for a frantic parent to rush in, that didn't happen, but that's another story all together. He got reunited in the end but to be honest, he wasn't bothered one way or the other, I guess at that age, he didn't see the danger.

 

[Foxfire]

Great info Foxfire but if Noah was attacked by an animal wouldn't he have cried out with fear? Since the searchers have been in those woods constantly since the disappearance wouldn't they have heard something? Even if Noah was afraid to call out when he heard strangers calling his name surely he would if he was attacked.

Sweetgrits, the cougar/mountain lion has very powerful jaws and target the neck/head during their lightning fast blitz attacks.

Vancouver Island cougar attacks toddler in family's yard
Cougar had daughter's head in its jaws when her dad punched it to save her
CBC News Posted: Sep 21, 2015

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cougar-attack-vancouver-1.3238052

 

[MotherOfDragons1227]

dumb question - why are they only allowing volunteers to search in the dark?

that's when the search effort is least likely to be effective, not to mention cold and dangerous.

thoughts?

I think they just want the professionals to be able to utilize daylight hours without interference from volunteers but understand how many people are desperate to help

 

[darring21]

I do not think Cougar attack, they shake their prey and a blood trail would more then likely be evident, plus remains would be left. We just had a Cougar attack on a dog, actually probably smaller then lil Noah and it is the norm http://kdvr.com/2016/01/18/wild-animal-kills-family-pet-in-castle-rock-was-it-a-mountain-lion/, blood trail and remains at end of trail. Imho

This is exactly why we can discount a cougar attack. Even though a victim may not be able to call for help, the attack itself is loud. A cougar would have a difficult time carrying 30 pounds in their mouth, would be spooked by the grandmother yelling for Noah, would leave behind evidence of dragging, articles of clothing and a diaper, and a lot of blood.

 

[ILOKAL]

I wonder if a dog can track a cougar to it's den? Are there specially trained dogs for situations like this?

Cougars don't live in dens like wolves do. They live in day beds and they move from place to place. Some states allow cougars to be hunted and many allow dogs. These dogs are specially trained to track cougars. Other dogs, no.

 

[Sweetgrits]

I guess I don't know that searchers aren't doing this. My understanding is that they've just been fanning out all over the place in the woods and not just going in some straight line down a path.

As others have mentioned, I am curious about why they have not searched across the road from the grandparent's house. Perhaps if I used Google streetview and got a look at the area I would understand so I'm not necessarily assuming they don't have good reason for sticking with the woods side of the house.

I have been through Pinson a number of times and visited Pinson Mounds, so I have a pretty good idea of what the terrain is like. Just not, specifically, what the road / street their house is on looks like. There is farm ground and woods throughout this area, and the woods are extremely dense. The trees are very tall and many are skinny. There is apt to be kudzu.

Are more woods across the street from their house, or are there houses? Generally speaking, it seems like people live on very large lots that have a lot of area cleared of trees for their yards. It's not as though there is a little clearing in the woods with a house sitting deep in trees. My observation has been that they clear 1/2 acre to several acres and have quite a lot to mow.

Not knowing if their home is in a populated area or not, etc., has me wondering what their reasoning for sticking to the woods on that one side of the house is.

BBM
Do we know if any of the media has asked the question of whether the searchers had checked out the woods across gandma's house? Maybe they have and we just don't know. JMO

 

[sarx]

Animal predation is extremely rare in reality. It makes for great TV but just does not happen that much in real life.

When we get this many days in it is natural to start grabbing onto anything in an effort to explain. I'm afraid the most likely scenario is that he wandered deeper than thought, quite possibly signing and zagging and crawling into places that adults wouldn't think possible and had simply been missed. It happens far too often. And it is very true that all your normal lost person behavior training goes out the window when searching for a toddler.

 

[steelman]

dumb question - why are they only allowing volunteers to search in the dark?

that's when the search effort is least likely to be effective, not to mention cold and dangerous.

thoughts?

The volunteer searchers going out at night is serving two important purposes.

1) They can continue to search as well as double check previously searched areas to make sure nothing was overlooked.

2) A bunch of people out in the forest will cause animals to flee the area. Predators and scavengers alike will hightail it to some other area as long as the woods are noisy and busy with people.

I don't think I need to go into a lot of detail about why letting predators and scavengers move back into their usual hunting grounds would be a very bad idea, at least not until after Noah is found.

 

[darring21]

BBM
Do we know if any of the media has asked the question of whether the searchers had checked out the woods across gandma's house? Maybe they have and we just don't know. JMO

There is an assumption on the board that across from the house hasn't been checked. Unless I missed this being said, I would assume it has been checked. LE has protocols for these kinds of searches and this sheriff seems to be thorough.