Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

[jilly]

HOW TO GET AWAY WITH MURDER: #oscarpistorius: the view from America

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-6-years-in-prison-for-girlfriends-murder/

Like I care about Oscar's "recovery". :gaah:

 

[Hope4More]

Yes, I've got a good memory when a post says something I think is outrageous and full of venom. I found the post, I misquoted, you didn't say Jodi Arias was a choir girl, just that her imagination wasn't as good as Samantha Taylors'. And that Sam Taylor's account was completely bogus and ridiculous, and how low she stooped for lurid fame and soiled dollars.

It shocked me at the time that you could compare these 2 women. I have it at hand if you want to revisit it, I'll post it. If it's not comparable now, why was it back then? A murderer, Jodi Arias, compared to an ex girlfriend of OP giving her story of her life with this man.

Thank you for (partially) clearing up what I didn't say, a year ago or whenever it was, and whatever it was, I'm sure it didn't have anything to do with comparing sentences, which is what was being discussed here earlier.

 

[mhiforme]

I agree, he will be a pariah and a target once he is on the street again. I can see lots more fights in the future.

I strongly disagree. Just as Aimee moved to London, maybe it's time for Oscar to spread his wings and leave SA. Perhaps move to the US where no one knows him and no one cares one way or another about him. With family money and his youth, he'll be in a great position to reboot his life, get married and have kids.

 

[BeachSky]

Oscar Pistorius : The Interview
is up now in its entire:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ02x8pcV4

 

[mrjitty]

Really? The SCA didn't seem to think so when they cited it in Britz v S (889/2015) [2016] ZASCA 86 (31 May 2016).

How can a person who has been found not to have confided in the court be sincere?

Both courts found him to be untruthful, so it simply wasn't open to Masipa to find him genuinely remorseful.

Exactly.

We know that the SCA was forced to over rule several of Masipa's inferences the first time around.

This is just another error of law.

The sentencing was so poorly handled I don't even find it worth analysing.

Especially the accounting is bizarre

If there were aggravating factors, these raise the bar above 15. So how do we end up at 6?

How many years are removed for each supposed mitigating factor?

And how are 9+ years discounted?

None of this was explained by the Judge.

6 is simply an outrageous sentence in comparison to the mandatory minimum of 15

The legislature will never have intended such a huge discount.

 

[mrjitty]

Masipa’s homage to exceptionalism and privilege

High Court Judge Thokozile Masipa delivered a much-needed reality check on the continued triumph of exceptionalism and white privilege in our society. The laughable six-year sentence she handed down to convicted murderer Oscar Pistorius was a reminder of how inequality penetrates and impairs every aspect of our lives. Why should the showcase trial of South Africa’s former Olympic star be any different? Judge Masipa validated his ******** version of events and his feigned remorse and told us that the “fallen hero” shouldn’t suffer because of our “unjustified outrage” at Reeva Steenkamp’s murder. So thank you My Lady for that “zombie stopper” shot in the head. By RANJENI MUNUSAMY.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...sipas-homage-to-exceptionalism-and-privilege/

This is why the NPA must appeal as her ruling will damage public confidence in the judicial system!



David Dadic
‏@DavidDadic
This is the public perception and no attempt at making the public the "bad guy" in this is going to change that...

 

[lithgow1]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...sipas-homage-to-exceptionalism-and-privilege/

This is why the NPA must appeal as her ruling will damage public confidence in the judicial system!



David Dadic
‏@DavidDadic
This is the public perception and no attempt at making the public the "bad guy" in this is going to change that...

just a wild guess but maybe in some way, on this second time round, she equated the public anger at her first judgment with the anger shown towards pistorius, making them kind of kindred spirits. she certainly seem to go on a lot about public perceptions yesterday.

and as for her seeming to criticise Barry Steenkamp's view that there was an argument, the man has every right to believe what took place on the night of his daughter's death. like everyone else, he heard pistorius' version and all the evidence and was able to see it for the BS that it was. she's a tool IMO.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Its funny to me how passion (sex) can be transposed on to violence. Biting, slapping, etc... maybe. Murder, not buying it.

Viper, don't think that is the legal definition or meaning of 'Crime of Passion.' I think it is more about acting on an impulse in the heat of the moment (sorry, no sex involved to my knowledge. Otherwise, yeah, people are such animals.)

Here's a quick Wiki-link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_passion

 

[Sillybilly]

Reminder: As per TOS, please do not post non MSM tweets.

:tyou:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Take a deep breath before reading.

Brenda Wardle@Brendawardle
Legal Analyst

s282 of the CPA deals with the antedating of a sentence in cases where a sentence or conviction is set aside on appeal.

The Court on re-sentencing (in instances where the accused has served time) may #antedate the sentence to the original date of sentencing.

I was shocked when #BarryRoux did not raise this. However, what this means in essence is that DCS are going to have a problem with the date.

The problem DCS will be confronted with is the actual date of the 6yr imprisonment term and the accused may apply for antedating.

I #JudgeMasipa were to receive such an application ito of s282 to correct the date of sentencing she might decide to antedate.

If Judge Masipa antedates the sentence to the original date of sentence this would mean that #OscarPistorius has already served 1/4.

Pistorius would then immediately become eligible for consideration for a recommendation for conversion of his sentence.

The #JudgeMasipa might of course deny the application for antedating and argue that today is the sentencing date but this must be clarified.

The possibility of antedating is an even scarier thought for me as I was shocked by the sentence.

from: https://twitter.com/BrendaWardle

 

[Marfa Lights]

Take a deep breath before reading.

Brenda Wardle@Brendawardle
Legal Analyst

s282 of the CPA deals with the antedating of a sentence in cases where a sentence or conviction is set aside on appeal.

The Court on re-sentencing (in instances where the accused has served time) may #antedate the sentence to the original date of sentencing.

I was shocked when #BarryRoux did not raise this. However, what this means in essence is that DCS are going to have a problem with the date.

The problem DCS will be confronted with is the actual date of the 6yr imprisonment term and the accused may apply for antedating.

I #JudgeMasipa were to receive such an application ito of s282 to correct the date of sentencing she might decide to antedate.

If Judge Masipa antedates the sentence to the original date of sentence this would mean that #OscarPistorius has already served 1/4.

Pistorius would then immediately become eligible for consideration for a recommendation for conversion of his sentence.

The #JudgeMasipa might of course deny the application for antedating and argue that today is the sentencing date but this must be clarified.

The possibility of antedating is an even scarier thought for me as I was shocked by the sentence.

I thought it suspicious her sentence was issued with no details about time served, to commence immediately, etc.
Wow, who knows where this is going??

 

[cottonweaver]

Take a deep breath before reading.

Brenda Wardle@Brendawardle
Legal Analyst

RSBM Yes Brenda knows her procedures better than any of the journalists/basic attorneys IMO

However I 'm hoping that we hear about the Appeal before we have to go here, to the worst case scenarios put forward by Wardle & Curlewis.

I think it will take a while for NPA to decide if they are going to appeal, because AFAIK from posts in 2014, it's more difficult to appeal sentences.
BUT I haven't given up - hope to have heard something by mid-July.

Must say, I feel very calm and unflustered about it all today, in contrast to yesterday's total bewilderment about what goes on in SA's courts.

 

[lithgow1]

RSBM Yes Brenda knows her procedures better than any of the journalists/basic attorneys IMO

However I 'm hoping that we hear about the Appeal before we have to go here, to the worst case scenarios put forward by Wardle & Curlewis.

I think it will take a while for NPA to decide if they are going to appeal, because AFAIK from posts in 2014, it's more difficult to appeal sentences.
BUT I haven't given up - hope to have heard something by mid-July.

Must say, I feel very calm and unflustered about it all today, in contrast to yesterday's total bewilderment about what goes on in SA's courts.

I am feeling a bit the same. If the law doesn't catch up with him, life will, or at least I would like to think so. Reeva is dead and as they say, nothing will bring her back. He has his life, but what kind of life will it be? Viewed by most people as a deliberate murderer, shunned by all but a few 'fans' who can offer him nothing more than balloons, platitudes and feel good self-help quotes via twitter and facebook, having to face a public who will largely scorn him if and when he ventures out while they point and whisper and stare. He would be used to that, but as a paralympian, not a pariah. Unless he is totally amoral he will live with a weight on his conscience. He can control his life, but not his nightmares. He may marry, have kids etc, but there will always be the albatross of 'murderer!' around his neck and that dead weight will remain for the rest of his life. IMO, and believing he fired in full knowledge of who was in that cubicle, he would have been better to fess up, plead for mercy and forgiveness and live the rest of his life with some dignity. But he didn't and so he has none and most people who give him any thought despise him and always will. Winner or loser? I'd say the latter.

<modsnip>

 

[mrjitty]

I thought it suspicious her sentence was issued with no details about time served, to commence immediately, etc.
Wow, who knows where this is going??

According to other lawyers the time served was used as a mitigating point.

I too found it bizarre. Normally you sentence, then deduct time in.

 

[Sherbert]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...sipas-homage-to-exceptionalism-and-privilege/

This is why the NPA must appeal as her ruling will damage public confidence in the judicial system!



David Dadic
&#8207;@DavidDadic
This is the public perception and no attempt at making the public the "bad guy" in this is going to change that...

My thoughts exactly.

What stood out for me yesterday was Masipa's palpable and arrogant disdain for the general public. Imo, she was hellbent on punishing the public, not Pistorius.

What she appears completely to have forgotten is that, as a public servant, it was her duty to deliver a sentence that instilled public confidence in the judiciary. Adopting Lemon Mousse's phraseology, the public is entitled to feel that the judicial system recognises that Reeva's life mattered. Instead, the message delivered yesterday is quite the opposite and, as a result, public confidence in the competence of the South African judiciary has been ripped to shreds for the second time.

Masipa said something about it being her duty to correct the public misconception that Pistorius had deliberately killed Reeva. Why start concerning herself with what the public may or may not misconceive when she has taken such pains to emphasise elsewhere that public opinion should play no role in her sentencing? She cannot possibly think that by delivering a sentence nine years less than the prescribed minimum, the public is going to learn its lesson and respond by saying...'We stand corrected - we must have got it wrong, after all - otherwise, Judge Masipa would definitely have given him a longer sentence.'

She should have focused on precedent and the judgement of the SCA, rather than permit her own personal hostility towards the public she exists to serve intrude on her duty to provide an appropriate sentence.

 

[Tortoise]

RSBM Yes Brenda knows her procedures better than any of the journalists/basic attorneys IMO

However I 'm hoping that we hear about the Appeal before we have to go here, to the worst case scenarios put forward by Wardle & Curlewis.

I think it will take a while for NPA to decide if they are going to appeal, because AFAIK from posts in 2014, it's more difficult to appeal sentences.
BUT I haven't given up - hope to have heard something by mid-July.

Must say, I feel very calm and unflustered about it all today, in contrast to yesterday's total bewilderment about what goes on in SA's courts.

Wish I had some of your calm. I'm feeling much angrier today than I did yesterday. It doesn't make for very easy or fluent post writing when I feel like this - bits just keep shouting out all over the place in my head.

Masipa is outrageous. I didn't think she could do it again, but she has!! Outrageous!!! Rude. Ignorant. Scornful and Vindictive. and so much more that is unprintable. SCREAM emoji! When she left the bench and said she would hang around in case there was an appeal she knew damn well what she had just delivered was completely vulgar and insulting to Reeva's family. I hope they are thick skinned. I hope they can wash away the hurt she poured on them and leave it behind them.

That judgement was totally inappropriate. Every aspect of it. It was disgusting.

There now, I haven't said half what I want to say but it's a start while others make ordered and brilliant, sensible comments. Apologies, it all seems so inarticulate but I needed to get that out.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I am feeling a bit the same. If the law doesn't catch up with him, life will, or at least I would like to think so. Reeva is dead and as they say, nothing will bring her back. He has his life, but what kind of life will it be? Viewed by most people as a deliberate murderer, shunned by all but a few 'fans' who can offer him nothing more than balloons, platitudes and feel good self-help quotes via twitter and facebook, having to face a public who will largely scorn him if and when he ventures out while they point and whisper and stare. He would be used to that, but as a paralympian, not a pariah. Unless he is totally amoral he will live with a weight on his conscience. He can control his life, but not his nightmares. He may marry, have kids etc, but there will always be the albatross of 'murderer!' around his neck and that dead weight will remain for the rest of his life. IMO, and believing he fired in full knowledge of who was in that cubicle, he would have been better to fess up, plead for mercy and forgiveness and live the rest of his life with some dignity. But he didn't and so he has none and most people who give him any thought despise him and always will. Winner or loser? I'd say the latter.

PS Cotton - your inbox is full.

I suspect that will be true for the most part-- but with Narcissistic Personality Disorders (as diagnosed by Dr. Marfa) then it seems like these types have some sort of coping mechanism that, delusional as it may be, allows them to maintain their own sense of self-righteousness and arrogance. It does not seem to disturb their enjoyment of everyday activities, although getting called a murderer in the grocery store was apparently disturbing. I don't think someone like Oscar takes it to heart though-- that is just an example of how they continue to be wronged and are victimized by an unjust society who have condemned an innocent man who was only trying to defend his life and Reeva's.

Did not stop OJ from enjoying endless rounds of golf until he got caught in his Las Vegas hotel room reverse robbery and it did not stop Joran van der Sloot from his life as an international gambler until he killed another young woman in Peru. On the contrary, I think it may enhance their own outlaw badass self-image.

 

[cottonweaver]

[video=youtube;Z_c3I5KYXpk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_c3I5KYXpk[/video]


Yesterday's news

13 mins. Worth a look as BWardle is often a dissenter from the general view.

- interview says sentence will meet the "shockingly inapt"criteria - as far as SCA is concerned.
- The adding of 1 year "stunned" her
- she uses phrase of "mockery of justice"
- why Masipa should NOT be even using the DV opinion in her judgement - it is in the "media", Nel did not argue it . GREAT POINT.

- explains precedent impact - why they MUST appeal
- Adds the point I noticed too - that concluding phrase from TM yesterday - "I'll be in my chambers if u wanna appeal boys". Irreverent attitude, petty IMO. ( not the kind of temperament needed for a HC judge hey folks?)

 

[Marfa Lights]

My thoughts exactly.

What stood out for me yesterday was Masipa's palpable and arrogant disdain for the general public. Imo, she was hellbent on punishing the public, not Pistorius.

What she appears completely to have forgotten is that, as a public servant, it was her duty to deliver a sentence that instilled public confidence in the judiciary. Adopting Lemon Mousse's phraseology, the public is entitled to feel that the judicial system recognises that Reeva's life mattered. Instead, the message delivered yesterday is quite the opposite and, as a result, public confidence in the competence of the South African judiciary has been ripped to shreds for the second time.

Masipa said something about it being her duty to correct the public misconception that Pistorius had deliberately killed Reeva. Why start concerning herself with what the public may or may not misconceive when she has taken such pains to emphasise elsewhere that public opinion should play no role in her sentencing? She cannot possibly think that by delivering a sentence nine years less than the prescribed minimum, the public is going to learn its lesson and respond by saying...'We stand corrected - we must have got it wrong, after all - otherwise, Judge Masipa would definitely have given him a longer sentence.'

She should have focused on precedent and the judgement of the SCA, rather than permit her own personal hostility towards the public she exists to serve intrude on her duty to provide an appropriate sentence.

Well said. Would be perfect to send to Nel and the SCA but I will leave that up to you.

 

[Tortoise]

Another scream! ARGGHHHH!

Lol, I think I need your oak tree cotton.