Bosma Murder Trial 05.12.16 - Day 48

[SuperSpy]

I think CN and MB took care of the gun. CN because she is in on the LB murder. MB because she was trying to protect her son. They did it right after they wiped the fingerprints off the trailer. We know that CN called up MS that night, asking questions. She asked him about the gun. He still had it. The press was starting to get on the story. MS told us that a reporter had called house. CN and MB whipped over there and got it and took care of it. CN wasn't leaving the gun in the hands of MS, that would have been too risky. And with the press converging everywhere, it had to be taken care of immediately.

Notice how the Crown hasn't entered into evidence the location of CN's phone after the "little mission" night ? Why aren't they telling us where CN and MB were on the night that they cleaned up the finger prints ? Do you think that is all they cleaned up ? I doubt it.

Every time that CN wants to cover something up she is either stoned, super tired, drinking or having sex. What did CN say her and MB were doing after cleaning up the finger prints ? Drinking copious amounts of wine. Think that was the case ? Nope. They were covering up other evidence - the gun.

 

[SuperSpy]

Riddle me this - we have been told time and again that LE wasn't familiar with DM previously. How were they able to track him down via the tattoo?

I think it was a tip from Crimestoppers.

 

[Georgeo]

I think the poster is referring to this week.

Yes, totally referring to this week....

 

[raining]

I think it was a tip from Crimestoppers.

Nope, he was carded.

 

[ILoveDateline]

That will change when DM gets on the stand and tells the jury that MS carried the gun into the truck. DM had no place to conceal it. SB already testified he wasn't wearing a man purse.

DM will maybe say that MS had the gun in the Yukon and when they stopped he went up to the truck's driver's window. DM rolled it down. MS raised the gun and shot TB, the bullet passing in front of DM. That is the only way that I can see TB wouldn't have been able to reach at the gun and try to get it away.

TD stopped the story short. He didn't question MS about what went on between burying the gun and getting arrested. He didn't ask him about what was said during the famous call from CN. TD planned to ask more questions, but didn't. Something changed. I wonder if the Crown was offering a lesser sentence AATF, but they withdrew it because MS's testimony didn't offer enough new evidence.

And the gsr gets in TBs truck how?

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

Nope, he was carded.

Correct - he was carded during a traffic stop in Toronto

 

[SuperSpy]

In the jailhouse letters, DM said that MS screwed up and he was just cleaning up after him. I'd love to hear DM's version of things, just for giggles.

 

[SuperSpy]

And the gsr gets in TBs truck how?

MS holds the gun far into the cab, about at DM's right shoulder. Maybe a bit past his nose. Maybe TB was yelling at DM to take him home and MS snapped. Awful to think about.

 

[palisadesk]

Riddle me this - we have been told time and again that LE wasn't familiar with DM previously. How were they able to track him down via the tattoo?

He was in the database via having been "carded" previously, and his "ambition" tattoo was noted in the record. The cell phone records also led police to DM, and to the "ambition" tatto via IT.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...id-police-zero-in-on-dellen-millard-1.3431969

 

[Elisabeth]

So according to MS, there was a change in plans when DM had MS go to the Yukon and follow.

If, as MS said, the change in clothes was to not identify themselves at the subsequent theft, then bringing the Yukon into it signaled one of two things: (1) DM knew he didn't want to steal this particular truck OR (2) DM planned to murder Tim Bosma. Since in both cases it wouldn't matter if Tim Bosma could identify the Yukon. (I still think the change of clothes was a weak way to hide your identity as the two thieves - as the hangar video showed: height and gait were identified).

The truck and the Bosmas' relatively remote locale didn't disqualify the theft did it? Doesn't that leave #2?

So I would be asking MS: didn't you know at that moment that murder was planned?

 

[RandomName479]

Of course there is a lot of new evidence. Not that all are necessarily truthful and credible. But they will be considered. Among them are

1. That MS was not planning a homicide - actually not certain if the Crown is going for 1st degree because of premeditation or forcible confinement....
2. That there was no 3rd person - the Crown never once claimed there was a third person
3. That no restraints were applied to the victim at least until after they picked up the Yukon (that may help MS avoid 1st degree and get AATF) - Crown never said TB was restrained
4. That DM left the keys in Yukon (could indicate that DM planned this scenario) - new detail...but still fits with the Crown's theory....
5. That there was at least one shot fired in the truck (that hit the window) - Crown actually presented evidence FOR this
6. That DM was in the truck when the shooting happened - Crown also presented evidence for this
7. That Tim Bosma died or was severely injured during the time he was in the truck with DM - not new - this was the Crown's claim all along
8. That DM was in possession of a handgun soon after the shooting - give you that it's a new detail.....the Crown never took a firm stance on who they think actually shot TB....this may very well be enough to reopen DM's defense
9. That ultimately Tim Bosma died at their hands. - Crown has always said this, right from the opening statement
10. That DM owned guns in general and Walther PPK in particular - also Crown has presented evidence of this (texts between DM and One of the Matthew's)
11. That it was DM who was operating the incinerator (and this is extremely important, as it completes the possible causes of death, IMO) - Crown said both were responsible.....so I see this like number 8....could be new info
12. That MS and DM did dispose of some evidence - Crown presented evidence of this

RSBM and coloured by me....

I'm not taking a stance on whether Justice Goodman will allow DM to reopen his defense.....what I'm saying is that both the Crown and TD say this is not possible. The only way it is possible is if MS has testified to new evidence....and from your list, the only thing I can see as "new" is that MS is saying DM was alone in shooting and burning of the body. The rest of your list was already presented by the Crown. MOO.

 

[Elisabeth]

Yeah, I'm really curious how the fireside furniture and MM's report of their morning behavior will be addressed. No way it doesn't come up. And those are the two big sticking points for me.

As far as their mood being 'happy' the next day, unfortunately with the way she changed her word choice I don't know what to picture. I could picture DM being celebratory that he had a truck--and I could picture MS being punch-drunk from a night of no sleep and weed and adrenaline burnout and horror, the latter assuming he has a conscience. The two texts, however, are a problem (for me, and I assume for his defense).

and the BBQ was part of mission prep

 

[RandomName479]

Riddle me this - we have been told time and again that LE wasn't familiar with DM previously. How were they able to track him down via the tattoo?

I believe DM was "carded" and LE had the tattoo info on file. Someone find me a link please

Also I believe an officer testified that they had a couple of reliable sources who said DM had that tattoo.

MOO

eta - MANY posters beat me to this.....love how knowledgeable this group is!

 

[SuperSpy]

What does carded mean ?

 

[redheart]

I think CN and MB took care of the gun. CN because she is in on the LB murder. MB because she was trying to protect her son. They did it right after they wiped the fingerprints off the trailer. We know that CN called up MS that night, asking questions. She asked him about the gun. He still had it. The press was starting to get on the story. MS told us that a reporter had called house. CN and MB whipped over there and got it and took care of it. CN wasn't leaving the gun in the hands of MS, that would have been too risky. And with the press converging everywhere, it had to be taken care of immediately.

Notice how the Crown hasn't entered into evidence the location of CN's phone after the "little mission" night ? Why aren't they telling us where CN and MB were on the night that they cleaned up the finger prints ? Do you think that is all they cleaned up ? I doubt it.

Every time that CN wants to cover something up she is either stoned, super tired, drinking or having sex. What did CN say her and MB were doing after cleaning up the finger prints ? Drinking copious amounts of wine. Think that was the case ? Nope. They were covering up other evidence - the gun.

That's an interesting theory, but I don't think the timeline works for when witnesses place the gun with MS. I could be wrong, but have to run so will check later - sorry!

 

[deugirtni]

Until they clarify, I disagree that they disagree. They do not give the reason why they think it's impossible. May be they are saying it due to some other reasons.

Yesterday when people were asking SClairmont, she was saying, no, 'that ship has sailed', meaning no, DM can not change his mind and decide to testify at this point. Today people are once again asking, and she is reporting that according to both the Crown and Dungey, it is not possible. Why would he suddenly want to testify anyway? If he wanted to testify, he simply could have chosen to testify. Everyone, including and especially the defence teams, already knew the defences were adversarial. DM knew when he declined to testify that MS could testify. The legal arguments are what they have been doing all along, which is to review in detail what will be allowed to be brought up or asked about during the cross examination. moo

 

[canadiangirl]

Correct - he was carded during a traffic stop in Toronto

I know this is fact as it's been in the media and mentioned here a lot. It makes me wonder why someone so squeaky clean and not known to police was ever tagged in the first place ..... I wish we were privy to a few outside things

 

[SuperSpy]

Yesterday when people were asking SClairmont, she was saying, no, 'that ship has sailed', meaning no, DM can not change his mind and decide to testify at this point. Today people are once again asking, and she is reporting that according to both the Crown and Dungey, it is not possible. Why would he suddenly want to testify anyway? If he wanted to testify, he simply could have chosen to testify. Everyone, including and especially the defence teams, already knew the defences were adversarial. DM knew when he declined to testify that MS could testify. The legal arguments are what they have been doing all along, which is to review in detail what will be allowed to be brought up or asked about during the cross examination. moo

Last night a CTV reporter interviewed a legal expert who said that DM was probably going to be able to reopen his case and call evidence.

 

[Crimeinthe6ix]

it means during a traffic stop the officer recorded the fact he had this tattoo into a police database

 

[palisadesk]

Another thing that bugs me is that all the Bullmans were pretty sure two trucks came out of that field. It is fairly shielded from the road but it was pretty clever for Smich to come up with the explanation that the Yukon was just sitting at the entrance and for DM to say that their buddy was lost as an excuse to stop.

Unless I missed something, it was only one Bullman who testified, the younger one whose property fronts on Book Rd and was walking his dog at the time. The property with the entrance to the field belongs to his father, whose house is farther down and fronts onto Trinity Road, Bullman Jr, did say that he not infrequently saw cars pulled over there while drivers used their phones (testimony that gave me the creeps, because I've done exactly that in that very spot a couple of times - though not around the time of the crime). Just past the entrance to the field, around to the left, are stacks of hay which would offer perfect concealment if you wanted to leave a car unnoticed for a while. It seemed more likely to me that they had done that. But, one can't say for sure that MS's version, that they left the Yukon parked in the entrance, was false. To turn around, both vehicles could have gone into the field and done a complete turn, and come out, as Bullmann reported seeing.

On an unrelated note, the Bosma's driveway is not a really long one, either, though it's longer than a city drive; by country standards, it's very average. Probably not more than 100 m, maybe less. Mine's longer than that. In this area there are lots of houses set pretty far back from the road. I would expect it to take them 5 minutes or so to walk down to the Bosma house from where they were.

I'm still thinking Pillay will try to suggest that they didn't go back to the Yukon right away, but that they drove north on Trinity first and came back after a few minutes (as per his cross-examination of Plaxton), giving MS the potential for being in the RAM when the shooting occurred. It won't exculpate his client but could cast doubts on MS's credibility.