Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[PositiveLight]

Your welcome.

Interesting you mention Burke Ramsey is a constant complainer. I would not be surprised if Patsy Ramsey is a constant complainer as well.

Websleuth Radio Interview Of Tina Meier describing Lori Drew
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

It is at the 20:40 mark. Tina Meier describes Lori Drew, the woman who harassed Megan Meier to suicide in October 2006. She is described as a unhappy and bitter person who complained nonstop. She is in a unhappy marriage, but did not elaborate. Meier states that Drew was very off putting because of her constant complaining. She is also described as intensely sociable and clingy.

Meier's description of Lori Drew describes Burke Ramsey, Patsy Ramsey, Jodi Arias, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Omar Mateen, Micah Johnson, Gavin Long, Vester Flanagan, and 9/11 Terrorists. They are very unhappy and resentful as they are extremely envious of others. You cannot please them no matter what. It is always about them as they are not pleasant people to be around. They are professional victims that rage at the world. They are perpetual victims and feel like society marginalizes them. They blame everyone else, but themselves.

The New Yorker-Friend Game
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/01/21/friend-game

Family Shunned Over MySpace Hoax, Teen's Suicide
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/12/07/family-shunned-over-myspace-hoax-teen-suicide.html

Interview with Blaine Buckles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agwn4Ug7j1c

Interview with Andi Chan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2qBBBvYQOA

Andi Chan was friends with Elliot Rodger. His description is eerily similar to Burke Ramsey and Lori Drew.

This shows that injustice collectors are not rampage killers and terrorists. There are people who kill one or two and show characteristics of injustice collector or grudge holder.

Very interesting! Plus the handwriting analysis. I read somewhere that Patsy totally changed her handwriting afterward and even typed out letters to the schools for example. She was definitely hiding her handwriting after the fact.

 

[lizzyk]

I dont think burke hurt his sister.
I at a young age, like him, avoided my mother when she was being overly dramatic and crying and screaming. That overly emotional situations were overwhelming and I would hide in my room. Burke had no idea that mornings drama was different to his mothers usual melt downs. I do think he sneaked out to try to overhear whats going on during the 911 call....
As for his creepy behaviour on DP, I think he learnt long long ago to disassociate from the entire situation. His way of coping. All these years later his sister is nothing more to him than a character in a movie. He tells his story like he is relaying the plot from like Frozen...
Im sure once he decides to face what he knows about that night it will be very different. But at the moment burke is shutting it out like he has for most of his life.

 

[twomommies107]

Ehh I still think he was at least jealous. From many pictures you can tell she was the center of their attention

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[Vi0l3tt3]

For myself, the whole case changed when Burke admitted that he had snuck downstairs after the house was settled and everyone was presumably in their own bedrooms, and that he 'might' have eaten pineapple with JB.

- Undigested pineapple was found in JB's stomach during the autopsy. This means that the time frame between her eating the pineapple and her death couldn't have been very long at all.
- According to Burke he was the only one awake in the house except for JB.

For Burke to say that he neither heard nor saw anything suspicious (imo) is a complete and utter lie.

Moving on...there's been speculation that he as Asperger's Syndrome. That very well may be true. However, I too have Asperger's, and while every case is not the same I find his lack of empathy and emotion to be insane. Yes, sometimes we who have Asperger's have to look to others to get social clues and to carefully read emotional responses, but if my six year old sister was brutally murdered you can bet that I would react pretty horrifically and be a mess. I cannot chalk up his behavior to 'socially awkward' or simply Asperger's. I think that there is so much more going on with Burke.

 

[HMSHood]

For myself, the whole case changed when Burke admitted that he had snuck downstairs after the house was settled and everyone was presumably in their own bedrooms, and that he 'might' have eaten pineapple with JB.

- Undigested pineapple was found in JB's stomach during the autopsy. This means that the time frame between her eating the pineapple and her death couldn't have been very long at all.
- According to Burke he was the only one awake in the house except for JB.

For Burke to say that he neither heard nor saw anything suspicious (imo) is a complete and utter lie.

Moving on...there's been speculation that he as Asperger's Syndrome. That very well may be true. However, I too have Asperger's, and while every case is not the same I find his lack of empathy and emotion to be insane. Yes, sometimes we who have Asperger's have to look to others to get social clues and to carefully read emotional responses, but if my six year old sister was brutally murdered you can bet that I would react pretty horrifically and be a mess. I cannot chalk up his behavior to 'socially awkward' or simply Asperger's. I think that there is so much more going on with Burke.

My impression is he is flippant if any. He gets bored easily.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

My impression is he is flippant if any. He gets bored easily.

I too got the impression that he gets bored easily. He looked as if he wanted to be anywhere but there. His answers were short and extremely flippant.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I find it also interesting that the pad and pen were placed back where they were kept and the ransom note was left on the back stairs. I don't think a kidnapper would care and (if they had to write a note inside the house) would have left the pad intact with the message. I'm wondering if JR did not know.

Thanks for the reminder about the upcoming shows.

The pen and pad were kept in separate places and were back in their respective places when found.
Also, HMS, Patsy misspelled the word dispel.

 

[HMSHood]

The pen and pad were kept in separate places and were back in their respective places when found.
Also, HMS, Patsy misspelled the word dispel.

Is it in the ransom note?

I find it odd why would someone write a ransom note.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

The flashlight found in the kitchen was clean of prints. (Some have speculated that was used to fracture JB's skull). Even the batteries had no prints. From what I'm reading, neither John or Patsy claimed or disclaimed ownership.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

The flashlight found in the kitchen was clean of prints. (Some have speculated that was used to fracture JB's skull). Even the batteries had no prints. From what I'm reading, neither John or Patsy claimed or disclaimed ownership.

JR said in the Dr. Phil interview that he had used the flashlight to put Burke to bed. Odd, that it was free of prints when he claims he had used it.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Is it in the ransom note?

I find it odd why would someone write a ransom note.

No, it's only in the sample letter. In the ransom note, business is misspelled 'bussiness'. Perhaps that was deliberate, IDK.

" Perfect Murder Perfect Town" mentions that some of the wording of the ransom note included similar dialogue to 3 movies. (Ransom, Speed and I forget the third but can try to look it up and the specifics).

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Also the term 'fat cat' was used by Patsy's mother to describe John and Patsy and their wealth.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Was easier to google search than to paw back through the book so I copied a post from Copied (sounds redundant) dated October 31, 2006 with the link below.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-ramsey/TGHSEN7JIK8J3ET4N

Some movie quotes:
DIRTY HARRY
"If I even think you're being followed, the girl dies."
"If you talk to anyone, I don't care if it's a Pekinese pissing against a lamppost,
the girl dies."
"... that's the end of the game. The girl dies."
"Now listen to me carefully."
"Now listen. Listen very carefully."
"It sounds like you had a good rest. You'll need it."

RANSOM
"Do not involve the police or the FBI. If you do, I will kill him."
"Do not inform the media or I will kill him."
"No tracking devices in the money or the cases or I will kill him."

SPEED
"You know that I'm on top of you. Do not attempt to grow a brain."

 

[minazoe]

Personally imho I don't think the evidence that has been released to the public has shown that JR was involved before the Ransom note/911 debacle. I think he only became aware of the crime as he read the full ransom note and realized he recognized the handwriting. The cops arrived before much could be discussed and he snuck away during his first search to find her body. Found it in the wine cellar, probably had a complete meltdown before returning upstairs to the rest of the friends and cops and wife. LA did comment that his demeanor changed after a certain point and I have read he started drinking at around the same time as his first search. I can't blame him either. I do feel though that he covered up the crime after the fact and I doubt he even knew which person killed her until they were alone and had some privacy. I think they also snuck out some key evidence in possible bags of clothes when they left the home such as the duct tape roll.


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This is brilliant, I don't know if it's true but it falls together with how things happened and explains how he finds a body he is supposed to be covering up for in the they all knew scenario.

 

[Boodles]

JR said in the Dr. Phil interview that he had used the flashlight to put Burke to bed. Odd, that it was free of prints when he claims he had used it.

bbm. No, JR did not say that.

Dr Phil said "I think your dad said he used...flashlight..." JR has not said this himself in anything that has been published (at least so far).

 

[mrseeker]

For myself, the whole case changed when Burke admitted that he had snuck downstairs after the house was settled and everyone was presumably in their own bedrooms, and that he 'might' have eaten pineapple with JB.

- Undigested pineapple was found in JB's stomach during the autopsy. This means that the time frame between her eating the pineapple and her death couldn't have been very long at all.
- According to Burke he was the only one awake in the house except for JB.

For Burke to say that he neither heard nor saw anything suspicious (imo) is a complete and utter lie.

Moving on...there's been speculation that he as Asperger's Syndrome. That very well may be true. However, I too have Asperger's, and while every case is not the same I find his lack of empathy and emotion to be insane. Yes, sometimes we who have Asperger's have to look to others to get social clues and to carefully read emotional responses, but if my six year old sister was brutally murdered you can bet that I would react pretty horrifically and be a mess. I cannot chalk up his behavior to 'socially awkward' or simply Asperger's. I think that there is so much more going on with Burke.

If Burke really went downstairs that would be extraordinary. How was DP's followup questions? That really tightens up the timeline if the crime is committed after Burke returns to bed.

This got me thinking that he has never said anything like that before. I wonder if he is just trying to help old dad with the flashlight issue.

I went back to John Douglas's book "The Cases that Haunt Us" and found this on page 377.

"Both parents remembered leaving the Whites' house about 8:30 in the evening...and returning home shortly after 9:00. JonBenet fell asleep in the car, and John carried her into the house and upstairs to her room, where Patsy got her ready for bed. They said she did not wake up during any of this. John then went to attend to Burke, but the boy insisted on completing assembly of a Christmas toy. By the time John put him to bed and came up to his own bedroom....Patsy was already in bed."

So does Burke just not remember Dad was up with him?

 

[otg]

(bbm)

Thanks for the prompt reply!

I still don't understand, though. JR and PR denied molestation? I thought that fact was medically proven/concrete. Much like her head wound. JBR sustained a cranial fracture on the right side of her skull; JBR had been garroted, and JBR had been the victim of previous sexual abuse. In a case where there is so much speculation, I thought these facts were beyond doubt.

Also: the Nedra quote is one of the most disturbing things I've ever read! "A little bit molested"?!?!? What the actual f*ck? Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: Grandmother of the YEAR!

20 years later, my heart still hurts for that poor baby.

I know that bolded line has been repeated so many times that most people just accept it as fact. Actually though, it comes from what someone remembers hearing on Geraldo that was misquoted and repeated over and over again. Here's what Nedra actually said in its entirety as written in PMPT:

On September 25, Geraldo Rivera, who had been pursuing the thesis that JonBenét’s killer must be a member of the Ramsey family, hosted “The Ramseys Fight Back” on his daytime TV show. Jennifer Kay, a producer for Rivera’s show, had persuaded Nedra Paugh, Patsy’s mother, to give an impromptu interview from her home in Roswell, Georgia.

“Well, every day was Christmas to JonBenét,” Nedra said. She sat slumped in a chair, a defeated woman, her heartbreak palpable. “She [JonBenét] had a wonderful life. I often looked at her and Burke as well and thought how wonderful life had been to them. She was beautiful. She was gracious, intelligent, loved life, loved her friends, loved animals. She loved everything. And that was taken away by a thief in the night as she slept. Now she is in heaven, and I’m sure she’s a very good angel.”

When Nedra mentioned the crime, it was in a string of half-completed thoughts and seeming nonsequiturs: “I didn’t know that she had been mole…molested to some extent and hit on the head. I didn’t know that. And somehow I hoped that she had died very quickly, and I think that she did. I…I really do believe that whoever has done this strangled her, because I’m sure that she put up a tremendous fight. Although she had tape on her mouth, she couldn’t scream. But I knew she had fought.

“To think that a perfectly healthy, happy child, sleeping in her bed on Christmas Day, dreaming, as the story says, of sugar plum buds—and for someone to kill and murder, molest, and then, if that isn’t enough, strike her on the head, is something—it’s just more, because if that hadn’t happened, she would be well and alive, making a contribution to the world.”
​

 

[Lamima]

My impression is he is flippant if any. He gets bored easily.

I too got the impression that he gets bored easily. He looked as if he wanted to be anywhere but there. His answers were short and extremely flippant.

He has that affluenza thing maybe. Reminds me a bit of Van Der Sloot (also Robert Chambers).

 

[PositiveLight]

(bbm)
I know that bolded line has been repeated so many times that most people just accept it as fact. Actually though, it comes from what someone remembers hearing on Geraldo that was misquoted and repeated over and over again. Here's what Nedra actually said in its entirety as written in PMPT:

On September 25, Geraldo Rivera, who had been pursuing the thesis that JonBenét’s killer must be a member of the Ramsey family, hosted “The Ramseys Fight Back” on his daytime TV show. Jennifer Kay, a producer for Rivera’s show, had persuaded Nedra Paugh, Patsy’s mother, to give an impromptu interview from her home in Roswell, Georgia.

“Well, every day was Christmas to JonBenét,” Nedra said. She sat slumped in a chair, a defeated woman, her heartbreak palpable. “She [JonBenét] had a wonderful life. I often looked at her and Burke as well and thought how wonderful life had been to them. She was beautiful. She was gracious, intelligent, loved life, loved her friends, loved animals. She loved everything. And that was taken away by a thief in the night as she slept. Now she is in heaven, and I’m sure she’s a very good angel.”

When Nedra mentioned the crime, it was in a string of half-completed thoughts and seeming nonsequiturs: “I didn’t know that she had been mole…molested to some extent and hit on the head. I didn’t know that. And somehow I hoped that she had died very quickly, and I think that she did. I…I really do believe that whoever has done this strangled her, because I’m sure that she put up a tremendous fight. Although she had tape on her mouth, she couldn’t scream. But I knew she had fought.

“To think that a perfectly healthy, happy child, sleeping in her bed on Christmas Day, dreaming, as the story says, of sugar plum buds—and for someone to kill and murder, molest, and then, if that isn’t enough, strike her on the head, is something—it’s just more, because if that hadn’t happened, she would be well and alive, making a contribution to the world.”
​

You know, this is the first I have heard of this. But my first reaction was.... sounds just like what a southern antiquated parent would say. Let's not let anyone know of our hidden skeletons! Molested is molested. There is no molested a little bit or to an extent. Why did she minimize it so? If a real intruder did this crime, I would be extremely upset about this. Definitely not minimizing it! :facepalm:
I also think that she slept in JBR's bedroom during PR chemo for a reason. She knew something was up.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

You know, this is the first I have heard of this. But my first reaction was.... sounds just like what a southern antiquated parent would say. Let's not let anyone know of our hidden skeletons! Molested is molested. There is no molested a little bit or to an extent. Why did she minimize it so? If a real intruder did this crime, I would be extremely upset about this. Definitely not minimizing it! :facepalm:
I also think that she slept in JBR's bedroom during PR chemo for a reason. She knew something was up.

I think that the family still tried to keep up appearances. Stuff those skeletons into the closet and triple lock the door. I would think that in the case of JB, 'sexually assaulted' would be a better term than 'molested to some extent'. What happened to JB that night certainly wasn't something that should be minimized. The sexual assault alone was horrific. I just don't understand this family. If this had happened to my child I would do everything within my power to find who did it and make them pay to the fullest extent of the law. I would leave no stone unturned. I would hound the police. I would do 100+ interviews with the police if need be. I would never give up, and I certainly wouldn't casually say (as JR did on DP) 'this will be my last interview'. Nedra always struck me as a little odd too.