Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Elwood_1]

How many 18 yr olds were driving a brand new VS Commodore station wagon in those days?

The vast majority of new Commodes were sold to fleets. I had one as a company car, and quite a big deal was made of it due to their expense. When the leases ran out they began to filter onto the second hand market, but for a VS that wouldn't have been until 97 at the very earliest.

If an 18 yo had managed to save up the required amount for a deposit the interest rate and insurance would have been extraordinary. Back then a VS was worth about a years average wages ~$32,000 +/-
The equivalent value now would be about $80,000.

 

[Elwood_1]

What if like the Gerard Ross case the Karra evidence was based on something else? Like dog hairs. No POI would be DNA linked, but a link could actually be there.

 

[papertrail]

At first glance, I'd have to say that Dorrough is unlikely to be the CSK, considering he would've been 18 at the time of the murders and didn't actually live in Perth. Also, if he confessed to 3 then why wouldn't he confess to then all in his suicide note? It's a possibility that the ship he was posted to came alongside in Fremantle for all four victims, but this is extremely unlikely. He would've also had to have hired a vehicle whilst on shore leave, again very unlikely.

He was also in Darwin at the time of JR and CG's murder and in Melbourne when SS disappeared and when Karrakatta rape occurred. So, overall I'd say the chance of Dorrough being the CSK is zero. He would need to have been posted to four different ships at once which is impossible.

Unless you think he drove there from all the above listed spots , committed the murders and then drove back?

No I don't think or would even consider he would have driven down from Darwin. But consider he may have had a period of leave and headed to Perth to visit his parents. Could his parents have owned the VS Commodore? He was at the time, a mechanic so perhaps he had access to a navy fleet motor vehicle ?

He confessed to three murders. OK consider this. He perhaps considered Sara Lee Davey's death as 'accidental' and not murder as the attack on her occurred on the wharf and she was heard to fall into the water (witness), so there are 3 murders - Sarah Spiers, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon. He'd gotten off with a non-conviction with the murder charge regarding murder by motor vehicle accident in Queensland and also Rachael Campbell's murder in NSW so these murders would not be counted in his brain imo.

The April 2016 inquest held in Broome reports also detail that Dorrough wasn't liked by his navy colleagues, they considered Dorrough considered himself a 'ladies' man' and his nickname (in the navy) was Bambi; pretty demeaning I'd say. Perhaps Dorrough's psych was pretty messed up and struck out at girls who had rejected him. A witness from Broome gave a graphic description of what he'd heard the night (very early AM around 2.30am) Sara died.; sounds to me like she rejected him.

Another thing to consider re age is that he was from Brisbane and drivers licenses are issued earlier (re age) in Queensland.
Another thing I have considered his perhaps he had a navy mate cohort.

Sounds to me that Dorrough had a touch of Percy about him.

 

[papertrail]

Police must have a DNA string to gain a profile off, surely? They must know what they are looking at. So why haven't they come out with a profile? And why haven't they run an Ancestry DNA query?

While police may have ruled POIs out. There may well have been two or more people involved in this, and the DNA does not match any of the current POIs. So while, say Dixie wasn't here for all the cases, there is nothing to say he may have been there in other incidents.

Ive still got my money on more than one person. Maybe the VS Commodore fibres are of a secondary vehicle, not involved in the actual crimes.

Any DNA sample used by Police would need to be forensically examined in a registered and approved laboratory if such evidence was going to be used in such a high level criminal case such as the Claremont case. I don't think for one moment that Police would be using Ancestory.com.

 

[papertrail]

It is my belief that a maritime theory was investigated, however it proved unfruitful. No direct Navy connection was associated with it.

at what age were Navy enrollments accepted in 1996? Did Dorrough offend before he was enrolled ? Where did new navy personnel attend for training - was it the Navy establishment on the Swan River? Was Dorrough's posting on HMAS Geelong at the time it was berthed in Broome his initial posting; to me it could well have been due to the fact he'd attempted to take Sara Lee Davey onboard.

HMAS Geelong's home port was Darwin (navy website detail) and was part of the fleet that protected the north-western coast of Australia (fisheries etc) and that is why it was berthed at Broome.

 

[papertrail]

You are talking about your typical 18 year old, I was talking about the non typical 18 year old, my partner just informed me after asking what I was doing that her auntie was murdered by 17 & 18 y/o brothers who were only caught after 21 years due to one of the brothers confessing and trying to pin it on the other brother that had committed suicide.

I said from the get go I doubted this guy was the CSK, evidence suggesting he was else where is the conclusion for this, nothing to do with him being 18 at the time, and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest the CSK wasn't 18 (I'm not saying he was) but we don't have a clue how old he was.

Dorrough was very close to Sarah Spiers' age and that could be why she didn't hesitate to jump into a vehicle with him - good looking guy too.

 

[papertrail]

I think in general it's silly to rule out someone just because they're 18, but when you consider the facts of the Claremont case, I think it's pretty silly to think that an 18 yr old was the CSK.

-drove a brand new VS Commodore may have been owned by parents, navy or a hire vehicle
-links to screen printing may have been link with crafty mother. offender does not have to have a direct link to screen printing; to suggest they do is very narrow minded.
-intelligence to plan and execute what seems like flawless murders well he had the intelligence to get away with 2 murders with non convictions
-familiarity with the dump locations does not have to have familiarity as offender chose the areas to suit his needs and the 'play his game' with the police
-knowledge of forensics and police procedures well who is to say Dorrough didn't study up or have a close connection to someone that did.
-not brag or tell anyone about the crimes he may have committed the crimes in order to boost his own ego and to hear his navy buddies discussing the killings. who is to say one of his navy buddies wasn't a cohort
-intimidating enough to threaten and subdue 4 women who is to say that he wasn't trained in some sort of combative art. well he subdued Sara Lee Davey with what I would call a blitz attack.

Hardly sounds like an 18 year old kid?

^^^BBM

an 18yo male that is mentally disturbed is capable of anything.

 

[papertrail]

I was only just reading up about Richard Dorrough a few nights ago, and also thought he was a great fit for MM, the only thing that ended my suspicion was the reporting of him being looked into for further crimes and ruled out against major crimes around Australia, and then his suicide note which indicated he had murdered 3 people, 2 of which are widely known and the 3rd has been identified but not confirmed. but thinking of it now after reading your post there is nothing stopping him travelling interstate for a few nights, abducting, murdering and dumping his victim and then returning home, it is possible his mention of 3 victims could be him confessing to new unknown victims, the Claremont girls.

All in all he is a great fit but I am sure WAPOL and MACRO have looked into him extensively and with him being dead even with the slightest of suspicions they could reveal him as a suspect without the fear of him doing a runner or hiding evidence.

Him being a newly converted Jehovah witness was something I did not know of though, nothing like being preached the word of god from a serial killer! oh the irony.

Dorrough had used condoms during his 'time spent' with Rachael Campbell - 2 were found at the disposal scene and contained his DNA.

Apparently Dorrough had converted to Jehovah after Jehovah preachers turned up on his doorstep.

I think Dorrough is a very very strong fit for Claremont (and other murders). One hell of a sicko.

 

[papertrail]

No doubt an 18yr old could do it, just not that 18yr old as he was in other places so theres no point getting too upset or dwelling on it, with all due respect, it does nothing more than take the thread off track...

How do you know he was in 'other places' on each night the girls were abducted from Claremont ? The map and timeline the WA police put out was very sketchy and missed a lot of detail. He could have been on leave in Perth for each of those nights; his parents lived in Perth.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Virtually all have been discounted as being the CSK.

Sure thing. I have asked re a lot of POI`s & got the idea all I named are ruled out. The usual suspects. Naturally I didn`t name some that have come up lately. ( For example ML)They don`t give out much info hey. But I deduced they actually might have no one for this. But I guess they have DNA. Unless the CSK gathers beer cans from one random bin & leaves them at a couple of spots to lead coppers off in a different direction. To make it look like he was at both scenes. Just speculating. But hey it does look like they have DNA & not from beer cans. Most likely from clothing, and car fibres. Yep MAP has been ruled out. And SR & PW. I wondered for yonks how they can just rule a lot of guys out. Then came the news that there was linkage between Karrakatta & CG. Then it fell into place that they have dna.

Right. So you continuously state stuff as fact under the guise you have some inside knowledge. Then you admit it's pure speculation but in that very same post you again state certain people have been ruled out.

Any chance you can stop making out you're in the know because we all know you aren't.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Not to mention ruling out Dixie, there is no confirmation of DNA having been found but common logic would dictate this is the reason for being able to eliminate suspects and POI's.

Dixie is the only one police have confirmed has been ruled out. My impression was that it was alibi related rather than DNA. We don't know if those other suspects have been eliminated.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Notice how the article says "The Post reported that Macro have DNA"?

There's only one person claiming police have DNA and that is The Post. Police won't confirm or deny and every other journo in the country is in the dark.

It's not a done deal yet.

www.pressreader.com

 

[Bartholemeus]

Dorrough had used condoms during his 'time spent' with Rachael Campbell - 2 were found at the disposal scene and contained his DNA.

Apparently Dorrough had converted to Jehovah after Jehovah preachers turned up on his doorstep.

I think Dorrough is a very very strong fit for Claremont (and other murders). One hell of a sicko.

Question;

Why would Dorrough only stick to Claremont during this period? He has real connection with the place. He moves around a lot. Why would he just focus on that area? It was pretty hot after JR went missing. A person with no real attachment would most likely change up and abduct from Subiaco, Northbridge, Fremantle etc.

This guy is a long shot IMO. It's not something I will spend time looking at unless some more compelling circumstantial evidence comes to light.

 

[crabstick]

It is a great question. Why did they stick to Claremont specifically?

Question;

Why would Dorrough only stick to Claremont during this period? He has real connection with the place. He moves around a lot. Why would he just focus on that area? It was pretty hot after JR went missing. A person with no real attachment would most likely change up and abduct from Subiaco, Northbridge, Fremantle etc.

This guy is a long shot IMO. It's not something I will spend time looking at unless some more compelling circumstantial evidence comes to light.

 

[Elwood_1]

at what age were Navy enrollments accepted in 1996? Did Dorrough offend before he was enrolled ? Where did new navy personnel attend for training - was it the Navy establishment on the Swan River? Was Dorrough's posting on HMAS Geelong at the time it was berthed in Broome his initial posting; to me it could well have been due to the fact he'd attempted to take Sara Lee Davey onboard.

HMAS Geelong's home port was Darwin (navy website detail) and was part of the fleet that protected the north-western coast of Australia (fisheries etc) and that is why it was berthed at Broome.

If he was 18 in 1996 it is possible that he joined HMAS Nirimba at 15 years in one of its last classes before its closure. HMAS Leeuwin had closed some years previously. General Entry at 17 would be the earliest age of enlistment other than those two establishments otherwise.

 

[Elwood_1]

How do you know he was in 'other places' on each night the girls were abducted from Claremont ? The map and timeline the WA police put out was very sketchy and missed a lot of detail. He could have been on leave in Perth for each of those nights; his parents lived in Perth.

The Navy keeps a very close eye on your movements via duty rosters etc. Everything you do and everywhere you go is documented.They knew exactly where he was at all times. It would have been a very simple thing for the police to check.

 

[STANDREID]

Wow-that's a real hot rod-it must be his parents' car.

 

[crabstick]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/w...s-police-close-in-on-claremont-serial-killer/

And there are intriguing similarities between the Perth murders and the killing in Britain. Perth police have asked for DNA records of the British suspect and are reportedly preparing to fly to London to question him. But if he does turn out to be the elusive Claremont serial killer, it will raise serious questions about how he was able to slip through the net, given he had been arrested for a sex offence in Perth about six years ago and deported.

Mark Dixie, a pub chef, was arrested in June and charged with the murder of 18-year-old model
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...ws/comments/uk_link_in_wa_serial_murders/P70/

Notice how the article says "The Post reported that Macro have DNA"?

There's only one person claiming police have DNA and that is The Post. Police won't confirm or deny and every other journo in the country is in the dark.

It's not a done deal yet.

 

[crabstick]

Yeah,like I said,police have DNA from other victim on the crime scenes because the perpetrator has left items from other crime scenes at the scene
It is more than likely an item from the rape scene

Be mindful police are DNA testing and clearing POIs

Notice how the article says "The Post reported that Macro have DNA"?

There's only one person claiming police have DNA and that is The Post. Police won't confirm or deny and every other journo in the country is in the dark.

It's not a done deal yet.

 

[crabstick]

If the perpetrator took measures to prevent DNA detection in a time when UWA was only about to start a DNA course. What does that say about the perpetrator?