The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[andreww]

Where was JR attempting to go when he tried to get a plane? where was he for the 1.5 hours he "disappeared" the morning the body was found?

It has been widely speculated that John was not in on this charade until later that morning. Some think that it was Patsy who staged the kidnapping, and that John, although suspicious, played along. It is theorized that John searched and found JBRs body, possibly hidden, and moved it to the WC. Its at this point that his cordial behaviour changes. its also interesting to note that it is during this period of time that he tells his older children that JB was found.

 

[reintarnation]

I think too much has been made of the reluctance of neighbors and friends to talk to the media. If you think about it, what would they have to say if they did? They weren't witnesses. They aren't the Ramseys' confessors, and they have no sectet evidence in their possession. Anything they could add would be pure speculation (be in in favor of or against the Ramseys). If your neighbor's child turned up dead would you be running to the media with speculation and accusation? I think the vast majority of us would want to stay in the background and let the justice system do its job.

In Kolar's book in (I believe) Part Four, he details that a friend - I believe it was Ms Stine? - overheard Burke chatting with her son about how JBR was strangled, and the timing was before Kolar expected the Ramseys would have been privvy to those details. She was disturbed by the tone and content of the conversation, but when questioned about it again, she denied it or wouldn't speak or something to the effect.

I agree with your logic here, Schuby, but I do think that this is an extremely unique case where testimony from those who knew the family best can provide tremendous insight.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It's a shame that the family don't put all this effort into finding the "real killer" , instead of threatening shows that are trying to shed light on the case.

Anybody would think the family had something to hide

The Ramseys have always been far more concerned with preserving their "perfect family" image than in solving the case of JonBenet's murder. :stormingmad:

 

[johnjay]

He did shed some light on why the doc was cut from 6 hours to 4. He said that he threatened CBS that if Kolar even insinuated that Burke did it, he was suing.

I said "because we can't have the police chief saying what he thinks can we?". Thats when I was blocked.

CBS already "insinuated" that Burke did it. Lin Wood's tweets mean nothing.

 

[andreww]

It's a shame that the family don't put all this effort into finding the "real killer" , instead of threatening shows that are trying to shed light on the case.

Anybody would think the family had something to hide

At one point the Rs started a charity that collected funds to help find JBRs killer. Turns out they used the proceeds to finance lawsuits against anybody that spoke against them.

 

[reintarnation]

It's a shame that the family don't put all this effort into finding the "real killer" , instead of threatening shows that are trying to shed light on the case.

Anybody would think the family had something to hide

True that! Your comment reminded me of an interesting quote from the interview PR and JR did with Barbara Walters in 2000 (copied below). It's really quite chilling when you reflect on their phrasing in interviews. It is sometimes obvious and sometimes subtle, but never what you expect to hear from grieving parents who are searching for their killer of their baby.

[SIZE=-1]John Ramsey: "Well I don't consider the Boulder police experts in homicides."
Patsy Ramsey: "The Boulder police would like us to go away. They would like to just close the books on it, pretend that none of it ever happened. But we are not going away. We are going to be their worst nightmare. Until the day we die we'll be looking for the person that murdered our daughter."[/SIZE]

 

[andreww]

CBS already "insinuated" that Burke did it. Lin Wood's tweets mean nothing.

I don't think they have. If you read between the lines, yes, but nobody has said anything and nobody will. As to whether they will name the suspect? Wont happen, read the disclaimer at the end of the show.

 

[tbum]

The findings you referenced from the autopsy were ruled out as semen or other bodily fluids. I forget the exact name of how it was described after testing/analysis of the sample. I don't think the origin was ever conclusively determined, but it is possibly residue from a wipe used to clean JBR.

As for the practice RNs, I know there were pages missing from the writing pad and that a page starting "Dear Mr. and Mrs. I" was found in the pad. Below is a link to A Candy Rose website (excellent resource, btw), that details what was found on the writing pad.

http://www.acandyrose.com/04112000thomas-pg73-74.htm

This is my first post regarding JBR and I wanted to offer a possible theory on the "sloppy" writing on the RN. What if the individual sheets of paper were placed on a rough surface, such as a concrete floor, while the author was writing the note? That would definitely cause the squiggly type of lines that are evident on the RN. IMO

 

[reintarnation]

At one point the Rs started a charity that collected funds to help find JBRs killer. Turns out they used the proceeds to finance lawsuits against anybody that spoke against them.

Really??? I knew about the charity but not how the funds are used. It's not surprising if that's the case.

 

[reintarnation]

This is my first post regarding JBR and I wanted to offer a possible theory on the "sloppy" writing on the RN. What if the individual sheets of paper were placed on a rough surface, such as a concrete floor, while the author was writing the note? That would definitely cause the squiggly type of lines that are evident on the RN. IMO

Good thought! It's also been surmised that it was written in someone's non-dominant hand.

 

[Luckymanuh]

Responded politely to a couple of Lin Woods tweets and within seconds got this...

View attachment 101646

Sorry that is hysterical! LW can't handle the heat but he can dish it out!

 

[zencompass]

Hasn't Lin Wood already stated he would sue anyone who accused any of the Ramseys as being the murderer of JonBenet? Didn't he sue the National Enquirer and they have loads of money too. I would be very surprised in LW doesn't sue if the CBS show specifically names someone by their name. LW doesn't strike me as the type of lawyer that would be afraid of anyone no matter how much money they may have.

If this is concrete evidence of guilt on Burke's part why doesn't the current DA come out and state they have the irrefutable evidence the killer was Burke Ramsey and the case will be closed due to his age at the time of JonBenet's murder? Why keep stating the case remains open but remains unsolved?

Why keep the case open? Why keep the male DNA profile in CODIS if the DA has evidence this unknown male had nothing to do with JonBenet's murder?

I know everyone now seems convinced they are going to say it was Burke. They have two options opening imo. 1) Patsy Ramsey who is now deceased and cant be prosecuted from the grave or 2) they can pick Burke since he was 9 at the time and cant be prosecuted because of his age at the time.

It will be interesting what the current DA does with this show for surely they have shared the findings with the DA.

If they have evidence of who the killer really is then the DA needs to end this by saying who the suspect is and that they cant be prosecuted due to yada, yada, yada.. There is no reason under the sun to keep this case open if they have evidence proving who the killer was.

Hi Oceanblueeyes !

Good to see you posting on this thread!

Great questions about the D.A. !

I came across the following article written by Stanley Garnett, present D.A. of Boulder:

http://www.dailycamera.com/guest-opinions/ci_24389428/stan-garnett-boulder-district-attorney-jonbenet-ramsey-case

I found his paragraph from his article very interesting. It answers my question of why Mary Lacy sent a letter to the Ramseys stating that they are
"exonerated". This fact would be true, not by any evidence, but solely because they were never charged and more importantly - this case never
went to court.

Here is Stanley Garnett's paragraph:
"My, or my staff's view of what the evidence in the Ramsey case proves will only be stated in open court if a case is ever filed. In the meantime, everyone, including the Ramsey family, is entitled to the full presumption of innocence."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's a shame that the family don't put all this effort into finding the "real killer" , instead of threatening shows that are trying to shed light on the case.

Anybody would think the family had something to hide

How would they be able to find her killer? Wasn't the FBI also involved. They did hire a private investigator, didn't they? Unless there is irrefutable evidence shown for the first time in the CBS docu then no one including police agencies has been able to solve this case in 20 years.

Most parents that I have seen of murdered children don't try to find the killer of their child. They may still try to locate their bodies if they are still missing by doing searches like Sierra Lamar's family has done. In most of the cases I have read of parents who's child has been murdered and the killer is not caught yet rely on the police to find the murderer.

 

[Schuby]

this is an extremely unique case where testimony from those who knew the family best can provide tremendous insight.

It is also extremely unique in terms of sensational reporting and public interest. No normal person wants to turn their life into a media circus so that readers of The National Inquiter can get a little more insight.

 

[Frigga]

Bbm.
1. One possible theory is that she was dying and they thought she was suffering and wanted to stop it. They couldn't bring themselves to use their hands, thus the garrote, and from behind so as not to see. (This is so sickening to write.)

2. I saw Lin Woods' tweets and agree with you. He really seems almost unstable. He reminds me of someone, but I can't quite place it. That said, he has been highly effective at keeping the R's from being held responsible and at getting them compensated via lawsuits.

That explanation makes no sense to me to think they didn't want to 'use their hands' to strangle JB but they wanted to put her out of her misery- yet a garrote was somehow more palatable.

They didn't use their hands because it would have left finger marks AND most likely DNA if they had. It was PR fibers found on the chord IIRC.

If Burke is a psychopath (I happen to think he is) and they were hiding, covering or protecting that fact by 'garroting' their baby girl then either PR and or JR were in some sort of psychotic break themselves.

Who do you think jabbed the child's vagina that night and why?

 

[questfortrue]

Maybe so but scientific results can be repeated and get the same results each time. If not, something is yet missing. Glass and a human skull and tissue are totally unrelated.

If the recreated fracture only ran from impact point to the posterior base of the skull and did not run forward from the impact point then I have some doubts. :shame:


I also assume that was a synthetic wig and not human hair. That makes a difference too. So does the fact as mentioned above that there was no "brain" inside that skull. I also trust otg's observation that the displaced area is cylindrical and not rectangle.

But we'll see what they come up with.

I agree and believe it's worth considering another element of their behavior.

As I’ve mentioned I don’t see the flashlight causing an elliptical comminuted depression. However, veering from the forensic for a moment, I want to mention something psychological. This is a reference to behavior I’ve witnessed many times, not just in the course of their interviews with LE but also within their interviews with TV news folks. (If anyone wants to do a comparison of these interviews, many of the TV transcripts are still available on ffj, ws and acr.) Of course, what I wish to describe has been seen by many here, certainly it’s familiar to long-time sleuths like otg and cynic. It’s the manner in which PR and JR in particular change the goal posts, shift their stories.

There is a suggestion from Dr. P that JR put BR to bed with a flashlight. Now if that isn’t strange enough, then BR volunteers that he snuck downstairs to play with a toy. Assuming he went down the front stairs to the living room, one might expect he snuck downstairs with a flashlight, the one which JR used to put him to bed.

Finding JR’s or BR’s tDNA on the flashlight doesn’t really mean much, since they covered why it could have been used - to put BR to bed or maybe sneak downstairs to play. I propose another reason for this flashlight discussion. For me the flashlight talk simply sounds like the typical R manner of throwing misleading red herrings over reality.

Since several neighbors noticed a difference in the lighting both outside the home and inside some of the rooms which traditionally were lit during the night, it is very likely the flashlight was used to move around the home without turning on overhead lights. Someone, likely JR, wipes it down afterwards and leaves it atop a counter. He later fails to recognize it and says he didn’t use his flashlight recently. Imo, JR’s plan was to suggest the flashlight belonged to an intruder. He does this with the window downstairs and PR and JR also use old pry marks on the door jamb to insinuate an intruder. (Their lawyers even gave a photo of the old door damage to the Rocky Mt. News with a quote: "The material released today demonstrates substantial evidence of an intruder." ) LHP and friend BF knew this was a ruse; both had noticed the damage to the door jamb in months prior.

Well, it didn’t work to attribute the flashlight to the intruder. So then it becomes an item used to put BR to bed. Wait a minute, BR used it to sneak downstairs. For those and other instances of shifting stories it’s my belief JR and BR are sharing “duper’s delight” over the fact that once again folks are chasing one of the red herrings in the case.

Btw, Spitz is on record in IRMI as saying that the (head) damage could have been caused by the flashlight— but it could also have been caused by other things.

 

[reintarnation]

Unless there is irrefutable evidence shown for the first time in the CBS docu then no one including police agencies has been able to solve this case in 20 years.

I think in this case it is critical to differentiate between solving the case and prosecuting it.

 

[margarita25]

How neat! Didn't he do a Reddit AMA? Maybe he'd be willing to do a WS interview, too!

(Yes, I was just going to mention that he did say on Reddit feel free to ask any questions...that would be Tricia's deal, to extend the invitation...

I'm not the type to bug anyone or infringe upon their privacy, and I don't want to seem like a looney tabloid person, so if the opportunity arises via neighbor small talk, maybe I'll just mention I've been following the case (like everyone in the world) and should he ever feel like talking about it over wine I'd be thrilled... (I know they like red wine). (That's lame, why would he want to talk to me lol, he'll probably be like "just read my book" hahahaha). Actually I don't think he likes us anyway bc the dogs are loud. LOL.)

 

[otg]

(bbm)

Ask and you shall receive!

The attached image is available here:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/1stfloor.gif.

PR made the call in the kitchen near the cup of pens used to write the RN. JR supposedly read the note spread out on the floor in that same area with light from the adjoining hallway between that spot and where the writing pad was located. Otherwise the important items are detailed on this map.

The other photo is of the kitchen where the call was placed. The phone would be located in the right foreground (area not visible in this photo).

They have good maps of the other floors of the home too:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/basement.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/2ndfloor.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/3rdfloor.gif

Patsy claimed to have made the 911 call from that phone. I still question how a person fails to hang up a wall phone without the receiver falling to the counter. There was another phone (identical model) in the basement that was used as a desktop phone. I think that that was where the 911 call was made from with all three (four actually) Ramseys present after they had finished altering and staging the crime scene. (Just something to consider.)

Also, their claim about John reading the RN on the floor (in his underwear yet) wasn't necessary since he already knew what Patsy had written.

 

[asyousay]

How would they be able to find her killer? Wasn't the FBI also involved. They did hire a private investigator, didn't they? Unless there is irrefutable evidence shown for the first time in the CBS docu then no one including police agencies has been able to solve this case in 20 years.

Most parents that I have seen of murdered children don't try to find the killer of their child. They may still try to locate their bodies if they are still missing by doing searches like Sierra Lamar's family has done. In most of the cases I have read of parents who's child has been murdered and the killer is not caught yet rely on the police to find the murderer.

It's solved but they have not been able to arrest anybody and never will IMO

And they have stone walled the police from the get go , it's always been about them not there murdered child IMO