GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Tortoise]

Here it is cw -

[FONT=&quot]Two days before Ellie died, Ms Cook was invited to a get-together in the house. She said: "You'd have think the children would have got up with all the noise because they had like a little party, but I didn't see no children, only a little doggy in the kitchen."

[/FONT]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-butler-trial-dad-gets-8204862

 

[Gigi-G]

Need to return to these points once my brain has settled from the info overload of yesterday ( That 50 page review /report)
All great points - as you say, the build up and then he flips under pressure. The SSRC report appears to bear this out.
Didn't know about the neighbour invite to the party - do u rem which paper that was in?( Keeping the neighbour sweet? JG has had a few "tip offs" against her in the past AFAIK, benefits. Or is it just the neighbour may have heard something recently? Was it M.Cook neighbour?)


I will go and check the report dates to see what Sutton services were doing around this date ,it's so long, here's one that was easier to find

school actions :After further prevarication and unauthorised absence in the autumn term, a meeting date had been reset for November 2013.

and
[


and pg 12 this is the final "pressure " date I can find, May 2013


Prior to that CServices had offered them support, offer not taken up. JG& BB had separated briefly in Jan 2013 and last S4C contact was March 2013.

Conc. Only recorded external "pressure" in autumn was gparents & school potentially ( and rent arrears. )

I think the end of school summer holidays was the pinnacle of things going down hill. I know it sounds odd. But I keep thinking about that puppy Minnie.
I think the puppy was bought as a sweetener. And something with what to entertain the kids.
But we all know the messes and what nots a lil puppy can get into. Puddles. Lil smelly nuggets. Chewed shoes slippers and furniture.
Nipping n jumping. Now we all also know how short tempered BB is.
I dread to think. If the poor thing got a kick. Plus it was also a rouse to blame Ellie's injuries on.
Well I do hope our out crys are answered.

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[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]Dame Justice Hogg stunned experts and ignored pleas from social services when she handed little Ellie Butler back to her parents - Ben Butler and Jennie Gray.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Asked if she felt responsible for Ellie’s death, Justice Hogg told the Mirror: “It’s not personal,” before driving away.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/judge-who-returned-ellie-butler-8250014[/FONT]

 

[Gigi-G]

Only just seen this Michelle, as I couldn't work out the asterisks - a"G0w Foond Me" .

Yes he has lost all his savings, his wife, Ellie and his peace of mind .I think that is a Brilliaint idea.

What do others think? Gigi could spead it through the Twitterverse and anyone else who uses FB etc. I Must admit, I don't use them despite having had accounts from day 1 and I definitely don't want to start using them now. ( I do enough time wasting on WS.)

Is anyone familiar with it?

I'm not familiar with it. But I have seen it to be advantageous. Jo Cox to name one such page. Has brought in hundreds of thousands. I think it's a great idea.

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[flutterby]

[FONT="]Dame Justice Hogg stunned experts and ignored pleas from [URL="http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/social-services"]social services[/URL] when she handed little Ellie Butler back to her parents - Ben Butler and Jennie Gray.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Asked if she felt responsible for Ellie’s death, Justice Hogg told the Mirror: “It’s not personal,” before driving away.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/judge-who-returned-ellie-butler-8250014[/FONT]

what? :facepalm: :gaah:


Is anyone familiar with the double jeopardy laws now? As the 2009 conviction was quashed, could BB be retrailed for those injuries? Either way, I suppose it wouldn't be pursued because of the cost and the fact he already has a life sentence

 

[Gigi-G]

Here it is cw -

[FONT=&quot]Two days before Ellie died, Ms Cook was invited to a get-together in the house. She said: "You'd have think the children would have got up with all the noise because they had like a little party, but I didn't see no children, only a little doggy in the kitchen."

[/FONT]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-butler-trial-dad-gets-8204862

I tend to think that it was as the olden days... children are meant to be seen but not heard.... well in this instance it was not seen n not heard.
Shut in their bedroom/s. Possibly sedated... possibly. A legal over the counter one is Phenergan.

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[Gigi-G]

[FONT=&quot]Dame Justice Hogg stunned experts and ignored pleas from social services when she handed little Ellie Butler back to her parents - Ben Butler and Jennie Gray.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Asked if she felt responsible for Ellie’s death, Justice Hogg told the Mirror: “It’s not personal,” before driving away.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/judge-who-returned-ellie-butler-8250014[/FONT]

Grrrr :witch:

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[flutterby]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ted-steps-to-reunite-her-with-violent-parents

Not sure if this link has already been shared?

A senior judge in the family court took “unwarranted” extra steps in reuniting a man with a violent and criminal past with his young daughter 11 months before he beat her to death, the author of a serious case review has said.

Marion Davis, a former president of the Association of Directors of Children’s Services, said: “I think the crux of the matter rests with Mrs Justice Hogg. The extra steps she took were unwarranted.”

She singled out for criticism both the judiciary and the two private social workers at Services For Children (S4C) Hogg appointed in place of social workers from the London borough of Sutton who had fought Butler’s campaign to get custody of his daughter.

The serious case review investigating what went wrong in the period before Ellie’s murder does not condemn the social workers at Sutton council, who consistently opposed her being returned either to her parents or the school and health professionals involved with her care.

“She [Hogg] gave permission for a letter exonerating Ben Butler of causing any harm to Ellie to be circulated to all agencies and said he was victim of a miscarriage of justice,” said Davis.

“This is the most extraordinary element of the whole case. To say it’s surprising is an understatement, it’s an extraordinary step to take. Once that court judgment from Mrs Justice Hogg was in place there was virtually nothing that could be done to affect the outcome for Ellie.”

The court of appeal had quashed Butler’s original conviction but not made any ruling on what had happened, merely concluding the conviction was unsound because of new scientific research which challenged the medical consensus on shaken baby syndrome.

Davies said: “If the judiciary is not significantly open and cannot learn from its own actions, questions have to be raised. The safeguarding board will be making contact with the president of the family court and the Family Justice Council. The issue about whether the judiciary should be as accountable as other agencies needs to be addressed.”

She said questions also needed to be asked about independent social workers in general, and whether they were sufficiently capable. They also “should be subject to inspection and regulation like other social workers. At the moment they are not. The lines of accountability must be clear, this case raises a lot of issues”, she said.

 

[Top Cat]

Thank you to everyone for all the posts and information. I have only just managed to read them since yesterday's verdicts. Well done y'all.
I am sure this will not be the last we hear of BB &JG.......

 

[Tortoise]

A high court judge has refused to publish a 2014 judgment on the death of Ellie Butler on the grounds that her father, who has been jailed for life for her murder, might in the future stand a retrial.

...
Mrs Justice Pauffley said the reporting of the 2014 judgment, which found Butler responsible for Ellie’s death, would be extensive and could prejudice a jury in a potential retrial. Pauffley said she was very troubled by the impact it would have on any potential criminal proceedings.

...

[FONT=&amp]Pauffley was responding to an application by the Guardian and six other media organisations for access to a full judgment, handed down privately in the high court in June 2014 by Mrs Justice King.

[/FONT]

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...uses-to-publish-ben-butler-judgment-from-2014

[FONT=&amp]More to read at link. So the fact finding judgement relating to YD's care proceedings in 2014 won't be published, unless Court of Appeal grants permission in future.

[/FONT]

 

[cottonweaver]

[FONT="]Dame Justice Hogg stunned experts and ignored pleas from [URL="http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/social-services"]social services[/URL] when she handed little Ellie Butler back to her parents - Ben Butler and Jennie Gray.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Asked if she felt responsible for Ellie’s death, Justice Hogg told the Mirror: “It’s not personal,” before driving away.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/judge-who-returned-ellie-butler-8250014[/FONT]

Tsk! No one accused her of getting "personal", rather that it was a professional failing.
We'll send her the GFundMe link if we get one started! She can dib in.

 

[cottonweaver]

A high court judge has refused to publish a 2014 judgment on the death of Ellie Butler on the grounds that her father, who has been jailed for life for her murder, might in the future stand a retrial.

...
Mrs Justice Pauffley said the reporting of the 2014 judgment, which found Butler responsible for Ellie’s death, would be extensive and could prejudice a jury in a potential retrial. Pauffley said she was very troubled by the impact it would have on any potential criminal proceedings.

...

[FONT=&]Pauffley was responding to an application by the Guardian and six other media organisations for access to a full judgment, handed down privately in the high court in June 2014 by Mrs Justice King.

[/FONT]

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...uses-to-publish-ben-butler-judgment-from-2014

[FONT=&]More to read at link. So the fact finding judgement relating to YD's care proceedings in 2014 won't be published, unless Court of Appeal grants permission in future.

[/FONT]

what's going on T? ( EDIT rhetorical , I'll go read it)

As flutterby said, they are unlikely to retry him just cause he got 23 yrs. ( waste of cash, we'll fund his third appearance at this rate)
Is this them witholding because it will open up more debate about Hogg's errors? Not read it yet.

Wow the media are getting interested now.

Give it a few weeks and there will be a Panorama prog on this case - it's in the public interest.

 

[Tortoise]

[FONT=&quot]"In one of the most chilling twists of the case Butler and Gray attempted to cover their tracks by sending Ellie's younger sibling to discover her body, something for which the child has had to undergo therapy."

[/FONT]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/ellie-butler-murder-how-the-full-tragic-story-unfolded/

 

[Tortoise]

Back later to chat cotton, have to pop out for a while

 

[cottonweaver]

this had passed me by completely

I didn' t even know there was a

full judgment, handed down privately in the high court in June 2014 by Mrs Justice King.

in the family court back then.

 

[cottonweaver]

[FONT="]"In one of the most chilling twists of the case Butler and Gray attempted to cover their tracks by sending Ellie's younger sibling to discover her body, something for which the child has had to undergo therapy."

[/FONT]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/ellie-butler-murder-how-the-full-tragic-story-unfolded/

well we said this in thread 1 didn't we.
this 2014 secret family court trial surprises me more.
So all this time JG BB knew they would prob be found guilty here in criminal courts too.

 

[cottonweaver]

In the hearing on Wednesday, Pauffley said the “expression of views [by Butler from the dock], albeit in the heat of the moment immediately after the verdict, gives a solid indication this criminal process is likely to extend to the making of an application for permission to appeal or a submission should be made that this conviction should be overturned.

Ok it's finally sinking in.

He started mouthing off after family judge delivered in 2014, saying he is going to appeal . So she won't release it. Ah ok.

Hurry up BB get your appeal in, you said you are in a hurry, we'll have to blimming well come back here in 6mths + to read/get the released 2014 judgment!

 

[Gigi-G]

A high court judge has refused to publish a 2014 judgment on the death of Ellie Butler on the grounds that her father, who has been jailed for life for her murder, might in the future stand a retrial.

...
Mrs Justice Pauffley said the reporting of the 2014 judgment, which found Butler responsible for Ellie’s death, would be extensive and could prejudice a jury in a potential retrial. Pauffley said she was very troubled by the impact it would have on any potential criminal proceedings.

...

[FONT=&amp]Pauffley was responding to an application by the Guardian and six other media organisations for access to a full judgment, handed down privately in the high court in June 2014 by Mrs Justice King.

[/FONT]

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...uses-to-publish-ben-butler-judgment-from-2014

[FONT=&amp]More to read at link. So the fact finding judgement relating to YD's care proceedings in 2014 won't be published, unless Court of Appeal grants permission in future.

[/FONT]

Well the media were on to it then... okay well time is done. No retrial now. He's gotten what he should of. Years ago.
Now the whole case needs re assessed.




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[cottonweaver]

oh my, this stinks

The media have been to court on three occasions to seek release of judgments and orders in a bid to jigsaw together what went wrong for Ellie, who was found at home with catastrophic head injuries akin to a high-speed car crash.

Media lawyer argued it should be released cause -

He said that there was public interest in the background to the horrific murder and open justice was a central plank of democracy.

He put it to Pauffley that Butler could not have a retrial unless he satisfied, in the first instance, the court of appeal that he was entitled to one. Bunting said “the ship had sailed” in relation to Ellie Butler’s death as there was widespread coverage across all media of his conviction on Tuesday.

He said Butler’s conviction was “already in the public domain” and he doubted any additional information in the King judgment could be more significant than murder.

In addition, Bunting argued, even if Butler crossed the high threshold at the court of appeal, a potential retrial would be in “the distance future” and a jury could therefore not be prejudiced.

it's a fudge then?

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...uses-to-publish-ben-butler-judgment-from-2014

 

[Gigi-G]

what's going on T? ( EDIT rhetorical , I'll go read it)

As flutterby said, they are unlikely to retry him just cause he got 23 yrs. ( waste of cash, we'll fund his third appearance at this rate)
Is this them witholding because it will open up more debate about Hogg's errors? Not read it yet.

Wow the media are getting interested now.

Give it a few weeks and there will be a Panorama prog on this case - it's in the public interest.

I read it as She (Hogg) said that the previous conviction that put BB in Jail. It would conflict with that. So it's enlightening us WHY there wasn't a full written review. At that time.
I don't think they've any grounds for appeal?

Tortoise? Supernovae? Jog? Legally Bland?

Any insight?

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