Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[CuriousCricket]

We don't know if a gun was missing. If they stole the gun from the purse why leave the ammo?

Likely, in my mind, that Jillian had the gun, fully loaded, out to try to protect herself and Veronica. The full magazine in the purse was likely an extra for additional ammo. Many people I know who carry also have a spare magazine. Do we know what caliber was in the magazine in the purse?

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

The search warrant is for those objects as reason for the search. I assume JK husband gave a description of the gun and how she carries it. 2 warrants in that link give the reason for the search as the same items. I doubt they found the phones and gun in the T's truck and found them again on Beasley's land. Just saying...

 

[PommyMommy]

In a link someone posted, with the search warrants (?), when we got the freezer info, one of those documents listed both Veronica's and Jilian's as found and included the phone numbers. Did I read that wrong?

I think you may be referring to this article?

Search warrants reveal new details in Texas County double murder case

NewsChannel 10 obtained over a dozen search warrants related to the investigation of two Kansas women’s deaths.

www.newschannel10.com

My understanding is that the (2 of 4) warrants are to search the Twombly's truck and the Beasley property for evidence being concealed, ie: VB and JK's phones among other items. Below the description of the items, the search warrant states "All of which is subject to being lawfully seized..." '

VB's phone # ends in 8307. JK's in 5788. Neither of those phone numbers are mentioned in the affidavits as being found.

See page 3 of Affidavit of PC for Cole Twombly for the numbers of the phones found: https://ktul.com/resources/pdf/7b4d818f-4930-4ef8-8b11-1c37ccf87680-texascountycasecourtdocs.pdf

 

[Seattle1]

We don't know if a gun was missing. If they stole the gun from the purse why leave the ammo?

From the actual court documents published thus far, I think it's safe to assume JK's gun is missing.

A search warrant is not a blank page. For a Judge to authorize and/or sign the warrant, there has to be probable cause, and LE must identify specific items they are searching for that they have reason to believe was probably used in the criminal offense described in the warrant. After the search warrant is executed, LE must inventory what they collected and "return the warrant" to the Court. No warrant return includes JK's gun in the inventory.

Here, we have a very specific weapon detailed on the search warrant that I presume was the weapon that belonged to JK from information LE learned from her family. JK's family would know if the gun was missing from her home and/or whether or not she carried it with her.

Just like we learned prior to the search warrants that VB's eyeglasses were found on the roadway, we know that JK's handbag with the magazine was also found in or near the Kia SUV.

IMO, the reason LE recovered the magazine and not the gun was that JK probably had the handgun on her person when confronted but not the magazine, and the perps had no interest in taking JK's handbag and left it behind. JMO

 

[bluevioletfour]

The black ka-bar knife that was found is a fairly expensive knife. See sample pic of “black sheathed ka-bar knives”. Blades are up to 7 inches long, priced easily at $200-$300 and up. Ka-bar knives were standard issue to USMC (marines) until after WWII. Then a company in Canada got the contract.

KA-BAR: Manufactured in the USA

There are three very important letters that separate these KA-BAR knives from all others - U.S.A. Check out the KA-BAR knives lucky enough to be born in the US of A.

www.ka-bar.com

 

[bluevioletfour]

Isn't that the type of knife that Kohberger allegedly used?

 

[realanastasia]

Isn't that the type of knife that Kohberger allegedly used?

It is—I recall many pages of discussion about that specific type of weapon over on that thread here.

 

[Cool Cats]

From the actual court documents published thus far, I think it's safe to assume JK's gun is missing.

A search warrant is not a blank page. For a Judge to authorize and/or sign the warrant, there has to be probable cause, and LE must identify specific items they are searching for that they have reason to believe was probably used in the criminal offense described in the warrant. After the search warrant is executed, LE must inventory what they collected and "return the warrant" to the Court. No warrant return includes JK's gun in the inventory.

Here, we have a very specific weapon detailed on the search warrant that I presume was the weapon that belonged to JK from information LE learned from her family. JK's family would know if the gun was missing from her home and/or whether or not she carried it with her.

Just like we learned prior to the search warrants that VB's eyeglasses were found on the roadway, we know that JK's handbag with the magazine was also found in or near the Kia SUV.

IMO, the reason LE recovered the magazine and not the gun was that JK probably had the handgun on her person when confronted but not the magazine, and the perps had no interest in taking JK's handbag and left it behind. JMO

I would like to see these search Warrants and see the gun details, do you have a link to all the search Warrants? Thanks. All I have seen is her gun was missing from her purse, to me this means she herself could have left her gun at home. When I remove something from my purse then it is "missing from my purse."

If I remove my wallet from my purse it is "missing" not stolen. I do not see evidence that the 5 killers stole her gun.

 

[Artis]

I would like to see these search Warrants and see the gun details, do you have a link to all the search Warrants? Thanks. All I have seen is her gun was missing from her purse, to me this means she herself could have left her gun at home. When I remove something from my purse then it is "missing from my purse."

If I remove my wallet from my purse it is "missing" not stolen. I do not see evidence that the 5 killers stole her gun.

Sometimes perps like to keep souvenirs. I'd be asking T.A. Maybe she wanted all the photos of the kids, like any nice grandma would.

Replying to myself to add that it appears that VB and JK's phones were found in the Twombleys' 1991 Chevrolet 1500 pickup truck, per the search warrants linked upthread.

Linking again here for convenience: Search Warrants

It's in the first Affidavit for Search Warrant after the main article.

Edited to add: read the entire Affidavit for Search Warrant

(Edit to clarify that the above search warrants link was Muddy K's post)

 

[Seattle1]

I would like to see these search Warrants and see the gun details, do you have a link to all the search Warrants? Thanks. All I have seen is her gun was missing from her purse, to me this means she herself could have left her gun at home. When I remove something from my purse then it is "missing from my purse."

If I remove my wallet from my purse it is "missing" not stolen. I do not see evidence that the 5 killers stole her gun.

See search warrant "SW-2024-6" for the gun description. The inventory from the returned warrant is the last pages.

Let's not get hung up on semantics. It doesn't follow that personal property that was in the victims possession when they left home is missing or lost given what happened to them. The property has not been recovered because the perps haven't given it up. MOO

Search warrants reveal new details in Texas County double murder case

NewsChannel 10 obtained over a dozen search warrants related to the investigation of two Kansas women’s deaths.

www.newschannel10.com

 

[ClearAhead]

Replying to myself to add that it appears that VB and JK's phones were found in the Twombleys' 1991 Chevrolet 1500 pickup truck, per the search warrants linked upthread.

Linking again here for convenience: Search Warrants

It's in the first Affidavit for Search Warrant after the main article.

Edited to add: read the entire Affidavit for Search Warrant

(Edit to clarify that the above search warrants link was Muddy K's post)

Yes there were two cellphones recovered from the Twombley’s truck but the warrant also allowed seizure of “all other evidence of the crime of murder”. So LE indeed seized two cellphones but required yet another search warrant to search the contents of the cellphones, strongly suggesting they believed the cellphones found in Twombley’s truck were involved in the commission of the crime. Nowhere is it stated the recovered cellphones belonged to the victims.

We know the final activity related to Veronica’s and Jillian’s cellphones occurred shortly after the attack, so their cellphones couldn’t have been tracked to the burial site.

https://kfor.com/news/local/court-documents-say-bodies-of-murdered-kansas-women-found-in-freezer/

“Documents state that Cole and Cora Twombly had cellphones in a truck they were driving at the time of their arrest with information on the devices linking them both to the site the two murdered women were abducted from and the burial site...”

 

[Seattle1]

Likely, in my mind, that Jillian had the gun, fully loaded, out to try to protect herself and Veronica. The full magazine in the purse was likely an extra for additional ammo. Many people I know who carry also have a spare magazine. Do we know what caliber was in the magazine in the purse?

From the warrant, LE was searching for .380 acp but I don't recall the magazine description found with the purse to include the caliber info.

 

[Error505]

It's too detailed for me to believe it was what they hoped for. How would they know it had 1 in the chamber ? I just think they have found all that stuff and don't have to tell us(everything)of what they have.Really my opinion I gathered from reading the daggone thing over and over again.

Adding another previous post with explanation of items probably found in Twomblys truck
Post in thread 'OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*'
Found Deceased - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

I agree with your conclusion 100%. The warrant isn’t exactly easy to understand for me, bc it’s not known what they actually found! But it’s a very specific description on the gun instead of just naming the kind of gun Jilian carried. You’re spot on. Thank you.
MOO
EBM to add link

 

[Ksfarmer8]

I agree with your conclusion 100%. The warrant isn’t exactly easy to understand for me, bc it’s not known what they actually found! But it’s a very specific description on the gun instead of just naming the kind of gun Jilian carried. You’re spot on. Thank you.
MOO

A bit of speculation regarding the "missing" handgun.
The gun was most likely a SPECTRUM model Taurus and they come with two magazines. One mag was in the gun and the other was in Kelley's purse. This particular gun, which is a great CC gun, Is what is called a double action meaning the trigger requires substantial force to fire the gun. For that reason the gun is designed to be carried with a round in the chamber, no safety on the gun, so to fire the gun the trigger must be pulled. There is no safety per se and the only way to fire it is to pull the trigger which requires some effort. It can be dropped or whatever but as long as the trigger is not pulled it will not accidentally discharge so it is safe to carry the gun with a round in the chamber.
Many other CC pistols use this same double action principle for simplicity and safety. The simplicity is that one can carry the gun safely with a round in the chamber yet to fire the gun all one has to do is pull the trigger. When the adrenaline is flowing the harder trigger pull is hardly noticed.
JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Authorities have not revealed what exactly caused Butler and Kelley's deaths, but warrants noted that the scene around their car showed "evidence of a severe injury," with blood left behind on the road

Missing womens' bodies found buried on farm property linked to grandma accused in complex murder plan, documents show

Court documents reveal new details about the murders of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley in rural Oklahoma earlier this year.

www.cbsnews.com

Inside Cora and Cole Twombly’s truck, cops find a Taurus 380 handgun with a full magazine of hollow point ammunition and a live round in the chamber, stun guns, cat litter used for liquid absorption of trace evidence, biological/DNA evidence, digital photos, special scans, and all other evidence of the crime of murder

KANSAS MOMS’ BODIES STUFFED IN ICE CHEST, BURIED IN COW PASTURE, BLOODY CLOTHES, TASER, DUCT TAPE

CRIME Stories with Nancy Grace

www.crimeonline.com

 

[Seattle1]

Inside Cora and Cole Twombly’s truck, cops find a Taurus 380 handgun with a full magazine of hollow point ammunition and a live round in the chamber, stun guns, cat litter used for liquid absorption of trace evidence, biological/DNA evidence, digital photos, special scans, and all other evidence of the crime of murder

^^rsbm

Looks like NG's Crimeonline Staff got the facts wrong, again. The search warrant for the truck does not support this report.

The police inventory from the truck (SW-2024-13) was limited to only the following:

From the vehicle, described as: 1991 Chevrolet 1500 pickup blue
and grey in color, bearing OK tag:IJF605, VIN 2GCEC|9Z2M1|75252;

The following items were seized:
l. Digital photographs taken of vehicle and contents.
2. White iPhone
3. Black iPhone
4. White cloth gloves

https://www.scribd.com/document/734800221/SW-24-13

 

[Seattle1]

Looks like NG's Crimeonline Staff got the facts wrong, again. The search warrant for the truck does not support this report.

TA's attorneys filed a Motion to Seal the Search Warrants to protect TA's right to a fair trial, and cite that this is a capital case, and also reference NG's sensationalizing headlines and incorrect information!

https://www.scribd.com/document/732864007/T-Adams-CF-24-72-Mtn-to-Seal-Warrants

 

[Seattle1]

OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 ******MEDIA ONLY, NO DISCUSSION*********

https://www.newschannel10.com/2024/05/21/search-warrants-reveal-new-details-texas-county-double-murder-case/ 5/21/24 TEXAS COUNTY, Okla. (KFDA) - NewsChannel 10 obtained over a dozen search warrants related to the investigation of two Kansas women’s deaths. Documents reveal the bodies of...

www.websleuths.com

New: MEDIA ONLY THREAD

@PommyMommy

 

[Megnut]

Authorities have not revealed what exactly caused Butler and Kelley's deaths, but warrants noted that the scene around their car showed "evidence of a severe injury," with blood left behind on the road

Missing womens' bodies found buried on farm property linked to grandma accused in complex murder plan, documents show

Court documents reveal new details about the murders of Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley in rural Oklahoma earlier this year.

www.cbsnews.com

Inside Cora and Cole Twombly’s truck, cops find a Taurus 380 handgun with a full magazine of hollow point ammunition and a live round in the chamber, stun guns, cat litter used for liquid absorption of trace evidence, biological/DNA evidence, digital photos, special scans, and all other evidence of the crime of murder

KANSAS MOMS’ BODIES STUFFED IN ICE CHEST, BURIED IN COW PASTURE, BLOODY CLOTHES, TASER, DUCT TAPE

CRIME Stories with Nancy Grace

www.crimeonline.com

RBBM (Regarding the quoted SW not the OP)

Hopefully this can settle the question, whether those items were sought or seized:

The last item in the series -- "all other evidence of the crime of murder" -- it's logical they'd be looking for that, it's not possible to have found "all other evidence"!

Moreover, items like "DNA evidence" -- that requires additional testing, sequencing, analysis -- chains of custody, labs and experts, they wouldn't necessarily know the evidentiary value of items seized until after testing could confirm it!

IMHO that can only be a list of items LE was searching for.

It's the SEIZED list which will tell us what LE found once they executed the warrant.

JMO

 

[Odeto BJ]

WRT the gun: I believe the significance may be related to how many rounds were fired and where, not so much who ultimately came into possession of the pistol or disposed of it. LE and the prosecutors will want the most accurate representation of the events that occurred at the site of the abduction and assault to ensure the defendants have minimal opportunity to skate around or otherwise absolve themselves, singularly, from the key components of the crime, and the charges. They have the Kia: I would hypothesize they have checked it for GSR and DNA and blood spatter and similar but if the gun was fired outside the vehicle or otherwise not fired at all, presumably they would not have found any GSR.

I note that the warrant for the Chevy PU did list DNA and Biological material but did not mention GSR. A contemporal thought: The warrant specified a return due no more than 10-days later (warrant signed April 17) and the return listed only 4-items: by their nature none of them represented DNA or blood samples or even dirt samples. If such sampling went on (which I would expect?) the results of any lab test would most likely not be available inside the 10-day window, but in other cases followed here on WS, we have seen such samples listed on a search warrant return. If they did not take any such samples, we conclude that CW did a very good job cleaning the truck? Or is OK somehow different in regard to the contents of a warrant return than other states such that we can expect there was more to the warrant return then listed on April 26 or?