Identified! CT - Stonington (Ledyard), WhtFem UP8909, 18-30, JNHS 1917 Class Ring, Lady Clairol hair roller set, May'74 - Linda Sue Childers

[Roselvr]

Just entered her in Doe Net

 

[Alleykins]

It's always so good to see activity (with possible matches for this UID)!


I think CJE could be a match, but I can't seem to find any info other than Linton High School (which is the photo used in Namus).

I recently noticed the DNA status on the UID's Namus profile, "Insufficient DNA for profiling". So, the matching is now much more difficult. (This fact saddens me so much, as this case just won't "let me be"... it's always in the back of my mind. I've even found a bit more info on the organized crime aspect... which I find so strangely fascinating, but it doesn't help with identification).

Also, there are dental records for the UID, but there are none for CJE.

(IMO) we need to find additional information to help in possibly linking CJE to the UID.

What do investigators do in that case? Let's say CJE has no dental records because they were so old they were destroyed or because she never went to the dentist, and there's no way to get DNA from the UP. How do they make a match? Can one of her relatives look at the items and say, that's my ring, or that was my car she drove, or that phone number on the bill belonged to our aunt? That sort thing.

 

[Roselvr]

What do investigators do in that case? Let's say CJE has no dental records because they were so old they were destroyed or because she never went to the dentist, and there's no way to get DNA from the UP. How do they make a match? Can one of her relatives look at the items and say, that's my ring, or that was my car she drove, or that phone number on the bill belonged to our aunt? That sort thing.

There is one military base that is doing newer testing to extract DNA from older remains. It's possible the remains get sent there. They were able to get samples from the Mendocino Jane Doe's recently identified as Kerry Graham and Francine Kimble.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I recently noticed the DNA status on the UID's Namus profile, "Insufficient DNA for profiling". So, the matching is now much more difficult. (This fact saddens me so much, as this case just won't "let me be"... it's always in the back of my mind. I've even found a bit more info on the organized crime aspect... which I find so strangely fascinating, but it doesn't help with identification).

DNA technology is still developing so perhaps they can revisit this in 10 years or so when things may have moved on sufficiently for them to be able to extract a profile.

 

[fred&edna]

What do investigators do in that case? Let's say CJE has no dental records because they were so old they were destroyed or because she never went to the dentist, and there's no way to get DNA from the UP. How do they make a match? Can one of her relatives look at the items and say, that's my ring, or that was my car she drove, or that phone number on the bill belonged to our aunt? That sort thing.

Yes, from what I understand, they use any and all "other" evidence (along with any possible family info from the missing person) to try to make a match.

Somewhat worrisome is the fact the JNHS ring could have been stolen. Also, the car could have been a (not-reported) stolen vehicle. Our UID was caught up in a well-connected gang of bank robbers, car-thieves, murderers, etc... with definite ties to organized crime.

I wish detectives could/would find (and question) the two witnesses who met the UID (and testified against the man convicted of her murder) as they may remember more about this young woman. However, both have been in the witness protection program since the early to mid-70s, and so many years have passed... they may not remember anything at all.

 

[Alleykins]

Thanks for clarifying

 

[rats]

The case file was modified a few days ago, so I decided to post a reminder of the rule outs:

Rosemary Calandriello 1952 New Jersey
Cathy Moulton 1955 Maine
Denise Sheehy 1954 New York

 

[Alleykins]

Cornelia isn't ruled out yet. I wonder if they even took our suggestion seriously.

 

[alliemay]

Cornelia isn't ruled out yet. I wonder if they even took our suggestion seriously.

I would be curious to know that, I felt she looked like a good match. A while back I submitted Mary Brosley, Mary had a metal plate put in her hip years before she went missing. I asked if they found any metal with the bones. I was told the match was inconclusive and heard no more from them. These things could take a while but if they are reminded often it seems like you get a response from them.

 

[rats]

Who are you guys contacting to report these suggestions?

 

[Alleykins]

Who are you guys contacting to report these suggestions?

I can't remember to be honest, it's been so long. I don't think it was NamUs, though.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Has Rosemarie Roginski been considered. Was from PA. There were a lot of calls made to PA by the UID. Timing seems right. Might also have been hiding from someone who was after her. Or, maybe it's just the haircut that gets me.

http://pennsylvaniamissing.com/roginskirosemarie.html

 

[alliemay]

I think the hair style may be part artist rendition and witness memory so I wouldn't toss this one out based on hair style. They didn't find the body for four years so its hard to say what length and style her hair was when she was alive. I also believe it was Namus that I submitted to.

 

[Roselvr]

I can't remember to be honest, it's been so long. I don't think it was NamUs, though.

NamUs would be easy enough to check, you should have a copy in your email sent folder.

 

[Alleykins]

I believe the actual murder of this JD took place in 1970, which would rule out Rosemarie. Her whereabouts are chronicled in the Beaver Times up to 1972.

Rose, I'm thinking I sent my tip through a tip line on one of the police sites.

 

[Onfortuneswheel]

I kind of got wrapped up in this one over the past few days and worked on putting together a timeline for Carmichael based on past posts and newspaper articles. Let me know if I'm missing anything. Looking through his history, I think it likely that Carmichael had only recently met our Jane Doe. I don't know any other time when he could have met her and police would have easily been able to cross-examine visitor logs for his numerous jail stints.

1964 October – ROBBERY – Madison, WI – Athletic Store
Accomplice: Leonard J. Amabile, 19, Hudson, MA
Address: 207 Owens Rd., Monona, WI

1964 November – PRISON – Madison, WI – Sentenced to 1 year in Green Bay State Reformatory

1965 - PRISON

1967 July – ROBBERY – Boston, MA – Furniture Store

1968 June 23 (or July 4) – BROWN – Brown involved in shooting incident of a sailor in Boston’s Chinatown section. Originally charged with assault and released under $20k bond. Charge later changed to murder when sailor died. By that time, Brown had jumped bail.

1968 October 16 – ROBBERY – Brockton, MA – Bank
Accomplice: Roger Brown, 22; William Royce, 22
1968 October – ARRESTED – Plymouth, MA
Address: 506 E. 7th St.., South Boston
1968 October – FUGITIVE – Plymouth, MA – Escape from Plymouth County House of Correction with Brown and Royce

1968 November 7 – ROBBERY – Manchester, CT – Bank
Accomplice: Roger Joseph Brown; Richard Labbe; Lucille Civitelli [Gerald J. Podolske; Thomas N. Dunleavy]

1968 November – BROWN – Brown told lawyers that he and Carmichael went to Seattle and California after the robbery

1968 December 11 – ARRESTED – Reno, NV – Reported by a casino guard suspicious about the volume of their gambling; Wrapped money was linked to a series of 9 bank robberies in the New England area
Accomplice: Roger Brown (Auburn); Gerald Podolske (Boston, MA)

1969 January – TRIAL – Plymouth, MA – Indicted and charged with escape and other charges resulting from robbery of Brockton bank

1969 March – LABBE – PRISON – Sentenced to 15 years in federal prison

1970 July – TRIAL – Hartford, CT – Pleads guilty to 11/1968 bank robbery

1970 October 5 – FUGITIVE – Walpole, MA – Escapes during transport from Massachusetts State Prison to Hartford, CT for sentencing related to 11/1968 bank robbery
Accomplice: Roger J. Brown (Lewiston, ME)

1970 October 28 – CAR – Green 1964 Oldsmobile bought in Bridgeport

1970 December 15 – CAR – 1964 Green Oldsmobile registered in ME to David Skaggs of Portland, ME, an alias and fictitious address used by Carmichael

1970 December 22 – ROBBERY – Hamilton, NJ – Bank
Accomplice: Roger J. Brown

1970 December 22 – BROWN – Sandra Main, 17, says she eloped with her “fiancé” Roger J. Brown, and they and “another couple” stopped at an inn in CT, the men counted $60k in cash and said they had robbed a bank

1970 December 28-29 – Ledyard, CT – Carmichael and UID arrive and stay with DeFietas and Rainello in Ledyard. UID expresses fear of getting caught/having her new identity questioned to Rainello. “Just after Christmas, a friend of theirs brought Carmichael and his girl friend to the house and said the two needed a place to stay because they were on the run from a robbery in New Jersey” – friend is said to be James Gardner

1970 December 30 – Noank, CT – UID as Lorraine Stahl opens bank account and move into Noank rental house

1970 December 31 – HOMICIDE – Noank, CT - Donald Brandt and DeFreitas murder Carmichael and UID

1971 January – BROWN – ARRESTED – Berlin, NH (article states that he was involved in 14 bank robberies with Carmichael in a 3 month period following their escape in 1968)

1977 – BROWN – St. Albans, VT – FUGITIVE/DEATH – Escapes from prison and killed in a high-speed chase

 

[fred&edna]

I kind of got wrapped up in this one over the past few days and worked on putting together a timeline for Carmichael based on past posts and newspaper articles. Let me know if I'm missing anything. Looking through his history, I think it likely that Carmichael had only recently met our Jane Doe. I don't know any other time when he could have met her and police would have easily been able to cross-examine visitor logs for his numerous jail stints.

1970 October 28 – CAR – Green 1964 Oldsmobile bought in Bridgeport

1970 December 15 – CAR – 1964 Green Oldsmobile registered in ME to David Skaggs of Portland, ME, an alias and fictitious address used by Carmichael

1970 December 22 – ROBBERY – Hamilton, NJ – Bank
Accomplice: Roger J. Brown

1970 December 22 – BROWN – Sandra Main, 17, says she eloped with her “fiancé” Roger J. Brown, and they and “another couple” stopped at an inn in CT, the men counted $60k in cash and said they had robbed a bank

Thank you for this timeline! I want to do some additional research and I'm hoping you might provide links to news reports related to the four items I snipped from your post.

 

[Brownie33]

Just saw this case by chance. There are so many clues, its hard to understand why she hasnt been identified.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Skigirl]

Thank you for this timeline! I want to do some additional research and I'm hoping you might provide links to news reports related to the four items I snipped from your post.

I agree, those four are very interesting. I wonder if he met our UID sometime between his purchase of the car and the bank robbery in NJ. I don't think I had ever heard that he told anyone that he and the UID were on the run from a bank robbery in *New Jersey*. Given that we know she lived there, that seems entirely possible.

 

[fred&edna]

Onfortuneswheel sent me additional info, and the name of the woman in one of the reports is actually MAIDEN, not Main.

Many of those involved in these associated robbery cases used aliases, so even with the correct spelling, I have no idea if this was her real name.

Also, I found it interesting that LE "thought" the UID's name might have been "Sandy". Quite a coinkydink.