ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #20

[desert-blue]

The parent's houses were searched very early on... They weren't allowed within the search zone for a few days after the "disappearance"... I think they were suspects very early on.

I hope so. Otherwise, I'm afraid evidence could have been lost or overlooked. I don't understand why LE wasn't doing more "on the mountain" during the rest of July, August, September, and October. They (LE) had A LOT of time to search up there if they thought he was up there (buried or hidden or whatever). Seems odd that they waited until January in the middle of winter to name them suspects. Even if someone gave them a tip as to DeOrr's whereabouts, at this point it would be very difficult to follow up. Frustrating.

 

[Hatfield]

The parent's houses were searched very early on... They weren't allowed within the search zone for a few days after the "disappearance"... I think they were suspects very early on.

The Sheriff does seem to be very careful with the words he chooses so maybe he wasn't really believing the parents as much as he made us think in some of the early interviews with him.
Maybe his actions behind the scenes were much more aggressive regarding the parents.

In his latest interview I was pleased to hear about the extensive work that LE has done so far. They definitely have put a lot of resources into this case which helps give me confidence they will end up solving it in its entirety.

 

[Rayemonde]

I hope so. Otherwise, I'm afraid evidence could have been lost or overlooked. I don't understand why LE wasn't doing more "on the mountain" during the rest of July, August, September, and October. They (LE) had A LOT of time to search up there if they thought he was up there (buried or hidden or whatever). Seems odd that they waited until January in the middle of winter to name them suspects. Even if someone gave them a tip as to DeOrr's whereabouts, at this point it would be very difficult to follow up. Frustrating.

Maybe they have conducted searches in other areas but didn't announce it to the public?

 

[Hoosier952]

Yeah and I'm thinking Klein might be right about the whole timeline from 8am being a myth (just my interpretation of what he said about that), because SB said they couldn't get their story straight about who made breakfast, who carried the fishing poles and so on... If they're lying about breakfast, it seems likely that the whole timeline for that day is a lie.

So if the entire Friday timeline is bunk, what's placing Deorr alive and well Thursday? All 4 POIs claiming he was definitely alive and well? Someone saw him Thursday night? Someone saw him prior to 8 am Friday morning?

If someone saw him around 8 am Fri morning, AFAIK, it would have had to have been one of the 4 POIs, and since the parents are suspects, I would think they were using the statements from IR and GGP, but Klein says IR can't tell the same story, so I can't believe he'd be willing to bet an entire timeline on his statements and LE says GGP can't remember squat, so he doesn't seem like a solid witness. So was someone else there? Not necessarily at camp but at the campgrounds?

Or do we have 4 POIs who are all in agreement with the timeline Thursday night so Klein is assuming it's the truth? Even if someone from Leadore saw him Thursday night before they made it to camp, I'd think Thursday night's timeline would still be questionable at best. Did everyone stay up all night to keep tabs on Deorr and/or the suspects?

 

[kammiemc]

Maybe they have conducted searches in other areas but didn't announce it to the public?

One thing that Klein has refused to comment on was whether cadaver dogs hit on the vehicles.

Also, LE has never talked about it.

I keep thinking that it will come out that they did. And maybe there's even DNA evidence. And that's why LE has never considered abduction and why Klein can say with confidence that he is deceased. I don't think he would say something so powerful and final if there was no evidence.


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[ILOKAL]

But surely JM is giving the hour estimate based on the time of HER call, not the 2:22 call. There is thus far no evidence to suggest that she was even aware of the earlier call at that point.

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The 2:22 call brings us closer to the actual amount of time since DeOrr had been discovered missing. They left for the creek at approximately 1:45 (almost 2:00 and close to DeOrr's nap time) and returned at approximately 1:55-2:00 when they realized DeOrr was missing, and they searched for approximately 20 minutes.

 

[ILOKAL]

Repeating what JM and DK said they did over and over again is getting us nowhere. Everything from LE and PIs says they LIED. That's what untruthful means.

"Less than truthful."

 

[Hatfield]

"Less than truthful."

IMO
There is no middle ground. Its either truthful or not. Being less than truthful is lying IMO.

Think about it this way. Positive OR Negative If you are < 0, then it is Negatve.

Same with Less than Truthful, Its either Lying OR Truth. Since it is < Truthful, it is lying.

I think it was a polite way of calling them liars.

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO
There is no middle ground. Its either truthful or not. Being less than truthful is lying IMO.

Think about it this way. Positive OR Negative If you are < 0, then it is Negatve.

Same with Less than Truthful, Its either Lying OR Truth. Since it is < Truthful, it is lying.

I think it was a polite way of calling them liars.

Maybe LE can't figure out what is the lie and what is the truth and that's where the "less than truthful" comes in. I don't know, but obviously there are lies being told. I agree - black or white, truth or lie. There's no middle ground especially when you're talking to law enforcement about your missing child.

 

[desert-blue]

The 2:22 call brings us closer to the actual amount of time since DeOrr had been discovered missing. They left for the creek at approximately 1:45 (almost 2:00 and close to DeOrr's nap time) and returned at approximately 1:55-2:00 when they realized DeOrr was missing, and they searched for approximately 20 minutes.

I think this is all part of the myth; in other words it's made up. The scenario they gave is not real.

 

[ILOKAL]

IMO
There is no middle ground. Its either truthful or not. Being less than truthful is lying IMO.

Think about it this way. Positive OR Negative If you are < 0, then it is Negatve.

Same with Less than Truthful, Its either Lying OR Truth. Since it is < Truthful, it is lying.

I think it was a polite way of calling them liars.

Nope, Bowerman has precisely used the term "less than truthful" over and over and over again. There's certainly an important reason for that. Think about all the times he has said that! If all the various terms others have put out there and stating they mean the same thing, wouldn't you think in at least SOME of Bowerman's statements he would have used some of those other terms?

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

"Less than truthful."

Means lying, IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I think this is all part of the myth; in other words it's made up. The scenario they gave is not real.

The "myth" according to Klein? The answer he gave that no one understands?

 

[Morag]

We can debate what 'less than truthful' means. But can we please try to think of reasons for parents of a missing child to tell LE (and others who are trying to find the baby) anything less that the complete truth?

I can't think of anything that I would withhold- unless I was responsible for his going missing. Anyone got another reason?

 

[AmyPond]

If you've done nothing wrong, you have no reason to be "less than truthful."

Personally, I believe he used that phrasing because SOME of the things they said were the truth and SOME of the things they said were lies. They didn't lie about everything. So he worded it in a way to show that they were truthful at least part of the time.

 

[bessie]

I hope so. Otherwise, I'm afraid evidence could have been lost or overlooked. I don't understand why LE wasn't doing more "on the mountain" during the rest of July, August, September, and October. They (LE) had A LOT of time to search up there if they thought he was up there (buried or hidden or whatever). Seems odd that they waited until January in the middle of winter to name them suspects. Even if someone gave them a tip as to DeOrr's whereabouts, at this point it would be very difficult to follow up. Frustrating.

SB said he was waiting for the reports from the FBI. Those came back in January. If someone had a legitimate tip, I don't believe s/he would have waited for the parents to be named suspects. JMO

 

[kammiemc]

We can debate what 'less than truthful' means. But can we please try to think of reasons for parents of a missing child to tell LE (and others who are trying to find the baby) anything less that the complete truth?

I can't think of anything that I would withhold- unless I was responsible for his going missing. Anyone got another reason?

I would tell all my deepest darkest secrets 100% truthfully to LE if my little boy was missing. Frankly, there is literally nothing I wouldn't do to help find him. Nothing.


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[Lilibet]

We don't know what facts about which JM and VDK have been "less than truthful." SB hasn't told us, except to say that they have not always given the same facts twice and he gave a couple of examples involving breakfast and a fishing pole.

We only have the times of the 911 calls for sure. JM said in hers that DK had been missing for an hour. Who knows?! Nothing has been established as true or false.

Even if someone is inclined to believe what JM and VDK have said, there is no proof that any of their statements are true or not. What's to discuss or debate? There is no established timeline. It's an exercise in futility IMO. What's the point?
JMO

 

[kammiemc]

Nope, Bowerman has precisely used the term "less than truthful" over and over and over again. There's certainly an important reason for that. Think about all the times he has said that! If all the various terms others have put out there and stating they mean the same thing, wouldn't you think in at least SOME of Bowerman's statements he would have used some of those other terms?

He explained why he changed the word from deceptive to less than truthful, because they passed some portions of their polygraphs, but consistently failed the two major questions.


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[desert-blue]

The "myth" according to Klein? The answer he gave that no one understands?

I think I understand it. Klein's comments, coupled with Bowerman's statements that they are less than truthful and that their stories keeps changing, lead me to believe that what the parents have said they were doing is not really what they were doing.

&#8220;Their timeline keeps changing, where they were at keeps changing, and movements and statements about DeOrr Jr. keep changing,&#8221; Bowerman tells EastIdahoNews.com.