Trial - Ross Harris #6

[arkansasmimi]

Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
RBBM, JMHO this is not correct. More than 1 or 2. And those in the majority (being the opposite of minority) most of those that I have read their comments, through these 6 threads and 1 side bar thread. The majority of those, have had a "guilty" before the first witness testified and have not changed their opinion through out the whole States case. How can one make a make an educated opinion on facts of a case without even hearing any? I for one as I many here are in same opinion, we are fine being in the minority. We are trying to be objective. There are many in the minority who are open minded and have backed off on some opinions as testimony was heard, but most of them still have a guilt. I respect their opinion, just don't see how could knowing some of the reasons they have guilt has been disproved. Some, just are not going to change their minds regardless. State has burnden of proof and as of yet, have not proved beyond a reasonable doubt to me. Its ok, I am not one of the 12 that will make the ultimate decision. And on the same token neither are any of the others here on the jury (Lawd I pray not any ways). Unsure why some watch that already have guilty, and sentenced. Don't get that part. JMHO
ETA: I speak only for myself but can read others post to form my opinion of what theirs appears to be from reading multiple posts. JMHO

I have thought guilty from the minute the story broke. I still can't fathom forgetting your child in a car (or even something as simple as not sending a requested lunch along for an elementary field trip, but I see that happen all the time), but I am an older parent who tried for many, many years to be blessed with a baby and so there is nothing more important to me than my children. I don't want/need breaks or escapes. They are my world. But not every parent is like I am. Some could be, I guess, quite possibly capable of being so self centered and egotistical that they can block out the very one who should be their main focus. I will never understand how he forgot that precious child, but if I'm being honest, I could not vote guilty anymore.

RBBM.
PLEASE do not take this as being snarky or rude. Totally not meant to be. Honest question. Do you ever go out with friends without your child(ren) Shopping? Movie? anywhere for leisure or me time? Or are you what I have seen referred to as a helicopter parent hoovering over their child 24/7? Everyone needs "me" time. That is being honest. And sometimes being a parent it may just be being able to shut the bathroom door for alone time. It is not and should not even be thought of as selfish to need that time alone. JMHO people that are the helicopter type parents, have issues of their own. (*we all have issues but hope I making sense). No one should be made feel like they are horrible parent for needing "me time" ** and I am not referring to Sexting.

Shoot, think of all the time people are looking at their devices (phones, computers. laptops. tablets, tv) following this trial and posting/reading on WS about it or any other thread. Where are any of ya'll parents with small children? I have 2 dogs and grown children and grand children.. Responsibilities that I do take care of, but also take time to do something I enjoy. Oops what about FB or twitter? Texting? when your children are around. See, I just don't like the blanket cover. I am good and someone else who doesn't fit my normal are wrong. That not reality JMHO.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Self deleted. Lol

After rereading my post.

I wanted to saran wrap myself . Lol

 

[DeDee]

I've never said that RH is not guilty of all of the charges against him. I have said that I don't feel that the unrelated crimes should be tried at the same trial.

He's definitely guilty of the sexual crimes against children/minors. JMO

I'd agree except JRH is sexting while he's caring for his child while inside a moving vehicle. JRH became otherwise preoccupied to the extent that he left his little boy unattended after strapping Cooper into his carseat for a ride to school.

If JRH did not sext that day, it should not be excluded but, the sexting, et al, is central to JRHs motives as well as his ED with LT. His behavior every minute of that fateful day is important to scrutinize b/c that's another minute Cooper was suffering. The sexting was central to Ross' state of mind during the crime so it must be admitted for the jury's consideration.

Does JRHs sexting voice play thru his SUV's radio speakers so that Cooper was able to hear his daddy and his paramour sexting, humm, hands free? I am feeling ill about level of evil this required. Christian behavior? No. Ross is a Heretic.

 

[PaperDoll]

He knew he was being recorded and watched in real time. Why would he essentially confess out loud? And more to the point, don't you think Stoddard would have mentioned it if he thought he heard a confession by RH?

Again, it's how one interprets that. I interpreted it the way I mentioned, that was my first reaction to him saying that. Stoddard may not have or maybe let it slip by, I don't know. If the jurors heard it, they may have their own interpretation as well. How do we know what Ross meant by it? We don't, but he did say it. As far as the cameras, yes, he knew they were there and I believe he was acting out. He sounded fake to me.. again, that is how I viewed it. Someone else may not and that's ok.

 

[Hope4More]

It seems that both LH and lawyers on both sides were emphasizing how RH cared about how he was perceived. So, yes, he could have left his wife and child, but how would that have made him look? It would have shone a very ugly light on him, especially if his sexting and other unsavory behaviors had come out. Evidence from several sources, including LH, makes it seem like such an outcome would make him hesitate.

Was he afraid she would take Cooper? I don't doubt that is what LH believes, but do we have any evidence other than her word that it was so? His actions would make it seem like he was willing to risk his marriage and access to his son in order to cheat. If he was really afraid of losing Cooper, wouldn't he have made some attempt to stop? Or hide his infidelities more carefully? I don't know that we have any evidence of that.

While I hate to think about it, I agree with many of the others that, if RH planned it, RH thought he would be considered a victim rather than a suspect. Today, yes, we know that charges are filed in these cases about half the time, but did he? I think back to before this case and I think I assumed that most cases were considered accidents and no charges were filed. I know now that I was wrong, but I can see RH assuming, based on the cases we know he was aware of, that he would be free of his responsibilities without being the labelled the cheating husband. There is evidence for this: As we know, a petition had begun fundraising and raised quite a bit of money and support for RH. So, initially, most people, especially those he knew, were not judging him but supporting him. Would those same people have supported him in a divorce? In leaving a very young son? It is likely that they would not.

So while I deeply sympathize with LH, her testimony didn't really change anything for me. All her statements were from her deeply involved and emotional perspective, so her defense, while understandable, was not convincing to me. I can see why she wouldn't want to think that RH could be capable, after already learning all of the other awful things he was definitely capable of, and so either tries to believe or truly believes he could not have deliberately hurt their son. Of course, that doesn't make it so, But, as always, we'll have to see what the jury thinks.

Just to point out one thing. The community rallied around Ross not because they saw him as a "victim" for being responsible for his son's death, but because they believed LE had arrested and charged Ross without any evidence it wasn't an accident.

I somehow doubt Ross killed Cooper on purpose to look like a victim after LE charged him with murder. Jmo

 

[Bc007]

I feel like LH was good on direct. I think the videos and pictures showed a happy and excited little family unit and it's a stark contrast to the fractured reality they live now. I heard that several jurors were crying during her testimony and the ones who weren't were all engaged. Her testimony let the jurors get to know Cooper as well as all of them as a family. Cross... was a slightly different story. She didn't remember stuff on direct at times but it looked bad on cross. That said, the defense has done an amazing job at driving home the fact that they suspected them so quickly so she was untrusting of the state. Jury is left to wonder if she has reason to be. I kept think she was trying to be careful not to respond to the questions as they were being phrased. She tried to respond and have the control over the narritive and not have words twisted. They will clear some of this up on redirect. All in all I think if any of the jurors who sat in the room with her felt connected to what she was saying, some of these issues will be forgiven. No worse than the lies that were spewed by state's key whitness and lead detective.

Anyone else catch the prosecutor almost refer to 6/18 as the " day of the accident" to LH!!!?? He caught himself just in time but it was not lost on me! It wasn't on cross- it was at the point where they were allowed to confirm something or other with her during the defense's direct questioning. I think the jury was in though.

 

[Hope4More]

Less is more. After Leanna's testimony today, I can believe the DT will only have 2 more witnesses- Dr. A and Dr. D, and will only recall the ME if they think they need to revisit the flawed hot car recreation to emphasize the unlikelyhood Cooper could still have been alive at 12:45 (unlikely they will, imo).

 

[ScotAng]

I am trying to watch the prosecution cross of her from this afternoon......does she still wear glasses??? He has a sheet of texts right in front of her and it is as if she can't read it....I guess I am wanting this to hurry along.......

As I can't link, this might be considered rumour. A person claiming to be friends with RH's brother and s-i-l posts in a private group. This (allegedly) same person posted a few things on the Fox Atlanta comments section around first week of the trial. Coincidence or not, their posts were removed and comments disabled at the same time the live feed was cut .

On Saturday evening they claimed Leanna would be testifying Monday. They mentioned she sometimes wears, and would be wearing, contacts at the trial. I've no way of confirming the authenticity of this person. I thought she was straining to see because of the angle Boring was holding papers. I noticed her rubbing at the side of one eye, not sure if you'd do that wearing contacts in case it fell out.

Mods, if not allowed, delete. Thanks.

 

[minor4th]

And just to be fair there are several in the minority that from day one argued for Ross Harris against all odds. He is to be excused for everything he did that fateful June morning. He has been wronged and nothing or nobody will change those minds.

Sometimes I think those few like the limelight being shown on them during discussions. For some reason that's pleasing.

But to me if I see a bird that walks like a Duck, swims like a Duck and quacks like a Duck then it MUST be a Duck!

I have literally not seen a single post that would defend Ross against all odds or excuse everything he did that day.

There are no Ross Harris fans here that I've noticed.

There are many, however, who believe the State failed to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. That includes me, and I came into this thinking he purposely murdered his child.

 

[Bc007]

Less is more. After Leanna's testimony today, I can believe the DT will only have 2 more witnesses- Dr. A and Dr. D, and will only recall the ME if they think they need to revisit the flawed hot car recreation to emphasize the unlikelyhood Cooper could still have been alive at 12:45 (unlikely they will, imo).

I think you may be right! That said I think the state will keep her most of the day tomorrow. Personally I think they are hoping to get a conviction for Ross and have her say something that would allow to charge her somehow. Maybe like a mastermind situation like Sniederman

 

[minor4th]

Oh. Ok. So what time did he exit the building and what time was his car seen making a turn at the intersection, if that was captured, and what time was his car seen arriving at work? Do we just have walking out the building and arriving at work? Do we know how long I takes to drive that route? I know there's been evidence but I can't recall and there's no timeline here anywhere.

You are going to drive yourself nuts trying to figure this out (like I did a couple of days ago). The state presented vague information about this, and it's impossible to pin down exactly when these things happened - and as far as I can tell, he texted at 9:15 and again at 9:24, but it's unclear if there was other phone activity during that time. It's also unclear whether the CFA video clock was in sync with Ross' cell phone clock or the Home Depot video clock.

 

[Hope4More]

I think you may be right! That said I think the state will keep her most of the day tomorrow. Personally I think they are hoping to get a conviction for Ross and have her say something that would allow to charge her somehow. Maybe like a mastermind situation like Sniederman

If they're thinking that, imo they are seriously underestimating Leanna's ability to hold her own and then some.

 

[katydid23]

We can't know for sure... Maybe he did do it on purpose. But there is no way the state have proven that beyond a reasonable doubt. You can feel that someone did something, but without the evidence a jury can not convict them. :moo:

Finally....we are in full agreement...:wink:

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think you may be right! That said I think the state will keep her most of the day tomorrow. Personally I think they are hoping to get a conviction for Ross and have her say something that would allow to charge her somehow. Maybe like a mastermind situation like Sniederman

Lol. So you think they want to catch her for being complicit since she obviously knew that Ross hears the voices of Barry White and Olivia Newton-John.

Just kidding. I'm still mad about Rustys case. May Mrs.Schneiderman get her due soon.

Jmo.

 

[Hope4More]

You are going to drive yourself nuts trying to figure this out (like I did a couple of days ago). The state presented vague information about this, and it's impossible to pin down exactly when these things happened - and as far as I can tell, he texted at 9:15 and again at 9:24, but it's unclear if there was other phone activity during that time. It's also unclear whether the CFA video clock was in sync with Ross' cell phone clock or the Home Depot video clock.

He did not text between 9:15 and 9:24, and jmo, I think the State would have been happy to present evidence of any phone activity in between, as they could then imply he was being either negligent or reckless by being on the phone as he drove.

Beyond that, he could not have left CFA any earlier than 9:18, as there is video of him shaking hands at the counter, holding Cooper, on his way out. The batch of texts he sent at 9:24 suggest he was stopped at a red light at the intersection. GA Peach says the light could last as long as a couple of minutes, but when I timed it when the videos were being played of the drive, (same time of day?) the light lasted an average of about 15-20 seconds.

And, he pulled into the Treehouse parking lot drive at just under 9:25.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Keep in mind a Grand Jury after hearing the evidence returned an indictment with 8 charges. E I G H T

The Grand Jury indicted Harris on the following charges:

Malice Murder
Felony Murder
Felony Murder
Cruelty to Children in the First Degree
Cruelty to Children in the Second Degree
Criminal Attempt to Commit a Felony, to wit: Sexual Exploitation of Children
Dissemination of harmful Material to Minors
Dissemination of Harmful material to Minors
This is a very bad man.

RBBM,
Keep in mind who testified before the Grand Jury . :thinking: Oh Det Stoddard and unsure which of the other Det. With "evidence" that much has been disputed in trial.

And then there is this on the iPhone5 SW , which stated they wanted to search because of the "research" that RH allegedly told them he searched for. the iPhone5 had internet search capabilities. Fruit of the Poisonous Tree https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

Hope4More http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?318897-TRIAL-Ross-Harris-1&p=12873942#post12873942
From Judge Staley 's ruling on January 26, 2016, denying the defense's Motion to Suppress (evidence from RH's cell phone and computers on the basis it was illegally obtained).

1. RH's cell phone. The DT asserted that LE had improperly seized RH's (warrantless seizure) at the scene. Staley ruled (greatly simplifying the legal arguments) that LE had the right to seize his phone after he had been detained (note-- IMO, that explains why he was detained).

ETA: Staley relied upon Piper's testimony in asserting that RH's response to Piper was chargeable as the misdemeanor of obstructing an officer (though Piper did not make that charge), and thus Piper was justified in seizing his phone as "the instrumentality" of that crime.

2. The DT asserted LE had improperly searched RH's phone before obtaining a search warrant and that the search warrants applied for were in part based on that illegal search. Fruits of the poisonous tree.

Staley ruled that LE's search of the phone before obtaining a warrant- a fact LE conceded to be true- was not in fact illegal. The reasoning she gave was that LE asked RH for the password to his phone (after he had been cuffed and detained, then taken to the station for questioning) and he complied by providing it.

Staley wrote that RH "must have known" that LE would use the password to access/search his phone, and that giving LE the password "implied his consent" to have the phone searched.

2. LE's mistatements/misrepresentations on the search warrants. Staley provided references to GA statutes and citations of GA appellate court rulings to support her ruling that (in essence) it doesn't matter if LE misrepresentated facts, or even if they flat out lied, if the "totality" of what they swore to in the affadavits made an adequate case for probable cause. She found that LE had sufficiently made their case.

(ArkansasMimi-- Staley 's ruling has the complete tick tock , including dates, of LE's computer searches. My source for court rulings, defense/state motions, and a daily summary of trial testimony is the Beth Karas on Crime website. FYI, it's a subcription site, if you're not familiar).
Last edited by Hope4More; 10-17-2016 at 07:58 AM

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[GA_Peach]

I couldn't put my finger on what it was about LH that struck me today, but I finally figured it out. She has always blamed herself for Ross's problems, and Cooper's death and Ross's subsequent indictment are no exceptions. She tries to fix everything for him because she faults herself. It doesn't matter whether she is in fact the problem (she is not), but she believes that she is. When Ross suffered from erectile dysfunction, LH testified that she blamed herself. When Ross was asking for a picture of a woman's *advertiser censored* several years ago, LH blamed herself. When Cooper died, LH likely blamed herself. LH likely blames herself for Ross being in jail. When viewing LH through this lens, her behavior with Ross in the interrogation room makes so much more sense. She was not there as a grieving mother; she was there to save and protect Ross. LH taking the stand is one last chance to save Ross; in her mind, it's the least she could do because (in her mind) she's (at least partly) responsible for what happened.

For the record, I am not stating that LH is criminally responsible. I believe that she blames herself.

 

[katydid23]

What is the exact timeline of when Ross walked out of the CFA and when he drive out of the lot and when he turned to go to work?

There is some confusion about this timeline.

But one thing that really stands out to me is the short time span between the time he pulled out of the CFA parking lot, and the time he reached the street, where he had to decide which way to turn---one way to work, the other to the day care.

It takes 30 to 40 seconds to reach that turn off to make that decision, according to locals who have timed it. I think the jury will have to wrestle with that short time span.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'd agree except JRH is sexting while he's caring for his child while inside a moving vehicle. JRH became otherwise preoccupied to the extent that he left his little boy unattended after strapping Cooper into his carseat for a ride to school.

If JRH did not sext that day, it should not be excluded but, the sexting, et al, is central to JRHs motives as well as his ED with LT. His behavior every minute of that fateful day is important to scrutinize b/c that's another minute Cooper was suffering. The sexting was central to Ross' state of mind during the crime so it must be admitted for the jury's consideration.

Does JRHs sexting voice play thru his SUV's radio speakers so that Cooper was able to hear his daddy and his paramour sexting, humm, hands free? I am feeling ill about level of evil this required. Christian behavior? No. Ross is a Heretic.

But what if instead of texting; He was bidding on ebay items?

Would people still claim malice.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I just finished watching LH's testimony from this afternoon. I am so torn on what to think.

As I saw the pictures and videos of Cooper, I didn't see a genuinely happy family. I saw one man duping two people who depended on him. Ross's dark life was hidden behind the smiles. There was a husband and father who appeared to enjoy being with his family. However it was impossible, despite how much I tried, to not see through the facade. He was a husband who repeatedly cheated on his wife, visited a prostitute, and met up with young girls for a BJ in his car or a quickie on his couch. He was a father who left his child in a car, and as a result, Cooper died. As I watched sweet Cooper in those videos, I could only think about his precious life being cut short. I found myself getting extremely angry with Ross. I kept thinking, "Ross, why didn't you take extra steps to protect Cooper?" I never would have guessed that would have been my reaction in a million years, but it is what it is. I wish that we could know how the jurors reacted to what we saw this afternoon.

I found Leanna to be a mostly sincere witness this morning. I don't think that she came across as rough on cross as some of the posters, but she lost a lot of her shine. IMO it became clear that she was testifying in an attempt to protect Ross. She seemed more interested in protecting Ross than she did in getting the facts straight. Hence, her inability to answer the question that was asked. I almost felt bad for her; she did not want to incriminate Ross in any way. She clearly still loves him, but he never returned those feelings.

Watching LH on the stand has given me much insight into her visit with Ross in the interrogation room. Given LH's personality, I can better understand her actions. Despite Ross's abhorrent behavior, LH has never faltered in her quest to protect Ross.

ETA - This jumped out at me during the LH interview (paraphrasing). It is just after the 3:55 mark in the final WAT video from this afternoon.

CB: Did you know that Ross has seen prostitutes?
LH: I didn't know then.
CB: Do you now know that Ross has seen prostitutes?
LH: Yes, I was told before I came in here.

Is this now something that can be accepted as true?

Not meaning snarky , you know me Peach
Curious what you would have thought about those photos if you hadn't followed this case from time it broke?
What about if there was a friend, an acquaintance or what ever and you thought was a loving family person or insert something you thought well of them about .. then found out that they were an addict of some sort... alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, gambling, embezzlement, *advertiser censored*, having an affair, eating disorder... just about anything. It would change your opinion. Human nature to judge but not want to be judged.

People that do not even know this man are judging what they think they know about his love for his child. Yes hindsight is always 20/20 and I feel sure that LH/LT has beat herself up over things many hours over this. RH has an addiction. A self admitted one it appears. Has had professional therapist. Hasn't been accused of doing anything with anyone in a forced manner. Testimony under oath has provided that.

JMHO, I expect the LEO to follow the Law. I expect them to be held at a high standard, they are put in potential life threatening situations daily. They can change someones life in a moment for ever by not being thorough and factual. You can accuse anyone of anything. In a criminal case State have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the charges. We are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some clearly have LH/LT guilty of stuff not even charged with (but Stoddard has her still as a suspect) in the case of her child who died and his Manner of Death is UNDETERMINED on his filed Death Certificate. This case is so messed up. Even without RH issues that the State trying to say premeditated 2 weeks prior to kill his son. Yet all kinds stuff on electronics. :scared: