TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

[BigCityAccountant]

I'm currently working on tracking down a woman who married a stockbroker in AZ, 8 months prior to his death. The last name is Johnson and his father worked for Adolf Coors Co. in Golden Colorado. He died in an airplane crash in Detroit, I believe. First name M@rsh@ll.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I am trying, lol. So what you are saying is that she could pick up a copy of a bypass trust for a living person? Could that indicate she was preparing to move across country with an elderly/medically frail person named in the Trust, like her mother for example? Can a Trust be transferred to a different state/county? I know nothing about Trusts, lol.

No, generally a trust is prepared prior to death (could be 20 years beforehand or 1 month beforehand). It specifies an executor (person who administers the trust) and beneficiaries. The executor can be the beneficiary, but not with a B Trust. It is generally used by wealthy people to minimize the estate tax. The trust is not state specific, meaning it can be prepared in CA and then the person could move to Maine, but the administration of the trust will generally be handled in CA, where it was written once the person dies. I hope that makes sense.

If I had to guess either mom and dad divorced or mom died and dad remarried or vice versa (if mom was the wealthy one) The reason I say divorced is because the trust would have had to been in place prior to the divorce and negotiated during the divorce to allow the 1st wife to remain on the trust.

This might help explain it better...

www.davisgraves.com/files/2011/01/Bypass-Trust.pdf

 

[mrseeker]

So what is filed with the county when you create a bypass trust? what document would they record? Seems it must be related to the Turner family or the clerk might think it strange someone wanting their BC as BST also wants the bypass trust filed by Mr. and Mrs. Jones for example. This is out of my league. If she did get some document, perhaps that explains her reason for getting the BST idaho ID. Maybe she had planned to use this document for collateral to obtain something like a loan. then its off to dallas with her name change.

 

[Gardener1850]

No, generally a trust is prepared prior to death (could be 20 years beforehand or 1 month beforehand). It specifies an executor (person who administers the trust) and beneficiaries. The executor can be the beneficiary, but not with a B Trust. It is generally used by wealthy people to minimize the estate tax. The trust is not state specific, meaning it can be prepared in CA and then the person could move to Maine, but the administration of the trust will generally be handled in CA, where it was written once the person dies. I hope that makes sense.

If I had to guess either mom and dad divorced or mom died and dad remarried or vice versa (if mom was the wealthy one) The reason I say divorced is because the trust would have had to been in place prior to the divorce and negotiated during the divorce to allow the 1st wife to remain on the trust.

This might help explain it better...

www.davisgraves.com/files/2011/01/Bypass-Trust.pdf

Thanks! I was thinking about Spring/Summer1988's claims about Lori living with her mom in the Dallas area in 1988 and thinking maybe the Bypass trust was hers. Not that i trust SS1988 to be completely truthful, but it was just a thought I had. So it sounds like it's anyone's guess who the trust she picked up was for. Could she get a copy of a Bypass Trust for someone she is not related to? Sounds like she would have to be named as executor/beneficiary or the lawyer of that person? If she was not really an executor/beneficiary, could that have been a second scheme/fraud she enacted we don't know about? How could an unrelated party use a Bypass trust to their advantage? What could be gained?

 

[Katinka]

You can search Kern Co records here.

Official documents
Document class
Trust

http://recorderonline.co.kern.ca.us/

 

[Gardener1850]

So what is filed with the county when you create a bypass trust? what document would they record? Seems it must be related to the Turner family or the clerk might think it strange someone wanting their BC as BST also wants the bypass trust filed by Mr. and Mrs. Jones for example. This is out of my league. If she did get some document, perhaps that explains her reason for getting the BST idaho ID. Maybe she had planned to use this document for collateral to obtain something like a loan. then its off to dallas with her name change.

Hmmm...I wonder if the bypass trust was one for her husband (or a "claimed" husband)? Since she was a woman, her having a different last name than Turner would not necessarily raise any red flags. She could claim it was her married name. Another thought--could a grandparent have named her in their by-pass trust? Or she would say it was her grandparent or step parent, etc. I think she could get away with getting it with a different last name but I don't know what ID/paperwork would have been required.

 

[Laughing]

If our not-yet-Lori was living with her Mom, or perhaps working as live-in caretaker of someone, there would have been enough local familiarity for the clerk to give her a copy of that person's trust document.

along with that person's "daughter's" birth certificate since "they are moving."

But I get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions.


JMHO :seeya:

 

[sunnynz]

I was just watching a Youtube video about Lori here: [video=youtube;0reymFp2Q0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0reymFp2Q0E[/video]

If you scroll down in the comments, someone made a comment a week ago that he knew Lori as she was a casual friend of his mothers in Arlington Texas. There's a whole dialogue between him and one or two others, I don't know if I'm allowed to post that here, so I just provided the Youtube link. He also mentions his real name in one of his responses. If this is redundant I am so sorry, but I didn't see anything about it as I looked through the most recent posts. I was excited when I saw it, I just had to post it right away. I have not sent this person a message or anything - I'm not very experienced here, and have mostly been an observer, but perhaps one of you more seasoned folks could reach out to him, if you think this could be a good lead for information? Maybe his mother would know of other people who knew Lori, maybe a little better than she did (not that anyone really did, right). He claims that she often acted kind of childish and she was maybe a little too into Disney stuff? That's something I haven't heard. He even mentioned Chelsea's Boutique, a tearoom that offered services for little girls to dress up and have special days, as he put it. I haven't read all of the comments for the video yet, but I'm going to keep looking.

Thanks for posting but yes we have discussed this one in depth - it was only a week or so ago from memory but the boards have been so busy that you may need to scroll back a few pages to find the posts. It is one of the users on here who is the one whose been asking the questions in the comments.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

So what is filed with the county when you create a bypass trust? what document would they record? Seems it must be related to the Turner family or the clerk might think it strange someone wanting their BC as BST also wants the bypass trust filed by Mr. and Mrs. Jones for example. This is out of my league. If she did get some document, perhaps that explains her reason for getting the BST idaho ID. Maybe she had planned to use this document for collateral to obtain something like a loan. then its off to dallas with her name change.

That is an excellent question. There would be no reason to get documents for 2 different people~~~unless perhaps you work for a law firm that is requesting those docs??? Maybe that is the Ben Perkins connection??

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hmmm...I wonder if the bypass trust was one for her husband (or a "claimed" husband)? Since she was a woman, her having a different last name than Turner would not necessarily raise any red flags. She could claim it was her married name. Another thought--could a grandparent have named her in their by-pass trust? Or she would say it was her grandparent or step parent, etc. I think she could get away with getting it with a different last name but I don't know what ID/paperwork would have been required.

Yes, Gardener~~both scenario's are plausible. However, if her current name was J***ston and she told them her ID was her married name, then she would be requesting a birth certificate for her maiden name???

What that would mean though is her real first name would have to be Becky and she wouldn't be they girl I'm looking for...have you been able to dig up anything on her??? I cannot find anything~~no marriage cert, no currently living at X, no other family connections to maiden name, etc.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

You can search Kern Co records here.

Official documents
Document class
Trust

http://recorderonline.co.kern.ca.us/

Awesome! Thanks!!!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Thanks! I was thinking about Spring/Summer1988's claims about Lori living with her mom in the Dallas area in 1988 and thinking maybe the Bypass trust was hers. Not that i trust SS1988 to be completely truthful, but it was just a thought I had. So it sounds like it's anyone's guess who the trust she picked up was for. Could she get a copy of a Bypass Trust for someone she is not related to? Sounds like she would have to be named as executor/beneficiary or the lawyer of that person? If she was not really an executor/beneficiary, could that have been a second scheme/fraud she enacted we don't know about? How could an unrelated party use a Bypass trust to their advantage? What could be gained?

The only thing with a fraud scenario would be to go to a bank and pose and the beneficiary to withdraw money. However, then the person would have to know where the money was to begin with. It wouldn't or shouldn't be in the trust document.

 

[sunnynz]

Hmmm...I wonder if the bypass trust was one for her husband (or a "claimed" husband)? Since she was a woman, her having a different last name than Turner would not necessarily raise any red flags. She could claim it was her married name. Another thought--could a grandparent have named her in their by-pass trust? Or she would say it was her grandparent or step parent, etc. I think she could get away with getting it with a different last name but I don't know what ID/paperwork would have been required.

Yes, would love the input of a legal expert on this one. It seems like she's either using a B Trust document to facilitate a fraud of some kind (but why and how??), or she had a very rich husband (either dead or alive) and she was trying to work out how to leave the relationship with some of their assets, or it was her parents' Trust. Those feel like the most obvious to me.

This is a GREAT find by the way. Wonder if Velling overlooked this and didn't think to find out what the second document was that she requested, or whether he already knows and it didn't lead anywhere.

Every time I think we've reached a state of limbo someone finds some new info, it's amazing.

 

[SavetheQueen]

I'm repeating a thought that has been mentioned in this forum in the past, but it's been a while since it's been brought up. If for no other reason than to keep people thinking about it -- either as a clue to LEK's birth name or her personality.

In every other case of identity theft that I've heard of, the perpetrator simply assumes the name & as much of the other's history as reasonably possible. But in this case, once LEK began the change over she chose a whole new name for herself. As far as anyone knows, she used the name "Becky Sue Turner" very briefly: once to get her Idaho ID, a second time in a Texas court room to change her name to Lori Erica Kennedy. And maybe a third time when she obtained BST's birth certificate in Bakersfield. If any name for her new identity would work, why didn't she remain BST? AFAIK, no "Howto change your identity" handbook suggests performing this additional step. In other words, she picked that name after some thought & thus for some reason.

What was that reason she picked the name "Lori Erica Kennedy" for herself? Did it have some special significance for her?

There has been some discussion of the significance of this name in older threads. One person noted that it was a common birth name in the 1960s. Another poster suggested her birth name likely began with an "L", & she picked Lori to handle accidents where she began to accidentally sign her birth name, & could recover by writing "Lori". Still another noted that "Erica" was the name of a character of a popular tv soap opera in the late 1980s. And saving the most trivial observation for last, "Kennedy" is a common Irish-American family name, very few of whom are even distantly related to the president.

If we knew more about her, I would eagerly make some intelligent guesses, or even suggest some plausible theories, why she picked this name. But I've tried to be cautious about this case, & except for noting that this name was her intentional choice, & must have some significance to her, I'll leave it to the rest of you to speculate further.

Here's a theory, totally random, that I'll throw out there. Now days, the Social Security Administration has a program that gives a new social security number to victims of domestic violence, witnesses who provide court testimony, and a couple of others. This is not federal witness protection. And there are varying degrees of how tied to your old SSN that it can be done depending on the situation. I'm not sure how long this program has been in place with SSA. Maybe LEK really IS LEK. Maybe instead of going through the legal hoops and waiting period of getting a new SSN, she grabbed the BST ID, used it to get the SSN, and changed the name on the SSN to her name, and then she's on the move. Her name is common, but she's disappeared under her old SSN. Just a thought.

*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[BigCityAccountant]

187037735 09/24/1987 6 Trust Agreement PERKINS ROBERT WALTER (R)
PERKINS ROBERT WALTER TR (E)


hum???

 

[Linda9681]

Regarding the JP name on the note: no one has been able to find a JP connected to BP. Could Ben the attorney have had a secretary or other employee named Jennifer? Maybe she wasn't named JP, but was Jennifer at the Perkins office?

My theory is its not Perkins but Perk ( INS) and now with the b-trust INS meaning insurance may fit. I have a long story why I think this but can't post due to forum rules

To me it appears INS was written first, then Jennifer Perk after at a later time

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[Linda9681]

That is an excellent question. There would be no reason to get documents for 2 different people~~~unless perhaps you work for a law firm that is requesting those docs??? Maybe that is the Ben Perkins connection??

And if she were randomly picking a name from a grave or whatever, how would she know about a trust?


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[Gardener1850]

187037735 09/24/1987 6 Trust Agreement PERKINS R* W* (R)
PERKINS R* W* TR (E)

hum???

I stared out the first names just in case....
He was old enough to be Lori's grandfather.
He died in 2002: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/bakersfield/obituary.aspx?n=robert-walter-perkins&pid=3442684
Pictures of him and his wife on Ancestry. Nothing especially similar to Lori except they are white with dark hair and similar eyebrows, but grandparents can look really different. Or she could have been related to his second wife. I'm thinking that him living until 2002 might rule out a FLEK connection though unless he was a victim or Lori's fraud somehow in regards to his estate. Why else would she get a copy of his Bypass trust in 1988?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I stared out the first names just in case....
He was old enough to be Lori's grandfather.
He died in 2002: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/bakersfield/obituary.aspx?n=robert-walter-perkins&pid=3442684
Pictures of him and his wife on Ancestry. Nothing especially similar to Lori except they are white with dark hair and similar eyebrows, but grandparents can look really different. Or she could have been related to his second wife. I'm thinking that him living until 2002 might rule out a FLEK connection though unless he was a victim or Lori's fraud somehow in regards to his estate. Why else would she get a copy of his Bypass trust in 1988?

That was just one trust that I happened to have found on the site...because the name was Perkins I posted it here...It may not be related....

 

[Katinka]

That is an excellent question. There would be no reason to get documents for 2 different people~~~unless perhaps you work for a law firm that is requesting those docs??? Maybe that is the Ben Perkins connection??

That's my assumption. He called in on Friday and drove to Bakersfield on Monday to pick up both documents.